Wullie Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Cannot help but feel this "too many French blokes" is a load of bollocks like, not that I would argue that signing purely players with no Premiership experience is perfect, but we just need to look at other sides in the league to see that it's largely a load of cliched wank. Mourinho at Chelsea for example, the only major Premiership ready players he signed in 3 year were SWP (lol) & Ashley Cole. Chelsea aren't a good example either. Terry and Lampard are the heart and soul of that team and have been for ten years. Mourinho knew that too. Sewelly's right though, signing a load of Englishmen will no more solve such a problem. I consider Krul, Colo and Jonas just as much a part of the club's spine as Taylor or Shola. If there is a problem with the French players, it stems only from them being here such a short amount of time but in substantial numbers more than their nationality - it's almost like having a load of loanees in that sense. Cultural stereotypes help nobody. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nixon Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 It's funny, the Englishmen are the spine but they rarely seem to grab the headlines. Robin Van Persie, Vincent Kompany, etc... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Cannot help but feel this "too many French blokes" is a load of bollocks like, not that I would argue that signing purely players with no Premiership experience is perfect, but we just need to look at other sides in the league to see that it's largely a load of cliched wank. Mourinho at Chelsea for example, the only major Premiership ready players he signed in 3 year were SWP (lol) & Ashley Cole. Chelsea aren't a good example either. Terry and Lampard are the heart and soul of that team and have been for ten years. Mourinho knew that too. Sewelly's right though, signing a load of Englishmen will no more solve such a problem. I consider Krul, Colo and Jonas just as much a part of the club's spine as Taylor or Shola. If there is a problem with the French players, it stems only from them being here such a short amount of time but in substantial numbers more than their nationality. Cultural stereotypes help nobody. The point is that they went out and filled their squad with a load of talent who had never played on these shores and still won the league. Far more of a mix-up than what we've done. Saying "ah they had Terry and Lampard though" is just convenient to your argument. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 It's funny, the Englishmen are the spine but they rarely seem to grab the headlines. Robin Van Persie, Vincent Kompany, etc... How are the Englishmen the spine? Fair enough Terry was a good defender but Carvalhio was the heart of that Chelsea defence. Simply saying "Terry and Lampard were the spine" is, as I said, just convenient. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Man City won the league last year without an English spine too which was strange. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nixon Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 It's funny, the Englishmen are the spine but they rarely seem to grab the headlines. Robin Van Persie, Vincent Kompany, etc... How are the Englishmen the spine? Fair enough Terry was a good defender but Carvalhio was the heart of that Chelsea defence. Simply saying "Terry and Lampard were the spine" is, as I said, just convenient. Sorry Hans, I was being sarcastic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Terry, Lampard and Drogba were the spine, tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 It's funny, the Englishmen are the spine but they rarely seem to grab the headlines. Robin Van Persie, Vincent Kompany, etc... How are the Englishmen the spine? Fair enough Terry was a good defender but Carvalhio was the heart of that Chelsea defence. Simply saying "Terry and Lampard were the spine" is, as I said, just convenient. Sorry Hans, I was being sarcastic. areet, it's late. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wormy Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Man City won the league last year without an English spine too which was strange. Barry and Lescott tbh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 'I came up against this subject many times,' added Wenger. 'You cannot want to be the best league in the world and close the borders, because then you're not. So you have to find a good mixture. I think the good mixture is to produce the players from your own academies and buy top, top, top class players. Oh and the knock out blow, wait for it dickheads: “The difference between Arsenal today and my generation is that we had a backbone of English players,” said Pires. “I’ve said this for years. Arsenal’s identity during the time they still won trophies was that spine of Englishmen. “During my time they had Tony Adams, Martin Keown, David Seaman, Lee Dixon, Ray Parlour and Nigel Winterburn – all very important players. “Our strength was the mixture of Englishmen and talented arrivals from Europe. “Now the club has some very good youngsters but they still lack experience. “To my mind the only solution for Arsenal is to buy some English players. “Arsene Wenger has talented players, but the team lacks a solid base. “I think it would do Arsenal good to rediscover some of the identity they had in the past.” Wenger, being the very successful manager is right. He has always said you have to have players from the academy, or at least players that have been at the club a long time. That is a totally different thing to attributing attributes to a nationality and thinking buying that nationality is a solution. Organically building a team slowly with an engrained style of play, is certainly something that is beneficial. That is the reason he is turning to British players now as he said recently he thinks he has a better chance of holding onto them long-term instead of losing key players every season in their current run on the ladder. Pires the flair player who has yet to coach or manage has less of a clue. To say they should just buy some English players and expect it to fix all their problems is moronic. He has more of a clue than you or I, since he's played football at the highest level and was involved in said successful Arsenal team. Or do you think that much of your own opinion you put it above his on this subject? Don't be daft. You know as well as anybody that there are plenty of ex-pros who talk rubbish as much as there are that talk sense. I'm sure there are plenty of occasions where somebody in the game has said something you vehemently disagree with but you don't disregard your own opinion and fall in line with theirs just because they played the game. If you're going to go down the route of your last post then that's what you're saying you will always do from now on. He's (Pires) talking drivvle, you can't just plug some English players into the Arsenal team and expect to turn into title challengers. They lack top quality players all over the park and they lack top level personalities too. If they shoved Gareth Barry, Gary Cahill and Ashley Young into the team it's more likely to drag them further towards the Europa League spots. There is merit for having a bunch of local players who have grown up together, know each other and have been imbedded into a club's philosphy over a number of years. That goes without saying regardless of their nationality and that's the benefits the great clubs have because they have the set-up, financial power and the engrained philosophy (Ajax, Barcelona, Bayern etc) to do so. That's closer to what Wenger has referred to in the past and what he tried to do as soon as he went to Arsenal, unfortunately they haven't seen much of a return on the investment until Wilshere came along. Sorry but the buying players part from pires is irrelevant, I'm talking about balance, mixture and leaders, like I said earlier Henry and a few other French players talk about how the English lot integrated them in to the ways of the premiership and English game. Going back to my original comment, the French lads have been left to fend for themselves. If Cabaye had been here 5 years I think it would be a different story, but really he's quite recent himself. Arsenal dont need to buy English, they need to grow them, as the first comment by Wenger that I posted suggested. Pires comments were posted to show the French imports appreciated the English spine which arsenal grew off, the unbeaten team the peak of that but the years before we're built on English foundations, by the time the unbeaten team came along a big part of their squad had been there for years. Anyone who thinks I'm blaming the french lads is a muppet btw, it's clear the English head of this team is a joke, it's just a shame we don't have anyone else in the squad to take charge of everyone, not just a select group of it causing a divide. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Terry, Lampard and Drogba were the spine, tbh. Hmm, I'm going to go with Carvalho, Makélélé & Drogba Gudjohnsen. EDIT: Scratch that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Cannot help but feel this "too many French blokes" is a load of bollocks like, not that I would argue that signing purely players with no Premiership experience is perfect, but we just need to look at other sides in the league to see that it's largely a load of cliched wank. Mourinho at Chelsea for example, the only major Premiership ready players he signed in 3 year were SWP (lol) & Ashley Cole. Chelsea aren't a good example either. Terry and Lampard are the heart and soul of that team and have been for ten years. Mourinho knew that too. Sewelly's right though, signing a load of Englishmen will no more solve such a problem. I consider Krul, Colo and Jonas just as much a part of the club's spine as Taylor or Shola. If there is a problem with the French players, it stems only from them being here such a short amount of time but in substantial numbers more than their nationality. Cultural stereotypes help nobody. The point is that they went out and filled their squad with a load of talent who had never played on these shores and still won the league. Far more of a mix-up than what we've done. Saying "ah they had Terry and Lampard though" is just convenient to your argument. Rubbish, that team was very well stocked with English players playing regularly. Terry, Lampard, Johnson, Bridge and Joe Cole, as well as the likes of Gudjohnsen who had been there years. As I've said, the issue is more to do with player turnover which only links in to nationality. Very few of our regulars have been here more than two years. There is also the primary issue that Pardew simply does not know how to manage a squad of international footballers. I'm not defending that cunt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Flash Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Man City won the league last year without an English spine too which was strange. Barry and Lescott tbh. Hart too. Played every game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlelunchbox Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Terry, Lampard and Drogba were the spine, tbh. And the goalkeeper? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Terry, Lampard and Drogba were the spine, tbh. Certainly, like scholes, Giggs and Keene were for Manu, Gerard, carra, fowler & Owen were for Liverpool. Citeh have a manufactured core which folded like a deck of cards this season. Ours under bobby, shearer, speed, lee, Bellamy & Given. You throw in the likes of Robert & solano and you are on to something. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Nationality has nothing to do with anything. The experience and passion you need in a team's "core" doesn't have to come from a homegrown player, it can come from any player that understands the league and the club and is blessed with a winning mentality; some of the biggest bottlers I've ever seen playing for us were from these islands. I'd rather have a core of Colo/Jonas/Cabaye etc than Carr/Butt/Duff/Owen... People are trying to partition the blame when it lies squarely on the shoulders of one man; perhaps three if you include the two dickheads who continue to employ him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Snrub Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Man City and Chelsea also had unlimited money. Think that was the main reason for their trophy winning, not a fucking spine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 This thread Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlelunchbox Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Man City and Chelsea also had unlimited money. Think that was the main reason for their trophy winning, not a f***ing spine. This is the truth. Add man utd to the list. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Man City and Chelsea also had unlimited money. Think that was the main reason for their trophy winning, not a f***ing spine. This is the truth. Add man utd to the list. Alex Ferguson would laugh in your face if you told him that having a stable player base was unimportant. You think he keeps Ryan Giggs and Darren Fletcher around because they're both still better than he could buy elsewhere? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlelunchbox Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Man City and Chelsea also had unlimited money. Think that was the main reason for their trophy winning, not a f***ing spine. This is the truth. Add man utd to the list. Alex Ferguson would laugh in your face if you told him that having a stable player base was unimportant. You think he keeps Ryan Giggs and Darren Fletcher around because they're both still better than he could buy elsewhere? Lol is this guy serious??? Giggs and fletcher that's the reason they won the title, nothing to do with spunking 23 mill on a 30 year old mad scoring dutchman Fergies spine would had meant f*** all had Mancini nabbed Rvp. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Our squad is well stocked with players who finished 5th last season though, 2 years or 10 years they clearly have some kind of bond and can play together. I'm not discounting the importance of having a few old heads in the squad and I realise that just throwing a load of new players into the mix is a gamble, the more you play together the more in tune you become, I suppose it's basic stuff, I just don't think the problem stems from not having some sort of "English spine". EDIT: I think Coloccini being injured has been pretty massive problem for us mind, an unstable defence can destroy confidence and he's obviously central to a lot of what we do regardless of how people view him as a captain. I don't think we've ever really looked well as a side when he's been out (not that we've looked great with him in this season for the most part). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Makes you wonder man, as we seemed to have really turned it around with him in there and then seemingly fell apart as soon as he went out of the team. (over time obviously). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Man City and Chelsea also had unlimited money. Think that was the main reason for their trophy winning, not a f***ing spine. This is the truth. Add man utd to the list. Alex Ferguson would laugh in your face if you told him that having a stable player base was unimportant. You think he keeps Ryan Giggs and Darren Fletcher around because they're both still better than he could buy elsewhere? Lol is this guy serious??? Giggs and fletcher that's the reason they won the title, nothing to do with spunking 26 mill on a 30 year old mad scoring dutchman Fergies spine would had meant fuck all had Mancini nabbed Rvp. I don't remember them having Van Persie last season or the season before that when they finished 1st and 2nd on goal difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 There is a theory that the Max no. of changes a team should make for their starting lineup is 3 players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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