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The Managerial Merry Go Round™ - Ivan Juric to Southampton

cp40

by cp40
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Guest firetotheworks

Guest firetotheworks

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I think it's pretty clear that Lerner originally had good intentions. The same can't be said for Ashley, within months he'd forced the club's biggest legend to walk away.

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brummie

brummie

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Did you catch MOTD 2 last night Brummie? I thought Keown made good points about you, in the way that you play at least. Saying that it's negative, zero risk, staying in position, no endeavour and then hitting it aimlessly up to Benteke. He didn't criticise Lambert directly, but he made a very clear point of saying that the players are good enough, so it was cleverly implied I thought.

 

I didn't see it, no.

 

One side effect of us being so bad is that I never, ever want to watch MOTD these days. See also any other football stuff beyond our actual matches. It is just too depressing.

 

Our problem is that, up until about 2 months ago, Lambert only understood the concept of counter attacking. There's nothing wrong with the counter attack, but there are two things which you need to be careful about.

 

One is that, it only works if you are good at it. Every time I hear a lazy pundit talking about us counter attacking and then talking about the pace, it makes me want to vomit. We aren't any good at counter attacking. We don't have lots of pace up front. Benteke and Weimann aren't pacy, FFS.

 

Under MON with better players, we were better at it, but not now.

 

The other is that there is a thin line between counter attacking and just sitting back and lumping it hopefully long. That's what we'd end up doing if the opposition weren't nice enough to play into our hands.

 

Then, about 3 months ago, he hit on the idea of actually trying to keep the ball. Something fans had been begging him to do for fucking ages. And lo and behold, we are keeping the ball. The problem is we're spending huge amounts of that time passing it around between us in the area of the half way line.

 

He's fucking dim, ultimately. He just can't work out that that alone is not enough. He doesn't, for example, get the concept of players moving off the ball, moving into space. He doesn't seem to have a clue about how to get us creating from this possession.

 

Sanchez (despite his nightmare on Sunday) is technically very good. So is Gil. But they are dragged down by the likes of Cleverley and, to a lesser extent, Westwood just passing the fucking thing sideways all the time.

 

Ultimately, Lambert hasn't got a clue how to make it work.

 

There were 10 minute spells in the match at the Emirates where we had 70% possession. At the Emirates. The problem is, Lambert sees that alone as an improvement, but it isn't, it is as above, just cluelessly passing it between us.

 

He said after Sunday's match, "we will carry on working in training and the goals will come".

 

That scares us all to death. NO THEY WILL NOT FUCKING JUST COME. That's why they haven't just come in the last six games in which we have failed to score a single goal. It isn't going to magically just fix itself, for fuck's sake.

 

The trigger should have been pulled long ago, but Lerner just does not care any more. He's absolutely living in cloud cuckoo land these days.

 

That's the biggest frustration. Not being fucking shit, but the fact that there is no hope of the manager paying the price. None whatsoever. Even if we go down, he'll stay in the job.

 

For four years Lerner was one of the best chairmen around, and then for the next four or five years, he has absolutely been amongst the worst. He used to be just clueless and naive. Now he is clueless, naive and totally unbothered.

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brummie

brummie

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It's amazing that there is a very high chance of them staying up scoring 20 league goals all season (if it improves)

 

We can defend.

 

Despite the evidence of Sunday, we really can defend quite well. I think we had the third best goals against figure till Sunday.

 

If anything saves us, it will be that.

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mosstef

mosstef

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It's amazing that there is a very high chance of them staying up scoring 20 league goals all season (if it improves)

 

We can defend.

 

Despite the evidence of Sunday, we really can defend quite well. I think we had the third best goals against figure till Sunday.

 

If anything saves us, it will be that.

 

How is Okore doing for you guys? Haven't really seen any of your games, but as a Dane I'm interested in his development. How is his level after the injury?

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Scotty66

Scotty66

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Living in Norwich I remember Lambert's time here quite well,I didn't watch a great deal of the football he played but I remember him taking Norwich from League 1 into the Premier League in a heatbeat.

 

He didn't spend much money but had Grant Holt who was an absolute beast.

 

I remember in the Championship Norwich were renowned for scoring late injury time goals,some fans even said that he shouldn't be telling the players to attack so much late on as it put the team at risk of conceding.

 

Seems World's apart from where he is now.

 

 

 

 

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NG32

NG32

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Living in Norwich I remember Lambert's time here quite well,I didn't watch a great deal of the football he played but I remember him taking Norwich from League 1 into the Premier League in a heatbeat.

 

He didn't spend much money but had Grant Holt who was an absolute beast.

 

I remember in the Championship Norwich were renowned for scoring late injury time goals,some fans even said that he shouldn't be telling the players to attack so much late on as it put the team at risk of conceding.

 

Seems World's apart from where he is now.

 

 

 

 

 

In the big league now, more risk.  You dont want to have the ball you know. 

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Guest firetotheworks

Guest firetotheworks

Posted
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Did you catch MOTD 2 last night Brummie? I thought Keown made good points about you, in the way that you play at least. Saying that it's negative, zero risk, staying in position, no endeavour and then hitting it aimlessly up to Benteke. He didn't criticise Lambert directly, but he made a very clear point of saying that the players are good enough, so it was cleverly implied I thought.

 

I didn't see it, no.

 

One side effect of us being so bad is that I never, ever want to watch MOTD these days. See also any other football stuff beyond our actual matches. It is just too depressing.

 

Our problem is that, up until about 2 months ago, Lambert only understood the concept of counter attacking. There's nothing wrong with the counter attack, but there are two things which you need to be careful about.

 

One is that, it only works if you are good at it. Every time I hear a lazy pundit talking about us counter attacking and then talking about the pace, it makes me want to vomit. We aren't any good at counter attacking. We don't have lots of pace up front. Benteke and Weimann aren't pacy, FFS.

 

Under MON with better players, we were better at it, but not now.

 

The other is that there is a thin line between counter attacking and just sitting back and lumping it hopefully long. That's what we'd end up doing if the opposition weren't nice enough to play into our hands.

 

Then, about 3 months ago, he hit on the idea of actually trying to keep the ball. Something fans had been begging him to do for fucking ages. And lo and behold, we are keeping the ball. The problem is we're spending huge amounts of that time passing it around between us in the area of the half way line.

 

He's fucking dim, ultimately. He just can't work out that that alone is not enough. He doesn't, for example, get the concept of players moving off the ball, moving into space. He doesn't seem to have a clue about how to get us creating from this possession.

 

Sanchez (despite his nightmare on Sunday) is technically very good. So is Gil. But they are dragged down by the likes of Cleverley and, to a lesser extent, Westwood just passing the fucking thing sideways all the time.

 

Ultimately, Lambert hasn't got a clue how to make it work.

 

There were 10 minute spells in the match at the Emirates where we had 70% possession. At the Emirates. The problem is, Lambert sees that alone as an improvement, but it isn't, it is as above, just cluelessly passing it between us.

 

He said after Sunday's match, "we will carry on working in training and the goals will come".

 

That scares us all to death. NO THEY WILL NOT FUCKING JUST COME. That's why they haven't just come in the last six games in which we have failed to score a single goal. It isn't going to magically just fix itself, for fuck's sake.

 

The trigger should have been pulled long ago, but Lerner just does not care any more. He's absolutely living in cloud cuckoo land these days.

 

That's the biggest frustration. Not being fucking shit, but the fact that there is no hope of the manager paying the price. None whatsoever. Even if we go down, he'll stay in the job.

 

For four years Lerner was one of the best chairmen around, and then for the next four or five years, he has absolutely been amongst the worst. He used to be just clueless and naive. Now he is clueless, naive and totally unbothered.

 

It sounds like you're in that hellish purgatory that we were in under Pardew. Is it beyond the point of redemption now with Lambert as well? Is it possible that he could finally move from pointless passing to purposeful passing saying as he finally went from counter attacking to possession based football?

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Nobody

Nobody

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Posted

Brummie, do you hate Lambert as much as you think we hated Pardew? Obviously I don't listen to Lambert's interviews a lot, but I can't imagine him being anywhere near as hateful and a cunt as Pardew is. Pardew being a fucking crap manager was one thing, but the way he conducted himself with his lies, arrogance and obvious bullshit is why I think most of us have such a passionate hate for him. Lambert is doing his best to be the worst manager in the league (stiff competition from Bruce and Pardew there though), but I just feel like he's woefully out of his depth and not hateable in the same way Pardew is.

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brummie

brummie

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Brummie, do you hate Lambert as much as you think we hated Pardew? Obviously I don't listen to Lambert's interviews a lot, but I can't imagine him being anywhere near as hateful and a cunt as Pardew is. Pardew being a fucking crap manager was one thing, but the way he conducted himself with his lies, arrogance and obvious bullshit is why I think most of us have such a passionate hate for him. Lambert is doing his best to be the worst manager in the league (stiff competition from Bruce and Pardew there though), but I just feel like he's woefully out of his depth and not hateable in the same way Pardew is.

 

I don't hate him as a person.

 

To be fair to him, he strikes me as a bloke who understands the club, understands the expectations (even the new, mega low ones) and understands why people get annoyed

 

However, I have to say, the amount of patience he has had is truly staggering.

 

The only bad stuff he gets on match day is occasional end of half booing. Sometimes he'll take Cleverley off and get sarcastic applause, but that is honestly all that he has had. On match day, people aren't getting on his back.

 

Contrary to what the press said at the time, this is exactly what McLeish got, too, although in his case it was the first season. In the McLeish year, we had an awful match against Bolton at home where the crowd turned on him, but that was at the end of April.

 

Lambert has got away with it into the third season.

 

So, no, he isn't hated. He is just regarded as absolutely incompetent.

 

In fact, I would say the word most Villa fans would use for him is "chancer". After matches, he'll say we're excellent despite massive evidence to the contrary. For 2 years plus when we'd regularly have abouy 35% possession, he'd always say "I don't believe in stats". In the last couple of months where we are often having more possession than the opposition, we'll lose and he'll point out that we had more possession.

 

He basically comes across as saying whatever he has to say to keep himself in a job.

 

We now have three consecutive home games. I have a feeling we'll win none of them. Come the third, I think the crowd will turn.

 

With us, it tends to be that we are slow to turn on managers, but when we do, we all turn at the same time. I think he has his "Bolton moment" coming soon.

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brummie

brummie

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I remember in the Championship Norwich were renowned for scoring late injury time goals

 

To be fair to him, he's also getting known at Villa for scoring late goals.

 

Except they're coming weeks too late.

 

 

 

 

*badumtish*

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brummie

brummie

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It's amazing that there is a very high chance of them staying up scoring 20 league goals all season (if it improves)

 

We can defend.

 

Despite the evidence of Sunday, we really can defend quite well. I think we had the third best goals against figure till Sunday.

 

If anything saves us, it will be that.

 

How is Okore doing for you guys? Haven't really seen any of your games, but as a Dane I'm interested in his development. How is his level after the injury?

 

He's been great

 

And that's the thing. Lambert has bought some duds, but to be fair, they've all been really cheap duds.

 

If he spends 4-5m plus, he does well. Okore, Sanchez, Benteke, Kozak, Gil by the looks of it, Vlaar.

 

You can't knock those signings. The problem is he then totally fails to get the best out of them.

 

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