mrmojorisin75 Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Haha whatever, fucking hell. Are you sharing the same bed as Neesy this week? I'd love for us to play exciting, attacking, vibrant football that wins us trophies and plaudits. However, I don't think it's going to happen anytime soon. If we're going to have a period of cutting our cloth accordingly, I don't see why we need to make a song and dance about it every time we don't play cutting edge football. Stu, care to expand on the bits in bold, such as why you think we can't play attacking, passing football with the players we have in the squad (regardless of injuries)? Clearly i'm in the "pardew doesn't know how to coach it" camp but if it's something you yearn for, yet still retain some hope for pardew, you must think something else is holding us back again genuine question, not looking for a bite or anything Stu fancy throwing an answer at this, as i said honestly interested in your viewpoint Regardless of injuries? I think there's evidence from last season that we do try and do that when the gameplan calls for it (IMO, any team outside the top 6 at home and the bottom 8 or so away from home). The reasons why this season has been so stop-start has been well discussed (in this very thread) but suffice to say, with no Europa league to interfere with the weekly routine and a better squad (depth and quality) then a decent start will allow Pardew the confidence to gameplan like he did from March-May last season. I think this season has set him back, mentally, as he's having to deal with some of the 'negativity' that comes with a disappointing season. There was a point, Reading (h), where he was in danger of losing a lot of his support in the home crowd but he was man enough to come out and admit he made some mistakes and that he'd learnt from them. The 'purple' players (i.e. first XI) are all but here now: Krul, Santon, MYM, STaylor, Debuchy, Tiote, Cabaye, Gouffran, Sissoko, HBA, Cisse. He's then got the like of Jonas, Marveaux, Haidaira and Anita to push for places and ensure there's not the same level of complacency that we seemed to experience from September-December. With only one, maybe two, games a week we shouldn't suffer the same list of injuries and be forced into chopping and changing. That said, I think he's going to be trying to keep it very tight early on in the season (not too dissimilar to how we began this season) and make us hard to beat - once the players have the confidence and the new season beneath their feet, he's more likely to loosen up and 'gameplan' as above (rigid and disciplined at home to the Euro sides and away to all of the top half; opening up more against the non Euro teams at home and away to the struggling teams). I don't know if 'coaching' the players to attack and pass is one of Pardew's strong points, or something he considers too much; with the flair players we potentially have to pick from, there's nothing to say we can't win games by defending as a unit and breaking with 3/4 individuals (Sissoko and Gouffran have definitely helped us with this). After a player reaches 20/21, how much development can he actually do in terms of tactics or is it mostly experience which is gained at the top level? I don't think Pardew needs to necessarily coach the players on how to attack but we'll benefit from having a stronger squad and a more consistent lineup from Aug-Dec which will give Pardew the confidence to allow the flair players more freedom. so look, again this isn't a dig or anything, but it seems that your answer to "why can't we play attractive, passing football anytime soon?" is the same as mine then, pardew? as for the bold it's not about the individual surely, it's about the team...for example if you dropped mourinho into our training ground monday i think you'd see a fairly rapid turnaround in how we approach games tactically as for the bit in italics you get the feeling they'd just benefit from playing 5-a-side for a chunk of the week, they literally look like they don't know how to pass the ball to each other at times...but this is certainly old ground, i agree....it's just aggravating to me that when you look at our side they seem built to be a possession team yet are obviously being coached not to be Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 the way we limped out in bilbao aswell. he gave us some great times, probably the best football i've witnessed in my time but some people like to make myths from the reality. Do you think that was due to Keegan's tactics or did the players shit themselves and panic ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
loki679 Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 I remember we were 3-2 down against Ferencvaros after the away leg of a european tie all those years ago under Keegan. At SJP he sent out a team that included Gillespie, Ginola, Beardsley, Asprilla, Lee and Ferdinand and tore them to pieces. Pretty much a front 6 putting us on the front foot and getting at them. Night and day in their approaches. What attacking players did we have available on Thursday of that ilk? Plus the back four was a lot better then, and Ferencvaros are no Benfica. You're right, night and day. I probably shouldn't have mentioned KK I just happened to have watched the highlights of that game minutes before posting. It was meant to illustrate the differences in their approach. You could pick a bunch of managers and make the same comparison, Laudrup, Martinez, Adkins, Rodgers etc etc. They set their teams up to attack and try to impose their game on the opposition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 We set up to contain and try to impose our contain on the opposition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flip Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JRandall96 Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Europa League has really proven how little our squad is. We shouldnt of had to play poor Bigi. Need to get some quality players in if we are to do well next season. Not young cheap players. Proper proven players and i must admit we've started doing that already Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 We set up to contain and try to impose our contain on the opposition. well said, sums up pardew101 pretty well Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Europa League has really proven how little our squad is. We shouldnt of had to play poor Bigi. Need to get some quality players in if we are to do well next season. Not young cheap players. Proper proven players and i must admit we've started doing that already It's really not a small squad at this point, particularly in midfield. Out wide and up front we could do with some more options. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JRandall96 Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Europa League has really proven how little our squad is. We shouldnt of had to play poor Bigi. Need to get some quality players in if we are to do well next season. Not young cheap players. Proper proven players and i must admit we've started doing that already It's really not a small squad at this point, particularly in midfield. Out wide and up front we could do with some more options. Small squad in quality? Having to play Bigi in my opinion was ridiculous still a young lad Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Europa League has really proven how little our squad is. We shouldnt of had to play poor Bigi. Need to get some quality players in if we are to do well next season. Not young cheap players. Proper proven players and i must admit we've started doing that already It's really not a small squad at this point, particularly in midfield. Out wide and up front we could do with some more options. Small squad in quality? Having to play Bigi in my opinion was ridiculous still a young lad He played against Man Utd and Arsenal away in the space of 5 days and was arguably one our best player over those games despite the results. Not a problem playing him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Europa League has really proven how little our squad is. We shouldnt of had to play poor Bigi. Need to get some quality players in if we are to do well next season. Not young cheap players. Proper proven players and i must admit we've started doing that already It's really not a small squad at this point, particularly in midfield. Out wide and up front we could do with some more options. Small squad in quality? Having to play Bigi in my opinion was ridiculous still a young lad He didn't have to play Bigi as Marveaux and Perch were on the bench..... as IP said the only real areas we are weak is outwide and upfront, now i might accept the squad was weak before January to juggle PL and EL games but after buying who we bought it sure as hell isn't now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 More issue with the fact that Gabby Obertan is so shit he couldn't manage a start in a wide right position. We had to play a DM in that role. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JRandall96 Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 More issue with the fact that Gabby Obertan is so s*** he couldn't manage a start in a wide right position. We had to play a DM in that role. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 More issue with the fact that Gabby Obertan is so s*** he couldn't manage a start in a wide right position. We had to play a DM in that role. Did we really have to though? seems to me it was a choice of Pardew not something that was forced upon him we had other options. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JRandall96 Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 He picked the best Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Europa League has really proven how little our squad is. We shouldnt of had to play poor Bigi. Need to get some quality players in if we are to do well next season. Not young cheap players. Proper proven players and i must admit we've started doing that already It's really not a small squad at this point, particularly in midfield. Out wide and up front we could do with some more options. Small squad in quality? Having to play Bigi in my opinion was ridiculous still a young lad He didn't have to play Bigi as Marveaux and Perch were on the bench..... as IP said the only real areas we are weak is outwide and upfront, now i might accept the squad was weak before January to juggle PL and EL games but after buying who we bought it sure as hell isn't now. We had arguably our first choice back four all out for one reason or another. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JRandall96 Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Europa League has really proven how little our squad is. We shouldnt of had to play poor Bigi. Need to get some quality players in if we are to do well next season. Not young cheap players. Proper proven players and i must admit we've started doing that already It's really not a small squad at this point, particularly in midfield. Out wide and up front we could do with some more options. Small squad in quality? Having to play Bigi in my opinion was ridiculous still a young lad He didn't have to play Bigi as Marveaux and Perch were on the bench..... as IP said the only real areas we are weak is outwide and upfront, now i might accept the squad was weak before January to juggle PL and EL games but after buying who we bought it sure as hell isn't now. We had arguably our first choice back four all out for one reason or another. Which is why i believe our squad still isn't big enough if we want to really achieve something Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 More issue with the fact that Gabby Obertan is so s*** he couldn't manage a start in a wide right position. We had to play a DM in that role. Did we really have to though? seems to me it was a choice of Pardew not something that was forced upon him we had other options. I mean, being nitpicky dude - but basically my point is we couldn't play a winger due to Marv being unable to handle 2 full matches in short order. So he decides to impose the contain, therefore also decides to play Bigi wide right to help defensively. Which if he wanted 45 mins to not concede it worked. Well done gaffer. But we have so little depth or squad, we couldn't even play a winger out there. We had to play another central defensive minded player. Where does this winger play? The ressies, yesterday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Mole- I'm not arguing against you. I just wanted to call out Gabby for no reason at all Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mole_Toonfan Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Europa League has really proven how little our squad is. We shouldnt of had to play poor Bigi. Need to get some quality players in if we are to do well next season. Not young cheap players. Proper proven players and i must admit we've started doing that already It's really not a small squad at this point, particularly in midfield. Out wide and up front we could do with some more options. Small squad in quality? Having to play Bigi in my opinion was ridiculous still a young lad He didn't have to play Bigi as Marveaux and Perch were on the bench..... as IP said the only real areas we are weak is outwide and upfront, now i might accept the squad was weak before January to juggle PL and EL games but after buying who we bought it sure as hell isn't now. We had arguably our first choice back four all out for one reason or another. How often does that happen to anyone though? just unlucky in regards to 3/4 of it i really fail to see how we lack depth in defence at this moment in time of course if Coloccini and Simpson leave that might change but at this moment in time the squad is big enough in defence and midfield. Where we have problems is out wide and upfront but that is well documented. How many players did we have missing from the starting line up due to injury or cup tied? like 7 i can promise you now if the equivalents of Coloccini, Debuchy, Taylor, Santon, Tiote, Ben Arfa and Gouffran were missing for Man City their squad would start to look small too. The squad is far from small, we need 2 or 3 more quality players to push the top 6 but the squad is hardly weak or small. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Squad depth and injuries are a lesser part of the issues regarding our current problems imo. Some of the games in which she have needed and were likey to get optimum points and have played one up front. Hope we adopt fulham levels of tenacity tomorrow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 If we win the next two...could we pip a top 8 spot? We'd have 42 points with 4 games left, WBA 44 points with 5 to go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smal Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 no Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashley17 Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 If we win tomorrow I fancy us to finish in the top half, think we'll play with the freedom we did in "that" spell of last season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 I wouldn't be too surprised to see us pick up a lot after becoming 'safe', a lot of our performances we ahve been way too nervous and scared to play well. That said that all seems to be wrapped up in Pardew's gameplan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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