Happy Face Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 So we're all in agreement. If we were run properly and paid a manager properly and weren't seen as a joke we could easily attract a good man and top sponsors and sell tickets/boxes at the going rate. But we aren't so we can't. If Ashley was so inclined there's no limit on what we could do. He's not. So we're a second rate club with a second rate manager, second rate sponsors, second rate prices and third rate dof. Agreed. But then it doesn't mean we have to all sit back and accept it. If he's appointing his mates to run our football club and they aren't doing a good job why should we let Pardew or Kinnear off the hook? They are getting paid to manage Newcastle, with it there comes certain expectations. If they aren't up to it, then they should expect criticism. Paid properly... According to the sun Pardews 8 year contract is with 25 million http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4560310/Alan-Pardew-signs-eight-year-contract-at-Newcastle.html What I can see of the article suggests (if £25m is accurate) that it's between Pardew and 3 other backroom staff. We also know how heavily Ashley stacks contracts towards incentives so half of that £3m a year the 4 men potentially share will rarely be paid out. So it's still true that Everton, who paid a £4m a year base salary to Moyes, see the value of paying what it takes for a good manager. Ashley still seems to view the manager as someone who's there to set the cones up, and pays accordingly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Agreed. But then it doesn't mean we have to all sit back and accept it. If he's appointing his mates to run our football club and they aren't doing a good job why should we let Pardew or Kinnear off the hook? They are getting paid to manage Newcastle, with it there comes certain expectations. If they aren't up to it, then they should expect criticism. Mentioning Kinnear struck a chord with me there. I've not been going off it with Kinnear in particular either. He's not going to become a good DOF or all of a sudden start presenting a professional face for the club. But that's because he is Joe Kinnear. Ashley is to blame for giving him a job. Joe Kinnear can't be blamed for being the Joe Kinnear everyone knows he is. Same with Pardew, and almost every other appointment Ashley makes....or will ever make. I know Ashley's clueless about football, which is why I like to keep pointing it out by ridiculing his choice of managerial staff. If Kinnear and Pardew are the answer, then Graham Carr is the wrong question. It's all utterly bizarre. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Agreed. But then it doesn't mean we have to all sit back and accept it. If he's appointing his mates to run our football club and they aren't doing a good job why should we let Pardew or Kinnear off the hook? They are getting paid to manage Newcastle, with it there comes certain expectations. If they aren't up to it, then they should expect criticism. Mentioning Kinnear struck a chord with me there. I've not been going off it with Kinnear in particular either. He's not going to become a good DOF or all of a sudden start presenting a professional face for the club. But that's because he is Joe Kinnear. Ashley is to blame for giving him a job. Joe Kinnear can't be blamed for being the Joe Kinnear everyone knows he is. Same with Pardew, and almost every other appointment Ashley makes....or will ever make. I know Ashley's clueless about football, which is why I like to keep pointing it out by ridiculing his choice of managerial staff. If Kinnear and Pardew are the answer, then Graham Carr is the wrong question. It's all utterly bizarre. So would your preference be for 50,000 in the stadium to be chanting "Pardew Out!" every fortnight? I would see that as needlessly destabilising to the players and other football staff and inviting undue media scrutiny when the owner cannot be trusted to make a football decision if he capitulates to the pressure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Agreed. But then it doesn't mean we have to all sit back and accept it. If he's appointing his mates to run our football club and they aren't doing a good job why should we let Pardew or Kinnear off the hook? They are getting paid to manage Newcastle, with it there comes certain expectations. If they aren't up to it, then they should expect criticism. Mentioning Kinnear struck a chord with me there. I've not been going off it with Kinnear in particular either. He's not going to become a good DOF or all of a sudden start presenting a professional face for the club. But that's because he is Joe Kinnear. Ashley is to blame for giving him a job. Joe Kinnear can't be blamed for being the Joe Kinnear everyone knows he is. Same with Pardew, and almost every other appointment Ashley makes....or will ever make. I know Ashley's clueless about football, which is why I like to keep pointing it out by ridiculing his choice of managerial staff. If Kinnear and Pardew are the answer, then Graham Carr is the wrong question. It's all utterly bizarre. So would your preference be for 50,000 in the stadium to be chanting "Pardew Out!" every fortnight? I would see that as needlessly destabilising to the players and other football staff and inviting undue media scrutiny when the owner cannot be trusted to make a football decision if he capitulates to the pressure. I think we missed that boat last season after the successive home thrashings by the SMBs and Liverpool. The Newcastle crowd are a pretty tolerant bunch and I won't slate them for that. Let's see what the mood's like after the next four games, there's going to be some fairly pivotal fixtures there. On the whole though I'm ambivalent about the whole business now. There are times to act and that's down to the owner not the fans. Short acted at Sunderland and he timed it right IMO. Ashley's chosen to carry on with Laurel and Hardy so we might as well stumble on and see what comes of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzza Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Like any business in the world the buck stops at the CEO who in this case is Mike Ashley. he is the person who makes the strategic decisions and who is culpable for how the company works. From a financial perspective he is doing mighty well, although some could argue that there is potential for a lot more... But Mike works a particular model and we all know how that works. From our perspective i.e. the team's performance, it is very random and without consistency. I put that down mainly to the following: Average manager & coaching staff / Lack of consistent improvement in transfer windows I don't think Ashley will ever return to a "lifestyle investment" scenario with us and actually look for some egocentric enjoyment out of us, he tried that and got his fingers burn't. We are stuck with a very "low cost" FC model. I often think that he seems a bit of a gambler and "what if" we made it to top 5 again, would he go the extra mile and gamble 40 mil on us to reach the grassy green fields of the top four? You know the answer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I don't think Ashley will ever return to a "lifestyle investment" scenario with us and actually look for some egocentric enjoyment out of us, he tried that and got his fingers burn't. When was that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzza Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 When he was a soopafan out on the pish wi aarl the leds... First round of signings with allardish Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 When he was a soopafan out on the pish wi aarl the leds... First round of signings with allardish We spent less then than we did in 11/12 http://i39.tinypic.com/2r2lu3b.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 When he was a soopafan out on the pish wi aarl the leds... First round of signings with allardish We spent less then than we did in 11/12 http://i39.tinypic.com/2r2lu3b.jpg You've missed two off that first one: Parker out, Barton in. Spend probably about the same though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beren Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Loic Remy cost £2m apparently. http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/newcastle-united-transfers.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 When he was a soopafan out on the pish wi aarl the leds... First round of signings with allardish We spent less then than we did in 11/12 http://i39.tinypic.com/2r2lu3b.jpg You've missed two off that first one: Parker out, Barton in. Spend probably about the same though. 7 June 2007 when Ashley took the controlling stake in the club. Parker's sale was completed on June 6th and Barton's signing on 14th June, so by rights, Ashley could claim to have spent £6m more than I've given credit for. But you're probably right, Ashley would have been consulted before we signed anyone during hi take-over bid that began in May. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 When he was a soopafan out on the pish wi aarl the leds... First round of signings with allardish We spent less then than we did in 11/12 http://i39.tinypic.com/2r2lu3b.jpg You've missed two off that first one: Parker out, Barton in. Spend probably about the same though. 7 June 2007 when Ashley took the controlling stake in the club. Parker's sale was completed on June 6th and Barton's signing on 14th June, so by rights, Ashley could claim to have spent £6m more than I've given credit for. But you're probably right, Ashley would have been consulted before we signed anyone during hi take-over bid that began in May. IIRC it was reported at the time that he'd done exactly that, given them the go-ahead before the takeover. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Like I said before, it's not about the spend or lack of it. We generate enough funds to build one of the better sides in the league regardless. It's about allocation of the funds, and unlike other skinflint clubs, e.g. Everton, we won't allocate them to a vital part of the operations which is the management. This will eventually come back to bite Ashley on his fat arse though, because the players are being devalued every month they spend here under Pardew. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Like I said before, it's not about the spend or lack of it. We generate enough funds to build one of the better sides in the league regardless. It's about allocation of the funds, and unlike other skinflint clubs, e.g. Everton, we won't allocate them to a vital part of the operations which is the management. This will eventually come back to bite Ashley on his fat arse though, because the players are being devalued every month they spend here under Pardew. The spending chat just came from the suggestion Ashley ever spent heavily on the club and then withdrew from doing so. Never been the case afaic. The benefit to Ashley of prioritising player wages over manager is that better players have greater sell on value and are more than happy to jump ship. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 He spent heavily on the club, just not on transfers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Like I said before, it's not about the spend or lack of it. We generate enough funds to build one of the better sides in the league regardless. It's about allocation of the funds, and unlike other skinflint clubs, e.g. Everton, we won't allocate them to a vital part of the operations which is the management. This will eventually come back to bite Ashley on his fat arse though, because the players are being devalued every month they spend here under Pardew. The spending chat just came from the suggestion Ashley ever spent heavily on the club and then withdrew from doing so. Never been the case afaic. The benefit to Ashley of prioritising player wages over manager is that better players have greater sell on value and are more than happy to jump ship. But the downside is that under performing teams don't attract big fees for their players. Tiote for example was valued at £15m a year ago, now he wouldn't fetch a fraction of that. Ditto for Cabaye, Ben Arfa and others. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 He spent heavily on the club, just not on transfers. It's called sole ownership without ambition. Funny you manage to defend it every fucking day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 He spent heavily on the club, just not on transfers. It's called sole ownership without ambition. Funny you manage to defend it every fucking day. Funny you choose to have a go at me over absolutely nothing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Not having a go, just offering a different perspective to your spin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 "have a go" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Not having a go, just offering a different perspective to your spin. Well fair enough I suppose, all I was suggesting was that Ashley has in fact parted with quite a lot of cash. His own fault etc, etc, I know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 And is trying to claw it back putting the club and suppoters through hell Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanj Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Not having a go, just offering a different perspective to your spin. Well fair enough I suppose, all I was suggesting was that Ashley has in fact parted with quite a lot of cash. His own fault etc, etc, I know. His initial investment was high and his subsequent investments have been fairly low. He could have easily made 1 to 3 shrewd hires in a Chairman/DOF/Manager and not touched that since and all of his minor cash investments into players would probably have served better and trickled throughout the club. Better Chairman getting better deals, with a better DOF/Scout/Manager relationship finding better players, getting more out the players, and a higher league position with more fan support and less unrest. The higher league position meaning more money and more attraction to commercial partners and sponsors or potential new ownership. Sadly, his horrible dealings early on and various other fuck ups since have damaged public view on the club until he leaves, sells up, or comes out admits to every mistake he's made and commits to righting every single one his wrongs and proves it with every decision after. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Slippery Sam Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 From what I see, we have a group of players who are playing well below their combined ability. We should be going into games dreaming of putting 3 or 4 past the opposition, but here we are worried that Sunlun's new manager will be giving them the advantage. Sunlun, a team whose only attribute is endeavor ffs. Alan Pardew is the fault in all this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NG32 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 COuld have made his money back by now if he had of listend to a certain person. Never mind, the man is a one trick business pony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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