Stewart Downing

[Interpolic]

We often simply go without instead though, it hurts the first team squad and our chances of success.  That's the reason for frustration.

[Jack Flash]

West Ham are a perfect example of excellent finances in football meaning nothing. They got relegated a few years ago too.

[Optimistic Nut]

NUFC fans should learn their lesson and stop cracking up with laughter every time they see a club paying more money for a player than they think they're worth.

 

West Ham wanted a player, they went out and paid what his club wanted for him. Good luck to them. "But they paid too much!" - so f***ing what?

 

I'm not a huge fan of Downing but I'd rather have him on the left wing than Jonas, which is what we've got to look forward to. Least we're not getting mugged on price.

 

We did this with Souness and we're still suffering now. Shepherd was getting us nowhere, no-one who checked the clubs books properly would have touched us, and we've ended up with Ashley who's put us on a sound footing but won't spend...

[Dave]

Why is it only possible to spend wisely up to about £6m, above which it automatically becomes 'spunked', unsustainable or a waste of money?

 

I seem to remember us spending a world record fee on a player once. That was fantastic value for money.

[Optimistic Nut]

Fwiw, I still like Downing and think he'll get goals & assists there. Would have had him on the left as an out-and-out winger, HBA doing his thing on the other side, with Remy & Cisse up front.

[Cajun]

Why is it only possible to spend wisely up to about £6m, above which it automatically becomes 'spunked', unsustainable or a waste of money?

 

I seem to remember us spending a world record fee on a player once. That was fantastic value for money.

 

I'm not sure that's the case, I bet a lot who wouldn't be happy spending £6m on Downing are more than happy if the Gomis deal finally goes through at £8m and would have spunked their trunks if we got PEA for £12m or whatever it was.

 

Speaking for myself this would have been too much to spend on a player of his ability and it would have been another player added to the list that we have been paying big wages on long after they were remotely useful.

[Dave]

But that's the argument that comes up without fail whenever people complain about the tight cunt owner. That they must want us to waste money.

[Stuy_O]

NUFC fans should learn their lesson and stop cracking up with laughter every time they see a club paying more money for a player than they think they're worth.

 

West Ham wanted a player, they went out and paid what his club wanted for him. Good luck to them. "But they paid too much!" - so f***ing what?

 

I'm not a huge fan of Downing but I'd rather have him on the left wing than Jonas, which is what we've got to look forward to. Least we're not getting mugged on price.

 

Well said. Clubs are trying to make a difference and look at us doing nothing. Not suggesting we blow money on shit players but fucking hell do something.

[Sifu]

Downing --> Carroll --> Nolan

 

The Allardyce "whip it in" tactic methinks. I'm content that he's not coming here tbh, he's lost his way a bit.

[Wullie]

NUFC fans should learn their lesson and stop cracking up with laughter every time they see a club paying more money for a player than they think they're worth.

 

West Ham wanted a player, they went out and paid what his club wanted for him. Good luck to them. "But they paid too much!" - so fucking what?

 

I'm not a huge fan of Downing but I'd rather have him on the left wing than Jonas, which is what we've got to look forward to. Least we're not getting mugged on price.

 

I'd rather just stop playing that formation and leave Jonas out of the side then bring in a player like Downing.  Also bollocks to not laughing at them, wheres the fun in that?  

 

They're spending whats neccesary to bring in the players they want and if they were good players I'd be envious to a degree.  But as it is they've bought a player I think is quite poor at a bad age for a bad price.

 

Stop playing wide players? How the fuck does that work then?

[Wullie]

 

"But they paid too much!" - so fucking what?

 

Hardly the way to run a sustainable club is it? West Ham can't afford to pay for a new stadium/the Olympic one but they can afford to pay big fees for overpriced English players on huge contracts. It's a joke.

 

I sometimes think our fans would be happier if we spunked money away (don't get me wrong, I want another striker and out and out winger) rather than putting the work in and buying sensibly. In football there isn't one answer, there are many.

 

Where are these many then? Where's this work you claim we're putting in? The season starts in less than a week and we still have a defensive midfielder starting as one of our wide forwards.

 

If that's a "sustainable club" then count me out.

 

[Teasy]

NUFC fans should learn their lesson and stop cracking up with laughter every time they see a club paying more money for a player than they think they're worth.

 

West Ham wanted a player, they went out and paid what his club wanted for him. Good luck to them. "But they paid too much!" - so fucking what?

 

I'm not a huge fan of Downing but I'd rather have him on the left wing than Jonas, which is what we've got to look forward to. Least we're not getting mugged on price.

 

I'd rather just stop playing that formation and leave Jonas out of the side then bring in a player like Downing.  Also bollocks to not laughing at them, wheres the fun in that?  

 

They're spending whats neccesary to bring in the players they want and if they were good players I'd be envious to a degree.  But as it is they've bought a player I think is quite poor at a bad age for a bad price.

 

Stop playing wide players? How the fuck does that work then?

 

I'm talking about not playing 442 (usually when Gutierrez plays wide left its when we switch to 442) and instead play a proper 433 with Gouffran/Remy and Ben Arfa either side of Cisse.  The way you're talking its a straight choice of either playing Gutierrez wide left or signing Downing and playing him in that position instead.  But the fact is we have better options than Gutierrez already.  Especially if we stop focusing so much on work rate and stopping the opposition and more on trying to attack them.

 

I would like to see a wide left player come in, but I'd want someone who's a clear improvement on anyone we have in that area not just better than Gutierrez.  Someone like Ince or Thauvin, not fucking Downing.  Luckily I dont have to worry anyway, West Ham save the day yet again.

[Wullie]

Gouffran's nowhere near good enough in that role to be starting every week in that position. Gouffran's a tidy little player but he's not a wide player, not left sided and not even as good as Downing is for that matter.

 

And I'm not claiming it's a matter of that at all. What I can't abide is this constant stream of "hur hur hur look at them mugs forking out for players they wanted to buy". Why would any West Ham fan give the slightest shit about how much they paid for a player? Whatever they've paid for him is a drop in the ocean of the new tv deal.

 

What they really need is someone like Graham Carr who they can get to find lots of French international hidden gems and bid well under the asking price for them.  Don't know why they haven't thought of that before tbh.

[Pata]

I would much rather have Gouffran starting for us than Downing. It's not all about the money they paid, I wouldn't be too happy even if we got him for free as he's likely to start declining soon while picking massive wages that could limit our whole squad.

[Ronaldo]

I would much rather have Gouffran starting for us than Downing.

 

Crazy that, man. Especially given the fact that Remy and Cisse will be starting and it's creativity we'll need for those two. Gouffran creates nowt.

[Pata]

I haven't really followed the news lately, has Pardew said we'll go 4-4-2? I assumed we are going with the 4-2-3-1 where I would rather have any of Gouffran/Remy/Marveaux on the left ahead of Downing. I'm also probably thinking Downing is worse than he really is.

 

Still, can't say I'm gutted at all that we missed on him.

[alpal78]

Gouffran's nowhere near good enough in that role to be starting every week in that position. Gouffran's a tidy little player but he's not a wide player, not left sided and not even as good as Downing is for that matter.

 

And I'm not claiming it's a matter of that at all. What I can't abide is this constant stream of "hur hur hur look at them mugs forking out for players they wanted to buy". Why would any West Ham fan give the slightest s*** about how much they paid for a player? Whatever they've paid for him is a drop in the ocean of the new tv deal.

 

What they really need is someone like Graham Carr who they can get to find lots of French international hidden gems and bid well under the asking price for them.  Don't know why they haven't thought of that before tbh.

 

I think the point about spending more than what is perceived as the player's value Wullie is that you invariably have less money to spend on others. That's why clubs try to get good value for money. Most clubs would have a hard limit on how much they are willing to spend in total for a given transfer window. An extra 2-3M for Downing would mean that said club would have 2-3M less to spend on other players. That being said, since it looks highly likely that we would not be spending any more this window, I share your frustration. In our case, the owner is not trying to get a good deal so that we have more to spend on other transfers, he just does not want to spend period. One loan signing for a club that was almost relegated till the last few weeks is horrible by anyone's standard and even worse that last summer.

 

There is a middle point between throwing away money and being miserly. No doubt that Ashley is leaning way too much to one side that he has demonstrated that he has very little ambition for the club to do well (aside from empty talks from Pardew). But in saying that we should spend more than what is perceived as the fair value of a player just so long as we get a new face in who is an improvement over Jonas, you also come across as leaning too much on the opposite side. Just because fans feel that West Ham have overspent on Downing, it does not follow that they are happy with our current transfers. Most I suspect would still want a winger and perhaps another striker.

[Unbelievable]

Good post, but I agree with Wullie that aslong as we get the right players in (and West Ham must have felt Downing was right for them or they wouldn't have got him), the transfer fee is here nor there from a fan's perspective, unless it threathens the very future of the club, which it clearly wouldn't for us given our financial situation.

[BrettNUFC]

I text my mate (Liverpool Fan) laughing about the loss they've made on Downing/Carroll/Cole and how they are lucky that West Ham have taken them off the wage bill....his reply was 'We are a big club, money isn't an issue'. Is money an issue in football? Do we do things the right way or the wrong way? Suppose when we are looking at others around us like West Ham coughing up silly money will nilly, just like Arsenal fans will be questioning their transfer policy when they see clubs like Spurs/Liverpool forking out the money let alone the likes of Chelsea/City, makes it harder for us to swallow but personally I actually prefer the way us and Arsenal go about things, it seems like the right and logical way to run a football but it can be very frustrating for us supporters.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I text my mate (Liverpool Fan) laughing about the loss they've made on Downing/Carroll/Cole and how they are lucky that West Ham have taken them off the wage bill....his reply was 'We are a big club, money isn't an issue'. Is money an issue in football? Do we do things the right way or the wrong way? Suppose when we are looking at others around us like West Ham coughing up silly money will nilly, just like Arsenal fans will be questioning their transfer policy when they see clubs like Spurs/Liverpool forking out the money let alone the likes of Chelsea/City. Personally I actually prefer the way us and Arsenal go about things, it seems like the right and logical way to run a football but it can be very frustrating for us supporters.

 

Anyway you look at it, signing those players for massive fees, having them flop, and selling them for massive losses is idiotic.

 

Obviously speculating would involve signing some big ticket players, some of which would inevitably fail. Basically that's what we used to do under the previous regime.

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

I text my mate (Liverpool Fan) laughing about the loss they've made on Downing/Carroll/Cole and how they are lucky that West Ham have taken them off the wage bill....his reply was 'We are a big club, money isn't an issue'. Is money an issue in football? Do we do things the right way or the wrong way? Suppose when we are looking at others around us like West Ham coughing up silly money will nilly, just like Arsenal fans will be questioning their transfer policy when they see clubs like Spurs/Liverpool forking out the money let alone the likes of Chelsea/City. Personally I actually prefer the way us and Arsenal go about things, it seems like the right and logical way to run a football but it can be very frustrating for us supporters.

 

Anyway you look at it, signing those players for massive fees, having them flop, and selling them for massive losses is idiotic.

 

Obviously speculating would involve signing some big ticket players, some of which would inevitably fail. Basically that's what we used to do under the previous regime.

 

If you look at Liverpool's revenue compared to ours (and indeed most other clubs) it doesn't matter. A big gripe of mine is that the money Liverpool have wasted in recent years should have seen them in real trouble. Instead they don't really have any consequence to this mismanagement. A few years ago they were looking like being in trouble and then new owners come in and all their money problems got solved. This is despite not having any real relevant success.

 

We do parts of business the right way, but we are suffering due to a lack of ambition that starts at the owner and runs down to the manager.

 

Football is a poorer sport by virtue of its failure to provide financial equality.

[Teasy]

Its not going to sink them of course (unless they kept doing it consistently) but it certainly matters.  If they had £31m more in the bank right now (what they lost on Carroll and Downing alone) they'd have much more to spend in the current window.  Before anyone says "well they've spent £24m this window anyway", they've also sold £29.5m of players in the same window to cover that.  If they had that £31m they could have easily afforded Diego Costa for instance.

[Wullie]

Comparing our approach to Arsenal's is ludicrous.

[Teasy]

Definitely, at least we've spent something this window   Arsenal have brought nobody in (a youth player for free doesn't really count) and have sold/released something like 20 players and brought in £10m in fee's.

[Wullie]

How is ignoring problem positions for years on end because they can't get anything out of the bargain bin the "right and logical way to run a football club"?

 

Can't believe what I'm reading.