The France Thread

[Guest icemanblue]

I don't even know.

[Kanji]

In my head at full strength:

 

                        Lloris                       

            Varane        Sakho

Debuchy                              Evra

            Pogba          Matuidi

                      Cabaye

Hatem                                Ribery

                      Beznema                                 

 

 

or

 

                        Lloris                       

            Varane        MYM

Debuchy                              Evra

                      Cabaye

            Sissoko        Matuidi

Hatem                                Valbuena

                      Benzema

 

 

Questions for Mole or anyone better versed in French footie:

- Sakho or Mapou? Seems like French Football rates Sakho higher? Looks the more physical beast.

- Phasing Evra out - who would be the next in line to start? Clichy? Someone else?

- Is Pogba/Matuidi not too overly defensive? Would Sissoko be a better improvement in his engine up and down the pitch? Assuming Matuidi is the best DCM option as you say? So Sissoko and Matuidi?

- In Benzema here I'm assuming he's back to his best

- Where does Nasri fit into the squad in the future?

- Menez, Valbuena, Ribery, Hatem and Nasri all basically are fighting for the 2 wide positions? I'd like to think Hatem on form is no a brainer to start, but I'm massively biased of course.

 

[The College Dropout]

It's less important for a team like Spain. Their success is not predicated on a single striker putting goals in the back of the net. They'll control the ball 75% of the game, break down a defense, and sneak one past late-on. Don't get me wrong, they're all the more potent with an in-form Torres or David Villa. But it won't break the side to play without them.

 

 

France don't have that luxury though. They, and most international sides, need a dependable striker.

 

Italy went to the final with their top scorer on 2 goals.

[ponsaelius]

3 goals.

[The College Dropout]

Also won the world cup with the striker on 2 goals.

[The College Dropout]

3 goals.

 

Okay. Point remains.

 

How many did Guivarch get?

 

The last European teams to be led to finals/winners in big tourny's must be Villa/Torres '08. Before that?

[Nobody]

I wouldn't have Nasri anywhere near their starting XI. Selfish, overrated little cunt.

[ponsaelius]

3 goals.

 

Okay. Point remains.

 

How many did Guivarch get?

 

The last European teams to be led to finals/winners in big tourny's must be Villa/Torres '08. Before that?

 

Why are we limiting it to European teams if we're including World Cups?

 

Not disagreeing that there is some merit to your argument.

[Kanji]

I wouldn't have Nasri anywhere near their starting XI. Selfish, overrated little c***.

 

Same here, I don't like him 1 bit. Just assuming he'll be back in the mix again.

[ponsaelius]

Also not sure why you discounted Greece. Charisteas might not be a top class striker but he was crucial to that side, and hit the killer goals in the quarter finals and final (plus an equaliser against Spain in the group stages).

[Tooj]

When you compare France's central midfield options to ours man , especially on the more defensive side of things.

 

Matuidi

Diarra

Capoue

M'Vila

Mavuba

 

At least I can take comfort from the fact that they just won't get it together barring a miracle.

[Mole_Toonfan]

1. think Mapou is more talented than Sakho but i think Sakho suits Varane better.

 

Sakho is a physical bull so his traits suit being alongside MYM/Varane rather than MYM and Varane together.

 

But saying that Koscielny is more MYM than Sakho and that partnership seems to work.

 

2. As far as phasing Evra out there is no one major name right now.... but there are two very talented kids in Utiti and Digne who would look to build from, i don't like Evra's performances for France so i would personally take a risk on a kid like they have with Pogba and Varane.

 

3. I don't think Pogba and Matuidi if used correctly is overly defensive tbh as while both very good defensively and physical they have ability offensively... i see a lot of Vidal and Marchisio in them to use an example of great box to box midfielders.

 

4. Benzema will always start if he's right mentally and physically but at the moment he clearly isn't to the stage where he looks lost and forgotten what it means to be a top striker he needs a kick up the arse.

 

5. I have always considered Nasri incredibly overrated and what's more he's an ego-maniac with greed to boot so he doesn't fit to me.

 

6. The way i look at this on current form is that Valbuena has earned his spot, i don't like the guy but he's consistently one of France's best performers recently. The problem i have is unless you dominate who have ridiculously good fullbacks ( maybe Debuchy will help) Ribery and Valbuena is too passive and not threatening enough against the elite even if it helps possession wise.

 

I would like to see Valbuena or Ribery and someone with pace and directness which you would think is where Hatem comes in but we will have to wait and see.

 

With the way Benzema is playing at the moment they need people running beyond him and as of right now no one is and its easy to defend against.

 

I see potential with these players but i'm not confident in it being fleshed out properly in time for 2014 and another French disappointment is more likely.

 

[Kanji]

Does Moussa have a shot at starting ever then? Looks unlikely based on your analysis. Other more suited players there.

 

PS - are you French? Just curious as your French football knowledge or dedication is pretty awesome.

[Mole_Toonfan]

Does Moussa have a shot at starting ever then? Looks unlikely based on your analysis. Other more suited players there.

 

I think Matuidi and Pogba are better defensively which is quite important when you consider the make up of the midfield.

 

I look at their midfield and its very Juve like, but who knows this is just my opinion as of right now Moussa could rip the PL apart for the next few years and force his way in.

 

He's definitely in the shake up for sure and Moussa playing out wide is always an option, lots of things can change.

 

I mean over a year ago everyone considered M'Vila a sure starter and now he's practically a nobody, MYM was also and then Varane blew up.( although that is slightly different and there's much higher chance of MYM starting again)

 

As long as he's in the shake up he can force himself in.

[Mole_Toonfan]

Does Moussa have a shot at starting ever then? Looks unlikely based on your analysis. Other more suited players there.

 

PS - are you French? Just curious as your French football knowledge or dedication is pretty awesome.

 

Nah i'm English just watch a lot of football and have a few French friends from when i went to college a few years back who have taught me a lot.

 

Also helps that Ligue 1 is on ESPN quite a lot these days and the fact we seem to want French players seems as good a reason as any to follow potential signings.

[QBG]

That last line is not true.

 

'98 Guivarch. Whoever Greece had in '04. Toni scored twice in '06.

 

Spain won the WC & Euro's with out-of form strikers.

 

True but it is always a bonus to have somebody who can score regularly. I would argue that with Villa Spain at least have somebody with a history of scoring at that level.

 

Did he play as a striker in the WC? Didn't go to the Euros. International football is more about a strong defence, a midfield that can control games and holding your nerve using this combo.

 

Balotelli was probably the star striker last summer. He scored twice.

 

While true in the case of the last Euros, Villa was in storming form in 2010, and Torres was at his best in 2008 (5 years ago already?).

 

This. But I agree it is less important for a team like Spain who in recent years have suffocated teams before almost willing their opponents into collapse, France do not employ that kind of style and tend to be much more direct with the likes of Ribery and Menez working the channels and Matuidi and Pogba working as box-to-box midfielders.

 

When it works their frenetic and high-tempo brand of football is good to watch but what was obvious last night was that the full-backs weren't providing enough of an overlapping threat and that Benzema wasn't getting in any dangerous areas to latch on to service from wide areas. For the moment they would be better off playing Gomis up top, he's a very wasteful striker at times but is adept at bringing others into play and his movement is first class. Still I'm not sure whether he or Giroud are good enough for the long term. 

[Deuce]

It's less important for a team like Spain. Their success is not predicated on a single striker putting goals in the back of the net. They'll control the ball 75% of the game, break down a defense, and sneak one past late-on. Don't get me wrong, they're all the more potent with an in-form Torres or David Villa. But it won't break the side to play without them.

 

 

France don't have that luxury though. They, and most international sides, need a dependable striker.

 

Italy went to the final with their top scorer on 2 goals.

 

So? It's rare for even top goalscorers to net more than a few in international tournaments. So Balotelli's 3 is actually rather impressive (and it was tied for first at Euro 2012.)

 

Point is, most international sides need a proven striker in order to succeed. The few here are exceptions. Spain rely on possession to win, Italy rely on defense (though less so in recent years).

[Kanji]

Does Moussa have a shot at starting ever then? Looks unlikely based on your analysis. Other more suited players there.

 

PS - are you French? Just curious as your French football knowledge or dedication is pretty awesome.

 

Nah i'm English just watch a lot of football and have a few French friends from when i went to college a few years back who have taught me a lot.

 

Also helps that Ligue 1 is on ESPN quite a lot these days and the fact we seem to want French players seems as good a reason as any to follow potential signings.

 

Ah okay We get a decent shout here in the US on Gol TV or Univision on the weekends so I found myself watching a ton due to our scouting out there so I watched a ton of Moussa, Debuchy, and MYM.

 

You've got some awesome insight so apologies for asking you a ton of fucking questions today man - appreciate you responding.

[Mole_Toonfan]

Ah okay We get a decent shout here in the US on Gol TV or Univision on the weekends so I found myself watching a ton due to our scouting out there so I watched a ton of Moussa, Debuchy, and MYM.

 

You've got some awesome insight so apologies for asking you a ton of f***ing questions today man - appreciate you responding.

 

That's ok i was f*cking knackered after my shift at work when you started asking the questions so sitting on my arse by my laptop seemed the lesser of two evils.

 

It's less important for a team like Spain. Their success is not predicated on a single striker putting goals in the back of the net. They'll control the ball 75% of the game, break down a defense, and sneak one past late-on. Don't get me wrong, they're all the more potent with an in-form Torres or David Villa. But it won't break the side to play without them.

 

 

France don't have that luxury though. They, and most international sides, need a dependable striker.

 

Italy went to the final with their top scorer on 2 goals.

 

So? It's rare for even top goalscorers to net more than a few in international tournaments. So Balotelli's 3 is actually rather impressive (and it was tied for first at Euro 2012.)

 

Point is, most international sides need a proven striker in order to succeed. The few here are exceptions. Spain rely on possession to win, Italy rely on defense (though less so in recent years).

 

Didn't Torres win the thing? that really ruined my day at the time as i kept saying how shit he is

[Deuce]

Yeah he did, but Spain weren't at all reliant upon him. Complementary player the past few seasons.

[The College Dropout]

3 goals.

 

Okay. Point remains.

 

How many did Guivarch get?

 

The last European teams to be led to finals/winners in big tourny's must be Villa/Torres '08. Before that?

 

Why are we limiting it to European teams if we're including World Cups?

 

Not disagreeing that there is some merit to your argument.

 

European teams have won the last two world cups.

 

Other than Ronaldo, a striker hasn't fired his team to international success in my life time.

 

Also not sure why you discounted Greece. Charisteas might not be a top class striker but he was crucial to that side, and hit the killer goals in the quarter finals and final (plus an equaliser against Spain in the group stages).

 

He hardly fired them to the title. That was built on a very tight defence and midfield. Greece are the exact side that fits my description of international football.

 

At international level you can get away with your striker only scoring 2-3 goals. Giroud and an in-form Benzema could do that imo.

[The College Dropout]

It's less important for a team like Spain. Their success is not predicated on a single striker putting goals in the back of the net. They'll control the ball 75% of the game, break down a defense, and sneak one past late-on. Don't get me wrong, they're all the more potent with an in-form Torres or David Villa. But it won't break the side to play without them.

 

 

France don't have that luxury though. They, and most international sides, need a dependable striker.

 

Italy went to the final with their top scorer on 2 goals.

 

So? It's rare for even top goalscorers to net more than a few in international tournaments. So Balotelli's 3 is actually rather impressive (and it was tied for first at Euro 2012.)

 

Point is, most international sides need a proven striker in order to succeed. The few here are exceptions. Spain rely on possession to win, Italy rely on defense (though less so in recent years).

 

I'm a big fan of Mario Balotelli but he's not a proven goal scorer. Or at least he wasn't last summer.

 

You're misunderstanding the point. The goal scoring ratio for international football is lower than club football, especially over the last 10 years.

 

This is mostly a European thing. Top scorers in Copa America have scored 5 or more for the last 6 tournaments.

 

"Forwards" and AM's where joint top scorers in the last WC. Before that, Golden Boot winners where strict strikers. Suker, Ronaldo, Klose.

 

For 3 tournaments in a row in the Euros 96-04, the top scorer had scored 5 goals. None of which played for the eventual winners.

 

 

You don't need Alan Shearer in his pomp to do well in international football. The great French team around the millenium was built on the same principle. Rock hard defence. A controlling midfield that could handle pressure along with a genius AM. They did have great strikers but none lit up tournaments.

[Disco]

No hipster love tonight?

[LoveItIfWeBeatU]

Belgium 0 - 0 France isn't likely to get anyone that excited. Hopefully none of our players picked up any injuries.

[Ketsbaia]

Lee Ryder ‏@lee_ryder 15m

Debuchy and Sissoko play no part in France v Belgium #NUFC