Still Not Worthy Of A Thread

[bigfella]

£10m?!

 

Aye, I  at that bit as well, probably the reason why it wouldn't be worth putting in the Pardew thread.

 

Good entertaining read though, I like this blokes style.

[jdckelly]

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/the-madness-of-the-transfer-window

 

Cracking read that! 

 

...as is the Pardew article by the same fella.

 

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/alan-pardews-paying-for-his-faustian-pact

what a strange article, the guy (and many here) go on as if no manager ever anywhere else has been lined up to replace someone before he was sacked.

[54]

Greg Dyke fears for the future of the national team unless drastic steps are taken to nurture more English talent.

 

The Football Association chairman laid out his vision for the future of football in England at a keynote speech in London, setting the target of victory at the 2022 World Cup in Qatar.

 

But Dyke made it clear he believes such ambition will soon become unrealistic unless the Premier League and the FA work together to cut the percentage of foreign players, managers and owners.

 

The former television executive intends to set up a commission to look into the dwindling number of English-qualified players regularly used by Premier League clubs.

 

And Dyke said the FA would be "letting the country and thousands of England fans down" if it did not deal with what he called a "frightening trend" which last season meant just 32% of players used by Premier League clubs were English.

 

"Do we let the trend continue or do we do something about it?" he said. "What happens when the number goes from 32 to 25 to 20 to 15?

 

"Do we still ignore the problem or do we act now? English football is a tanker that needs turning.

 

"Why has it happened? What can be done? How can you make changes? The FA has to up its game but all of English football has a problem. All of English football has to find a solution."

 

Dyke argued his vision does not put him on collision course with the Premier League, saying: "It is crucial that English football finds a solution without undermining the undoubted success of the Premier League.

 

"We don't want to kill the golden goose in the search of the golden egg but we do have to do something if the English team is to prosper in the future. "

 

Dyke's tone was not one of despair, though, when he suggested victory in Qatar - 56 years after England's sole World Cup win to date - should be a genuine aim.

 

He said: "The two targets I have for the England team are - one, to at least reach the semi-finals of Euro 2020. Two, win the World Cup in 2022."

[GeordieT]

Name checked in his full speech.

 

Let me just explain with a couple of recent examples.

 

We were all thrilled when Wigan, the underdog, won The FA Cup last season – all except for Manchester City fans that is – but only one of the eleven players who started for Wigan that day was qualified to play for England, although to be fair another qualified player did come on to score the winner.

 

A second example, Sunderland have signed fourteen players during the summer transfer window. They are made up of four Italians, three Frenchmen, one Swiss, one Czech, one American, one Greek, one Swede, one South Korean and a sole Englishman.

 

In fact in Sunderland’s first game of the season against Fulham there were only four players on the pitch at the start of the game who were actually qualified to play for England.

 

Mind you in the Newcastle team beaten 4-0 by Manchester City on that same opening weekend it was even worse – there was only one English player in their starting line-up.

This is not, repeat not, a criticism of those particular clubs, of Premier League clubs in general or even of the League overall, but it does illustrate the growing problem we face. No-one planned this but it is the result of my law of unintended consequences.

[Ameritoon]

Greg Dyke fears for the future of the national team unless drastic steps are taken to nurture more English talent.

 

The Football Association chairman laid out his vision for the future of football in England at a keynote speech in London, setting the target of victory at the 2022 World Cup in Qatar.

 

But Dyke made it clear he believes such ambition will soon become unrealistic unless the Premier League and the FA work together to cut the percentage of foreign players, managers and owners.

 

The former television executive intends to set up a commission to look into the dwindling number of English-qualified players regularly used by Premier League clubs.

 

And Dyke said the FA would be "letting the country and thousands of England fans down" if it did not deal with what he called a "frightening trend" which last season meant just 32% of players used by Premier League clubs were English.

 

"Do we let the trend continue or do we do something about it?" he said. "What happens when the number goes from 32 to 25 to 20 to 15?

 

"Do we still ignore the problem or do we act now? English football is a tanker that needs turning.

 

"Why has it happened? What can be done? How can you make changes? The FA has to up its game but all of English football has a problem. All of English football has to find a solution."

 

Dyke argued his vision does not put him on collision course with the Premier League, saying: "It is crucial that English football finds a solution without undermining the undoubted success of the Premier League.

 

"We don't want to kill the golden goose in the search of the golden egg but we do have to do something if the English team is to prosper in the future. "

 

Dyke's tone was not one of despair, though, when he suggested victory in Qatar - 56 years after England's sole World Cup win to date - should be a genuine aim.

 

He said: "The two targets I have for the England team are - one, to at least reach the semi-finals of Euro 2020. Two, win the World Cup in 2022."

 

The funny part is it's not like England has ever had a great record at the World Cup. 66 and 90 were pretty much anomalies.

[Jack Flash]

No mention of all the bad managerial appointments they've made since Robson (probably only Venables aside)?

[Toondave]

Clubs aren't to blame here. Putting any kind of limit on foreigners or encouraging clubs to choose English players artificially will only decrease the quality of the premier league. Nobody wins here except the already mediocre English  players - the team will not improve in quality.

 

If the English players are good enough then they will be starring in top premier league teams, and they do, it's just there aren't enough. So it's on the FA to improve grass roots level, not the clubs.

[Tisd09]

No mention of all the bad managerial appointments they've made since Robson (probably only Venables aside)?

 

Was Hoddle that bad an appointment? I remember him as doing well apart from that ill advised comment regarding next life etc??

[TheHoob]

He talks about it as if the PL clubs have some sort of agenda to stop English players playing in the league. If they were better players they'd be playing. I don't watch the PL to watch XI Englishmen play XI Englishmen, I watch it to watch some of the best footballers in the world, very few of whom are English.

[Wullie]

Clubs aren't to blame here. Putting any kind of limit on foreigners or encouraging clubs to choose English players artificially will only decrease the quality of the premier league. Nobody wins here except the already mediocre English  players - the team will not improve in quality.

 

If the English players are good enough then they will be starring in top premier league teams, and they do, it's just there aren't enough. So it's on the FA to improve grass roots level, not the clubs.

 

That's just not true though is it, realistically? If you're a youth player on Chelsea's books, you've got to be one of the world's greatest young players to get so much as a place on the bench in the League Cup. By the time you're 21, you've simply not played enough first team football to keep up with your peers in other countries who've been playing senior football for years.

[Jack Flash]

No mention of all the bad managerial appointments they've made since Robson (probably only Venables aside)?

 

Was Hoddle that bad an appointment? I remember him as doing well apart from that ill advised comment regarding next life etc??

 

He only got to the last 16 of the World Cup with a really good squad. Also from reading autobiographies, most of the players didn't like him and his methods.

[Wullie]

He talks about it as if the PL clubs have some sort of agenda to stop English players playing in the league. If they were better players they'd be playing. I don't watch the PL to watch XI Englishmen play XI Englishmen, I watch it to watch some of the best footballers in the world, very few of whom are English.

 

Really? I watch it because Newcastle are in it. Honestly couldn't give the first fuck about the standard and would happily see a massive drop in standard if it meant a more level playing field.

[Guest palnese]

Rooney's head gash. Nasty shit.

 

 

http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/290/290811/29081141/jpg/active/978x.jpg

 

[SEMTEX]

How the fuck did he do that anyway

[WarrenBartonCentrePartin]

You're a wizard, Wayne.

[Toondave]

Clubs aren't to blame here. Putting any kind of limit on foreigners or encouraging clubs to choose English players artificially will only decrease the quality of the premier league. Nobody wins here except the already mediocre English  players - the team will not improve in quality.

 

If the English players are good enough then they will be starring in top premier league teams, and they do, it's just there aren't enough. So it's on the FA to improve grass roots level, not the clubs.

 

That's just not true though is it, realistically? If you're a youth player on Chelsea's books, you've got to be one of the world's greatest young players to get so much as a place on the bench in the League Cup. By the time you're 21, you've simply not played enough first team football to keep up with your peers in other countries who've been playing senior football for years.

 

 

Well it is true, but mainly because of my ambiguous sentence structure 

 

I see your point though but if they are truly good then it is in the clubs best interest, and also the players naturally, to be playing regular first team football. Be this a loan or a transfer to a lower club.

 

There's no agenda against English players. If we have a whole generation of English players who are inferior to, let's say, Spanish players then why should the English players get priority at club level? The English players will have to settle for playing further down the table(s). By forcing clubs to play English players then you aren't increasing the quality of English produce, just reducing the quality of the premiership.

 

The problem is at the root of it.

[Wullie]

Clubs aren't to blame here. Putting any kind of limit on foreigners or encouraging clubs to choose English players artificially will only decrease the quality of the premier league. Nobody wins here except the already mediocre English  players - the team will not improve in quality.

 

If the English players are good enough then they will be starring in top premier league teams, and they do, it's just there aren't enough. So it's on the FA to improve grass roots level, not the clubs.

 

That's just not true though is it, realistically? If you're a youth player on Chelsea's books, you've got to be one of the world's greatest young players to get so much as a place on the bench in the League Cup. By the time you're 21, you've simply not played enough first team football to keep up with your peers in other countries who've been playing senior football for years.

 

 

Well it is true, but mainly because of my ambiguous sentence structure 

 

I see your point though but if they are truly good then it is in the clubs best interest, and also the players naturally, to be playing regular first team football. Be this a loan or a transfer to a lower club.

 

There's no agenda against English players. If we have a whole generation of English players who are inferior to, let's say, Spanish players then why should the English players get priority at club level? The English players will have to settle for playing further down the table(s). By forcing clubs to play English players then you aren't increasing the quality of English produce, just reducing the quality of the premiership.

 

The problem is at the root of it.

 

Aye you knew what I meant.

 

I disagree fundamentally with your statement in bold because, simply put, players improve by playing senior football. That's inarguable, and they're not getting those opportunities to develop because of how easy and cheap it is to buy a player from Europe. The money in the game has made it impossible to give those opportunities so freely.

 

Easy example off the top of my head - Paul Dummett. Vastly improved in a short time by playing senior football, highly rated left back at an age where he needs to play to develop comes back last January after impressing up north and what do we do? Buy Haidara. Why? Because despite being over a year younger than Dummett, Haidara has three years top flight experience in a major European league, playing against other professional footballers and in big stadiums, as opposed to playing against kids and amateurs in front of three men and their dogs at Kingston Park, which was what Dummett had been doing for years before he went to Scotland.

[Wullie]

I don't think it's anything to do with the influx of foreigners at all, there is simply a dearth of English talent. We employ the smallest number of coaches compared to your Spain's and your Germany's, and the lack of English players is symptomatic of coaching in this country.

 

If an English player was good enough, he'd be starting. If he's better than his foreign counterpart he will be bought. Wilshire has done okay, Carroll?  It's not as if the next Gascoigne is stuck on a bench somewhere because Johnny Foreigner is taking his place. If anything I'm glad out players are playing alongside the best foreign talent.

 

The problem lies in infrastructure and outdated coaching methods, not recruitment

 

How's he meant to be "good enough" at 17 man, and better than Player X who's 26 and been playing in Ligue 1 regularly for 8 years and is available for £3m? Howay.

[LoveItIfWeBeatU]

http://www.nufc.com/

 

Squad list confirmed

 

From the Premier League website, Wednesday:

 

Following the closure of the summer transfer window on 2 September, the clubs had a deadline of Wednesday afternoon to submit their squad of up to 25 players which contains no more than 17 players who do not fulfil the Home Grown Player criteria.

 

The rest of the squad must be Home Grown - A Home Grown player will be defined as one who, irrespective of his nationality or age, has been registered with any club affiliated to the Football Association or the Football Association of Wales for a period, continuous or not, of three entire seasons or 36 months prior to his 21st birthday (or the end of the season during which he turns 21).

 

U21 players are eligible over and above the limit of 25 players per squad.

 

Changes to the squad list can only be made during the transfer window, which opens again on 1 January 2014.

 

Home grown (9): Sh.Ameobi, Dummett, Elliot, Gosling, Krul, Tavernier, R.Taylor, S.Taylor, Williamson.

 

Non home grown (15): Anita, Ben Arfa, Cabaye, Cisse, Coloccini, Debuchy, Gouffran, Gutierrez, Marveaux, Obertan, Remy, Santon, Sissoko, Tiote, Yanga-Mbiwa.

 

Under-21 (42): Aarons, Abeid, Aird, Alnwick, Sa.Ameobi, Armstrong, Atkinson, Barlaser, Bigirimana, Booth, Cameron, Campbell, Cobain, Drennan, Gillesphey, Gilliead, Good, Haidara, Hall, Heardman, Kemen, Kerridge, Laidler,

Logan, Mbabu, McKinnon, Miele, Mitchell, Morgan, Olley, Pearson, Quinn, Richardson, Roberts, Satka, Smith,

Sterry, Storey, Streete, Vuckic, Williams, Woodman.

 

There's no place in any squad for Shane Ferguson, Conor Newton or Romain Amalfitano, while Ryan Taylor is named despite being ruled out for the season through injury.

[Belfast Boy]

So Ferguson has been binned? But we have only named 24?

[Wullie]

 

I don't think it's anything to do with the influx of foreigners at all, there is simply a dearth of English talent. We employ the smallest number of coaches compared to your Spain's and your Germany's, and the lack of English players is symptomatic of coaching in this country.

 

If an English player was good enough, he'd be starting. If he's better than his foreign counterpart he will be bought. Wilshire has done okay, Carroll?  It's not as if the next Gascoigne is stuck on a bench somewhere because Johnny Foreigner is taking his place. If anything I'm glad out players are playing alongside the best foreign talent.

 

The problem lies in infrastructure and outdated coaching methods, not recruitment

 

How's he meant to be "good enough" at 17 man, and better than Player X who's 26 and been playing in Ligue 1 regularly for 8 years and is available for £3m? Howay.

 

That's completely hypothetical. 1) and academy player would be cheaper and negate the need to but a replacement. 2) good enough is old enough it's really that simple. We were awful before the influx of foreign players, we are exactly the same now. It's the coaching not the foreigners.

 

Gerard was in the Liverpool team when he was 18? Also it's entirely unfair to compare a 26 year old player with a 17 year old kid regardless of nationality.

 

So fuck that Stephen Gerrard was in the Liverpool team when he was 18? How is one example proof of anything? You mention Carroll - the only reason that bloke is anywhere today is because we went down and he had the opportunity to develop by playing first team football. If we'd stayed up, he certainly wouldn't have got a look in - he barely even got one in the first half of the Championship season because he looked a bit shite until a few months in and we brought in Marlon Harewood to play instead. If we'd stayed up, we'd have bought someone else and he would have drifted down the leagues, and maybe worked his way back up like Danny Graham did when he couldn't get a kick at Middlesbrough.

 

I'm not really sure what to say if you think football doesn't help footballers develop. The game is littered with players who've played 300 games before they're any good at all. Didier Drogba was rattling around in Ligue 2 until he was about 24 - by your logic, he should have been the same Drogba at 16 as he would go on to be at 25 when Marseille bought him.

[LoveItIfWeBeatU]

So Ferguson has been binned? But we have only named 24?

 

Shane Ferguson, Conor Newton, Romain Amalfitano and Mehdi Abeid are all on season long loans. I don't know why Abeid is listed in the squad.

[jdckelly]

So Ferguson has been binned? But we have only named 24?

 

Shane Ferguson, Conor Newton, Romain Amalfitano and Mehdi Abeid are all on season long loans. I don't know why Abeid is listed in the squad.

the u21 list is unlimited so why the hell not

[Wullie]

 

 

I don't think it's anything to do with the influx of foreigners at all, there is simply a dearth of English talent. We employ the smallest number of coaches compared to your Spain's and your Germany's, and the lack of English players is symptomatic of coaching in this country.

 

If an English player was good enough, he'd be starting. If he's better than his foreign counterpart he will be bought. Wilshire has done okay, Carroll?  It's not as if the next Gascoigne is stuck on a bench somewhere because Johnny Foreigner is taking his place. If anything I'm glad out players are playing alongside the best foreign talent.

 

The problem lies in infrastructure and outdated coaching methods, not recruitment

 

How's he meant to be "good enough" at 17 man, and better than Player X who's 26 and been playing in Ligue 1 regularly for 8 years and is available for £3m? Howay.

 

That's completely hypothetical. 1) and academy player would be cheaper and negate the need to but a replacement. 2) good enough is old enough it's really that simple. We were awful before the influx of foreign players, we are exactly the same now. It's the coaching not the foreigners.

 

Gerard was in the Liverpool team when he was 18? Also it's entirely unfair to compare a 26 year old player with a 17 year old kid regardless of nationality.

 

So f*** that Stephen Gerrard was in the Liverpool team when he was 18? How is one example proof of anything? You mention Carroll - the only reason that bloke is anywhere today is because we went down and he had the opportunity to develop by playing first team football. If we'd stayed up, he certainly wouldn't have got a look in - he barely even got one in the first half of the Championship season because he looked a bit s**** until a few months in and we brought in Marlon Harewood to play instead. If we'd stayed up, we'd have bought someone else and he would have drifted down the leagues, and maybe worked his way back up like Danny Graham did when he couldn't get a kick at Middlesbrough.

 

I'm not really sure what to say if you think football doesn't help footballers develop. The game is littered with players who've played 300 games before they're any good at all. Didier Drogba was rattling around in Ligue 2 until he was about 24 - by your logic, he should have been the same Drogba at 16 as he would go on to be at 25 when Marseille bought him.

 

Literally not once said that, your cherry picking what you want to hear to support your own argument. I used one example to prove the point that "good enough is old enough".  You've completely and utterly missed the point and pretty much everything you've set out in your response, I didn't say. I never once said playing football doesn't help you, I never once suggested that a player would be the same at 16 as he was at 25, though he was a slightly late developer.

 

I contended that it is wholly incorrect to suggest that our importing of foreign talent if fuck all to with the lack of English talent. We are shit, we were shit before, it means nothing. People must think there is the English Zidane sitting on a bench somewhere but he can't get a game because a 2m player from Porto is ahead of him.

 

You're using examples like Zidane to create a ridiculous hyperbole. Of course there are young English players at every club who can't get a game because it's easier, cheaper and less risky to buy a foreign ready-made replacement.

[Guest]

 

 

I don't think it's anything to do with the influx of foreigners at all, there is simply a dearth of English talent. We employ the smallest number of coaches compared to your Spain's and your Germany's, and the lack of English players is symptomatic of coaching in this country.

 

If an English player was good enough, he'd be starting. If he's better than his foreign counterpart he will be bought. Wilshire has done okay, Carroll?  It's not as if the next Gascoigne is stuck on a bench somewhere because Johnny Foreigner is taking his place. If anything I'm glad out players are playing alongside the best foreign talent.

 

The problem lies in infrastructure and outdated coaching methods, not recruitment

 

How's he meant to be "good enough" at 17 man, and better than Player X who's 26 and been playing in Ligue 1 regularly for 8 years and is available for £3m? Howay.

 

That's completely hypothetical. 1) and academy player would be cheaper and negate the need to but a replacement. 2) good enough is old enough it's really that simple. We were awful before the influx of foreign players, we are exactly the same now. It's the coaching not the foreigners.

 

Gerard was in the Liverpool team when he was 18? Also it's entirely unfair to compare a 26 year old player with a 17 year old kid regardless of nationality.

 

So f*** that Stephen Gerrard was in the Liverpool team when he was 18? How is one example proof of anything? You mention Carroll - the only reason that bloke is anywhere today is because we went down and he had the opportunity to develop by playing first team football. If we'd stayed up, he certainly wouldn't have got a look in - he barely even got one in the first half of the Championship season because he looked a bit s**** until a few months in and we brought in Marlon Harewood to play instead. If we'd stayed up, we'd have bought someone else and he would have drifted down the leagues, and maybe worked his way back up like Danny Graham did when he couldn't get a kick at Middlesbrough.

 

I'm not really sure what to say if you think football doesn't help footballers develop. The game is littered with players who've played 300 games before they're any good at all. Didier Drogba was rattling around in Ligue 2 until he was about 24 - by your logic, he should have been the same Drogba at 16 as he would go on to be at 25 when Marseille bought him.

 

Literally not once said that, your cherry picking what you want to hear to support your own argument. I used one example to prove the point that "good enough is old enough".  You've completely and utterly missed the point and pretty much everything you've set out in your response, I didn't say. I never once said playing football doesn't help you, I never once suggested that a player would be the same at 16 as he was at 25, though he was a slightly late developer.

 

I contended that it is wholly incorrect to suggest that our importing of foreign talent if f*** all to with the lack of English talent. We are s***, we were s*** before, it means nothing. People must think there is the English Zidane sitting on a bench somewhere but he can't get a game because a 2m player from Porto is ahead of him.

 

You're using examples like Zidane to create a ridiculous hyperbole. Of course there are young English players at every club who can't get a game because it's easier, cheaper and less risky to buy a foreign ready-made replacement.

 

I pointed to it in the England thread, but what's stopping English players going to France, Spain, Portugal, etc. and getting football over there?