Alan Pardew

[Guest icemanblue]

How many times have we seen us play a good first half

 

We have no real pattern of play, no real way of keeping the ball.

 

You are contradicting each other while being in agreement.

 

Has Pardew set us up to play well in the first halves of games or not?

 

Reading was the prime example. Dominated for an hour before Pardew shat himself and whipped off the main fretts to Reading, Marveaux and Cabaye , who had ran the show between them. Ended up losing.

 

 

That's a bad example, as it's not entirely true. He took of Marveaux, that much is true. I forget who replaced him. However, Cabaye then asked to come off as he felt a knock/strain of some kind. That unfortunately left us well short on creativity and forward momentum. I'm sure that you can find a better suited example though.

 

Not really as it was Cabayes comeback game after a lay off and Pardew must've had an inkling he wasn't going to get the 90. In which case, why did he take off Marveaux beforehand ?

 

He may not have got the 90, but I'd hazard a guess that he was expecting him to last longer than the 60 (I think?) he did manage. As I say, it's a bad example because you'd given the impression that he'd elected to 'whip' them both off, despite them playing well. That wasn't the case, as an unexpected situation had caused the second substitution. Something he admitted after game, if I remember correctly. In this example, it wasn't his absolute intention to completely stifle our creativity and forward impetus.

 

There'll be other, clearer, and more damning examples. You could point to those instead?

 

He said it was unexpected. I'm saying that Cabaye struggles to get 90 when he plays week in week out, so it shouldn't have been unexpected and he should never have even contemplated taking Marveaux off beforehand.

It was rank bad management, and effectively cost us the game.

 

 

Reading was the prime example. Dominated for an hour before Pardew shat himself and whipped off the main fretts to Reading, Marveaux and Cabaye , who had ran the show between them. Ended up losing.

 

 

You're twisting your argument again, Billy. It perhaps wasn't the greatest example of prescient management, but, a deliberately negative move with the sole intention of 'shutting up shop' it was not. Like I've said, there are plenty of other examples you could use, as this is far from being your 'prime' one.

[mrmojorisin75]

What decent teams really get anywhere just by 'keeping it tight'? If you want to be a good side you need more than that about you.

 

signs were there last season that this season might happen, we all know this, what we didn't know for sure last year was how poorly pardew would react when he was up against it - it's some of the worst top flight football management i've ever witnessed tbh, he should be sacked for this alone

[Dave]

HF will attempt to engage in intelligent debate with the stupidest of people for a lot longer than most humans would allow*.

 

Spudil, you should enjoy the patience he's affording you and see if you can learn something, rather than resorting to abuse.

 

*He was the very last person to run out of patience with Leazes ffs.

 

Any thoughts on Pardew?

[Lotus]

He hasn't grown with the potential of the squad. Personally, don't think he has it in him. We can meander along at his potential or we could look for someone to get more out of the team than he does. Reading that, it's an easy decision. The next bit is a lot harder.

[Happy Face]

Much more sensible to view it from the perspective that players lose concentration, they forget their instructions, they panic after a bit of pressure and resort more and more to methods that they had not been asked to use when in training for the game.

 

think hans might have covered this but let's assume you're correct - what has the manager done about it in 2.5 years then? his job isn't to just let shit happen...if you were right, and i don't think you are, he's paid to find a way to stop it happening

 

He got 5 new players in January that are better than the ones they replaced.  They will help with that, long term.

 

Short term they are as likely to show inexperience or panic as those lesser players.

 

I find it a bit worrying that the new players have mostly actually got worse since they got here. Lack of confidence rubbing off?

 

In a perfect world they would all have been used as sparingly as Ben Arfa was upon arrival when he was chomping at the bit to play.

 

Instead, Sissoko played 10 games in 30 days or something ridiculous.

 

Fitness, and concentration needs to be taken up a notch if they're gonna cut it in the Premier league.

[Incognito]

How many times have we seen us play a good first half

 

We have no real pattern of play, no real way of keeping the ball.

 

You are contradicting each other while being in agreement.

 

Has Pardew set us up to play well in the first halves of games or not?

 

Reading was the prime example. Dominated for an hour before Pardew shat himself and whipped off the main fretts to Reading, Marveaux and Cabaye , who had ran the show between them. Ended up losing.

 

 

That's a bad example, as it's not entirely true. He took of Marveaux, that much is true. I forget who replaced him. However, Cabaye then asked to come off as he felt a knock/strain of some kind. That unfortunately left us well short on creativity and forward momentum. I'm sure that you can find a better suited example though.

 

Not really as it was Cabayes comeback game after a lay off and Pardew must've had an inkling he wasn't going to get the 90. In which case, why did he take off Marveaux beforehand ?

 

He may not have got the 90, but I'd hazard a guess that he was expecting him to last longer than the 60 (I think?) he did manage. As I say, it's a bad example because you'd given the impression that he'd elected to 'whip' them both off, despite them playing well. That wasn't the case, as an unexpected situation had caused the second substitution. Something he admitted after game, if I remember correctly. In this example, it wasn't his absolute intention to completely stifle our creativity and forward impetus.

 

There'll be other, clearer, and more damning examples. You could point to those instead?

 

He said it was unexpected. I'm saying that Cabaye struggles to get 90 when he plays week in week out, so it shouldn't have been unexpected and he should never have even contemplated taking Marveaux off beforehand.

It was rank bad management, and effectively cost us the game.

 

 

Reading was the prime example. Dominated for an hour before Pardew shat himself and whipped off the main fretts to Reading, Marveaux and Cabaye , who had ran the show between them. Ended up losing.

 

 

You're twisting your argument again, Billy. It perhaps wasn't the greatest example of prescient management, but, a deliberately negative move with the sole intention of 'shutting up shop' it was not. Like I've said, there are plenty of other examples you could use, as this is far from being your 'prime' one.

 

I'd say taking your two most creative players off was shutting up shop personally. Especially as he brought Perch and I think Anita to replace.

[mrmojorisin75]

Much more sensible to view it from the perspective that players lose concentration, they forget their instructions, they panic after a bit of pressure and resort more and more to methods that they had not been asked to use when in training for the game.

 

think hans might have covered this but let's assume you're correct - what has the manager done about it in 2.5 years then? his job isn't to just let shit happen...if you were right, and i don't think you are, he's paid to find a way to stop it happening

 

He got 5 new players in January that are better than the ones they replaced.  They will help with that, long term.

 

Short term they are as likely to show inexperience or panic as those lesser players.

 

doesn't explain the identical performances, indeed worse performances, prior to january

 

Performances were solid and achieved 5th place when we had a remarkably injury free season.  Before January we were filling gaps with Sammy Ameobi.  Tavernier? Obertan?  Ferguson?  Bigirimana?

 

They're not good enough.

 

so he can only succeed when he has ideal circumstances then?  pretty much the opposite of the definition of a successful manager right there

 

also, you correctly used the term "filling gaps", he wasn't fielding 6 reserve players every week the entire season...he filled gaps with poorer players and inexperienced bairns, that's what happens in football

[steve_69]

Serious question here - what is Pardew's preferred brand of football?

 

I was thinking about it last night and I still haven't got a clue after 2 seasons. Pulis and Allardyce prefer a more direct, physical approach, Rodgers, Martinez, Wenger and a few others prefer carpet football, Hughton is defensive etc.

 

What exactly is the end goal for Pardew? If he actually pulls his finger out of his arsehole and gets us playing the way he wants us to, what will that look like?

 

Answers on a postcode

 

[Lotus]

Oh, one thing i have noticed about Pardew, he's pretty good and reflecting and identifying past mistakes. He's hasn't shown much ability and anticipating oncoming problems though.

[littlelunchbox]

think most would agree, not only is he inept, he is a liability quite honestly.

 

 

[Guest Dontooner]

Losers on the prowl, Cows on the streets.

[colinmk]

Fair point Neil, I am interested to see how he gets on next season. Maybe Fergie will be the one to take him up a notch.

 

We do Ian but to rely on the individuals producing magic is a cop out. That should be the icing on the cake? We had players on unbelievable runs of form last season, wonder goals all over the place, Pardew deserves some credit for that but I am 99% sure he won't be able to replicate that.

[mrmojorisin75]

Instead, Sissoko played 10 games in 30 days or something ridiculous.

 

again, this was largely the managers choice no?  he had other options but sissoko came in and looked like he was going to set the world on fire so pardew flogged him to death hoping he'd win games on his own imo

[colinmk]

What decent teams really get anywhere just by 'keeping it tight'? If you want to be a good side you need more than that about you.

 

signs were there last season that this season might happen, we all know this, what we didn't know for sure last year was how poorly pardew would react when he was up against it - it's some of the worst top flight football management i've ever witnessed tbh, he should be sacked for this alone

 

This is another thing that has really shown him up yeah, he crumbles under pressure so badly. One of the worst I've ever seen for it.

[Guest icemanblue]

How many times have we seen us play a good first half

 

We have no real pattern of play, no real way of keeping the ball.

 

You are contradicting each other while being in agreement.

 

Has Pardew set us up to play well in the first halves of games or not?

 

Reading was the prime example. Dominated for an hour before Pardew shat himself and whipped off the main fretts to Reading, Marveaux and Cabaye , who had ran the show between them. Ended up losing.

 

 

That's a bad example, as it's not entirely true. He took of Marveaux, that much is true. I forget who replaced him. However, Cabaye then asked to come off as he felt a knock/strain of some kind. That unfortunately left us well short on creativity and forward momentum. I'm sure that you can find a better suited example though.

 

Not really as it was Cabayes comeback game after a lay off and Pardew must've had an inkling he wasn't going to get the 90. In which case, why did he take off Marveaux beforehand ?

 

He may not have got the 90, but I'd hazard a guess that he was expecting him to last longer than the 60 (I think?) he did manage. As I say, it's a bad example because you'd given the impression that he'd elected to 'whip' them both off, despite them playing well. That wasn't the case, as an unexpected situation had caused the second substitution. Something he admitted after game, if I remember correctly. In this example, it wasn't his absolute intention to completely stifle our creativity and forward impetus.

 

There'll be other, clearer, and more damning examples. You could point to those instead?

 

He said it was unexpected. I'm saying that Cabaye struggles to get 90 when he plays week in week out, so it shouldn't have been unexpected and he should never have even contemplated taking Marveaux off beforehand.

It was rank bad management, and effectively cost us the game.

 

 

Reading was the prime example. Dominated for an hour before Pardew shat himself and whipped off the main fretts to Reading, Marveaux and Cabaye , who had ran the show between them. Ended up losing.

 

 

You're twisting your argument again, Billy. It perhaps wasn't the greatest example of prescient management, but, a deliberately negative move with the sole intention of 'shutting up shop' it was not. Like I've said, there are plenty of other examples you could use, as this is far from being your 'prime' one.

 

I'd say taking your two most creative players off was shutting up shop personally. Especially as he brought Perch and I think Anita to replace.

 

Sigh. We've gone full circle and we're now back at square one. It's unfortunate that you have to adopt this approach any time someone engages you in debate, as I'm sure you're not stupid. You've had ample opportunity to provide more examples, or even one, yet you're persisting with your 'prime' example that has many questions over it.

[Happy Face]

What decent teams really get anywhere just by 'keeping it tight'? If you want to be a good side you need more than that about you.

 

Expectations seem high round these parts.

 

With an effective transfer budget of zero, a chairman actually taking £30m OUT of the club over a couple of years, the lowest paid manager in the league, and a bench full of geriatrics/kids, what makes you think the chairman shares your ambition for getting anywhere and being a good side?

[littlelunchbox]

What decent teams really get anywhere just by 'keeping it tight'? If you want to be a good side you need more than that about you.

 

Expectations seem high round these parts.

 

With an effective transfer budget of zero, a chairman actually taking £30m OUT of the club over a couple of years, the lowest paid manager in the league, and a bench full of geriatrics/kids, what makes you think the chairman shares your ambition for getting anywhere and being a good side?

 

expecting us not to be in a relegation fight is not high expectation.

[mrmojorisin75]

what makes you think the chairman shares your ambition for getting anywhere and being a good side?

 

team, no squad, of full internationals not enough to expect to be free of relegation worry 'til the 37th games of the season ends?

[Dr Venkman]

Happy Face is adamant to keep this weird argument going, like. Fervently defending a manager who he concedes is a "no-mark" purely because he doesn't like Mike Ashley. It's mad.

 

Ad hominem.

 

Doesn't engage any of my points.

 

Just says I'm mad.

 

There is evidence that Alan Pardew is capable of getting Newcastle united  to finish in the top 5.  There is evidence of awful injury issues hindering that this season, of our main goal threat being sold and not replaced adequately.  There is evidence of improved results since he was given extra bodies to fill some of the gaps in January.

 

What evidence is there that Mike Ashley can find a more accomplished manager?

 

 

So fuck.

 

No-one's saying he should be sacked.........and then we should look for another manager. Though that's what will happen around about christmas time fwiw. The evidence for that is that Pardew's a bad manager with a bad record who always loses control after around a year, it's already happened here, it will continue.

[littlelunchbox]

Serious question here - what is Pardew's preferred brand of football?

 

I was thinking about it last night and I still haven't got a clue after 2 seasons. Pulis and Allardyce prefer a more direct, physical approach, Rodgers, Martinez, Wenger and a few others prefer carpet football, Hughton is defensive etc.

 

What exactly is the end goal for Pardew? If he actually pulls his finger out of his arsehole and gets us playing the way he wants us to, what will that look like?

 

Answers on a postcode

 

Direct, thats about all I can say about it.

 

i would say 'Boredom'

 

go out there and bore the opposition to death, when they are finally half asleep hit them with the counter long ball.

[Happy Face]

I've noticed that, i asked him about our style of play and the free kick hoofs. Maybe this will jog his memory.

 

Aye, dodging question all over aren't I.

 

There's a dozen of you and 2 of us expressing the counter argument.

 

I don't think Pardew is capable of implementing any style other than keeping it tight.  His set piece record is atrocious.

But then we scored from as many set pieces as Arsenal last season. Should Wenger be sacked for his awful set pieces?  We don't necessarily have to rely on them.

 

 

Fair enough on your reply, cheers mate.

 

Second thing, the point about Arsenal is pathetic, seeing as they score freely from open play, have a good movement and have been high in the league every year. Its a ridiculous comparison.

 

We're no Arsenal. But we've scored more goals from open play than ten other teams.

 

What's infuriating is we all know the limitations with set pieces, we can't get a whipped ball onto the head of one of our players to save out life.  So we should work around the limitation and play set pieces short until we have the personnel to deliver on them.

[Happy Face]

What decent teams really get anywhere just by 'keeping it tight'? If you want to be a good side you need more than that about you.

 

Expectations seem high round these parts.

 

With an effective transfer budget of zero, a chairman actually taking £30m OUT of the club over a couple of years, the lowest paid manager in the league, and a bench full of geriatrics/kids, what makes you think the chairman shares your ambition for getting anywhere and being a good side?

 

expecting us not to be in a relegation fight is not high expectation.

 

Spent 20m in Jan, and have one of the best first 11's outside of the top 6.  Expectations are around top 10 for most. Why must Ashley constantly take all the flak? he's far from perfect but fucking hell he's bought us a pretty fucking decent team

 

We can still finish in the top 10.

[littlelunchbox]

Serious question here - what is Pardew's preferred brand of football?

 

I was thinking about it last night and I still haven't got a clue after 2 seasons. Pulis and Allardyce prefer a more direct, physical approach, Rodgers, Martinez, Wenger and a few others prefer carpet football, Hughton is defensive etc.

 

What exactly is the end goal for Pardew? If he actually pulls his finger out of his arsehole and gets us playing the way he wants us to, what will that look like?

 

Answers on a postcode

 

Direct, thats about all I can say about it.

 

i would say 'Boredom'

 

go out there and bore the opposition to death, when they are finally half asleep hit them with the counter long ball.

 

I can't see anything that jumps out as a particular style but its direct. Long ball, free kicks in our half launched into the oppo box.

 

yeah i guess it can be easy for a lot of people to label us a long ball team, but then you get down to it and think it over, our long balls are far too horrifically poor , which leads to the conclusion the team and manager don't train solely for long balls. 

 

So you scatch your head and think we dont pass the ball short that much either, we dont try to keep the ball either,... what style is this?

 

its fucking relegation fodder style.  no question.

[Dr Venkman]

 

I don't think there's a massive difference in the way we're set up either side of half time besides becoming gradually more negative as the game goes on providing we haven't gone behind. Even then, we sometimes have become more negative and gone for damage limitation.

 

I still don't understand.

 

Do the players ignore everything Pardew has said through the week and play more positively early in the game.....but then take great heed of everything he has to say at half time and come out ready to play his negative brand of football?

 

It defies logic.

 

Much more sensible to view it from the perspective that players lose concentration, they forget their instructions, they panic after a bit of pressure and resort more and more to methods that they had not been asked to use when in training for the game.

 

It's not more sensible, it just fits your opinion that the players are more to blame than Pardew. Do you think when a striker misses a chance that it's the manager's fault? Do you think when a team plays badly for an entire season (and by badly I mean ineffective) other than about 150 minutes, that's the managers fault? Or are ALL the players shit and unable to concentrate? They're forgetting instructions they were given less than 45 minutes ago? Are they fucking goldfish like?

 

I think we often look more competent in first halves because we've often got better players than the opposition and Pardew sends them out to not concede and see what they can do with the ball. They're not coached or encouraged to pass and move as a team or create space and opportunities, what they can do usually amounts to fuck all. If they weren't all told to keep their positions due to shape being the most important thing (there's tons of EVIDENCE for this) then perhaps they might achieve a bit more. We huff and puff, Cabaye plays balls over the top from centre half, we get it wide to players who can't cross.

 

Second half we're either winning (Pardew will settle for that) drawing (Pardew will settle for that in every single away game and most at home) or losing (there's fuck all he can do about it because the team aren't coached to attack, there's no emphasis on it, so he brings on Shola).

[Mole_Toonfan]

I couldn't give 2 shits about the set pieces personally, i'm more concerned about the lack of creation in open play which with the players we have is absymal.

 

Not to mention how negative we are, watch even Swansea or Southampton they have numbers from midfield joining the forwards when they attack.

 

Our midfield is rigid and deep with any movement what so ever.

 

If Pardew can fix all the tactics, coaching and playing style problems then fair play but i'm certain that he can't.