Lotus Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I take your point, but there are always 11 players on a pitch. 11 professionals. 11 Men. If they need a puppet master to motivate them to do their jobs well, well then.......... Good point! That's why people who are good at motivating others ar held in such disregard. There's just no need! How are you motivated to do your job? Im not saying a good half time team talk doesnt have an effect. What im saying is, so does your MASSIVE salary, your MASSIVE bonuses, a big crowd, and most importantly, you should be motivated as a professional. Said more simply. There are 12 people to blame for our exit. Not 1. Sport psychology not a strong point for you then? Ok, you're right. The players have nothing to do with it. Football is just like playing Fifa, with 1 man solely responsible for success. Apologies No. We both know neither of us has said anything like that or pointed to either extreme. If the players occasionally had put in somewhat ineffectual displays, especially against 'lesser sides' we could probably point to their complacency. As it's been a feature since Pardew took over, no matter who the players have been, the weight of probability points to a leader who isn't very motivational. And that's important. SAF wasn't (apparently) the greatest tactician, he chose good coaches for that, but he definitely knew how to get his players incredibily hungry for victory and to remain focused on winning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnonel Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Gracefully step out at this point. Obviously in the minority here thinking players are as much to blame for our cup exit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 How are you motivated to do your job? I'm not, personally. Do you have kids? where's this going? i've hated my job for the last 1.5 years, absolutely hated it, but it pays well and kids are f***ing expensive not sure how that helps pardew not being able to get a team to bother their arse in cup games tbh it had nothing to do with football. Was just wondering if Polic had bairns as that's probs on of the few things that motivates me at work. Keeping them fed, clothed and sheltered! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Gracefully step out at this point. Obviously in the minority here thinking players are as much to blame for our cup exit. Every year? The way we do? Like a damp squib? With different players each time? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnonel Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I take your point, but there are always 11 players on a pitch. 11 professionals. 11 Men. If they need a puppet master to motivate them to do their jobs well, well then.......... Good point! That's why people who are good at motivating others ar held in such disregard. There's just no need! How are you motivated to do your job? Im not saying a good half time team talk doesnt have an effect. What im saying is, so does your MASSIVE salary, your MASSIVE bonuses, a big crowd, and most importantly, you should be motivated as a professional. Said more simply. There are 12 people to blame for our exit. Not 1. Sport psychology not a strong point for you then? Ok, you're right. The players have nothing to do with it. Football is just like playing Fifa, with 1 man solely responsible for success. Apologies No. We both know neither of us has said anything like that or pointed to either extreme. If the players occasionally had put in somewhat ineffectual displays, especially against 'lesser sides' we could probably point to their complacency. As it's been a feature since Pardew took over, no matter who the players have been, the weight of probability points to a leader who isn't very motivational. And that's important. SAF wasn't (apparently) the greatest tactician, he chose good coaches for that, but he definitely knew how to get his players incredibily hungry for victory and to remain focused on winning. I understand where you are coming from, but I think what you are saying is that Pardew has a VERY NEGATIVE effect on motivation/morale in cup games, because the players baseline level for a cup game should be highly motivated, given their role, their salary, their bonuses and thousands of fans singing their names.......................... RIGHT? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotus Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I take your point, but there are always 11 players on a pitch. 11 professionals. 11 Men. If they need a puppet master to motivate them to do their jobs well, well then.......... Good point! That's why people who are good at motivating others ar held in such disregard. There's just no need! How are you motivated to do your job? Im not saying a good half time team talk doesnt have an effect. What im saying is, so does your MASSIVE salary, your MASSIVE bonuses, a big crowd, and most importantly, you should be motivated as a professional. Said more simply. There are 12 people to blame for our exit. Not 1. Sport psychology not a strong point for you then? Ok, you're right. The players have nothing to do with it. Football is just like playing Fifa, with 1 man solely responsible for success. Apologies No. We both know neither of us has said anything like that or pointed to either extreme. If the players occasionally had put in somewhat ineffectual displays, especially against 'lesser sides' we could probably point to their complacency. As it's been a feature since Pardew took over, no matter who the players have been, the weight of probability points to a leader who isn't very motivational. And that's important. SAF wasn't (apparently) the greatest tactician, he chose good coaches for that, but he definitely knew how to get his players incredibily hungry for victory and to remain focused on winning. I understand where you are coming from, but I think what you are saying is that Pardew has a VERY NEGATIVE effect on motivation/morale in cup games, because the players baseline level for a cup game should be highly motivated, given their role, their salary, their bonuses and thousands of fans singing their names.......................... RIGHT? I wish the salaries were more of a motivator but i think, in effect, it does the opposite. They earn so much that glory isn't really important anymore. You can finish your career so rich that you don't care how you're remembered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Gracefully step out at this point. Obviously in the minority here thinking players are as much to blame for our cup exit. Every year? The way we do? Like a damp squib? With different players each time? No matter who the players are, the message from the top is the same. Not a priority. It's had very predictable results. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 We weren't that awesome in the cups before Pardew TBF. His tenure really isn't long enough to provide any kind of sample for decent analysis. That said, I do agree we should be focusing on winning a cup much more than we are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Crooks Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 We weren't that awesome in the cups before Pardew TBF. His tenure really isn't long enough to provide any kind of sample for decent analysis. That said, I do agree we should be focusing on winning a cup much more than we are. It's telling that it has been against lower league opposition all too often under Pardew. That second Brighton game, I just knew we were onto a loser with that team. Theres no excuse for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 We weren't that awesome in the cups before Pardew TBF. His tenure really isn't long enough to provide any kind of sample for decent analysis. I was gonna laugh at this but it's not even worth it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRD Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 We weren't that awesome in the cups before Pardew TBF. His tenure really isn't long enough to provide any kind of sample for decent analysis. I was gonna laugh at this but it's not even worth it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Cheers then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 We weren't that awesome in the cups before Pardew TBF. His tenure really isn't long enough to provide any kind of sample for decent analysis. I was gonna laugh at this but it's not even worth it. We haven't played enough cup ties in his tenure to provide any kind of sample for decent analysis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I'm not denying we've been rubbish in the cups, obviously we have. But that's been the case for most of my life. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 There are different levels of rubbish - I can recall various quarter finals, semi finals and finals we've got to since I was old enough to start following the club. I think Pardew has had 7 chances now and we've never made it past the second hurdle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Even Souness got us to a semi-final and roeder into 2 1/4 finals. We can't even get past the 4th round without being knocked out by some lower league team under Pardew. Big contrast. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 If the board aren't arsed about it how can you expect the players and management to be? Pardew hasn't started his strongest side in the cup once & we've done literally nothing in them, if the club were arsed surely he'd be bollocked for it & our priorities would change? They said in the fans forum it wasn't a priority, it's just a shame they never published the fans reply, The prize money for the league cup is £100'000. Mike Ashley wouldn't get out of his scratcher for that kind of money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponsaelius Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Even Souness got us to a semi-final and roeder into 2 1/4 finals. We can't even get past the 4th round without being knocked out by some lower league team under Pardew. Big contrast. Last 16 under Roeder Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest neesy111 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Even Souness got us to a semi-final and roeder into 2 1/4 finals. We can't even get past the 4th round without being knocked out by some lower league team under Pardew. Big contrast. Last under 16 Roeder 1/4 final of FA Cup 05/06. 1/4 of league cup 06/07. Last 16 of Europa League 06/07. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 If the board aren't arsed about it how can you expect the players and management to be? Pardew hasn't started his strongest side in the cup once & we've done literally nothing in them, if the club were arsed surely he'd be bollocked for it & our priorities would change? They said in the fans forum it wasn't a priority, it's just a shame they never published the fans reply, The prize money for the league cup is £100'000. Mike Ashley wouldn't get out of his scratcher for that kind of money. this post beggars belief, it's actually borderline unbelievable to me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 If the board aren't arsed about it how can you expect the players and management to be? Pardew hasn't started his strongest side in the cup once & we've done literally nothing in them, if the club were arsed surely he'd be bollocked for it & our priorities would change? They said in the fans forum it wasn't a priority, it's just a shame they never published the fans reply, The prize money for the league cup is £100'000. Mike Ashley wouldn't get out of his scratcher for that kind of money. this post beggars belief, it's actually borderline unbelievable to me What do you find unbelievable? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Sorry, I was being a bit uncharitable actually as I forgot about our Europa run last year, which was a canny effort and about par for what I'd expect or perhaps even a round further. Still feel like the negative tactics 2nd leg against Benfica weren't necessary though - you'll never convince me that a 20 minute blast beats a concerted 90 minute effort as an approach because that's not the way I look at football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 If the board aren't arsed about it how can you expect the players and management to be? Pardew hasn't started his strongest side in the cup once & we've done literally nothing in them, if the club were arsed surely he'd be bollocked for it & our priorities would change? They said in the fans forum it wasn't a priority, it's just a shame they never published the fans reply, The prize money for the league cup is £100'000. Mike Ashley wouldn't get out of his scratcher for that kind of money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 If the board aren't arsed about it how can you expect the players and management to be? Pardew hasn't started his strongest side in the cup once & we've done literally nothing in them, if the club were arsed surely he'd be bollocked for it & our priorities would change? They said in the fans forum it wasn't a priority, it's just a shame they never published the fans reply, The prize money for the league cup is £100'000. Mike Ashley wouldn't get out of his scratcher for that kind of money. this post beggars belief, it's actually borderline unbelievable to me What do you find unbelievable? i find it staggering that a fan of a football team could write this, i believe a paying ST holder no less? "how can we expect the players and management" to be bothered about playing in the cups? holy fuck, because that's their job and 1,000's people come to watch the team try to win - the players i partially understand because they have the spectre of doom telling them how tired they are, how they can't compete, and that the cups aren't important...you're basically accepting that the man has no integrity as a football manager, you understand that right? as for the bit in red, on top of acknowledging the man is a puppet/fraud you're also accepting he's a shit manager because when he changes the team in the cup we're essentially doomed to fail so his record goes - he's a manager who can only get a performance out of a tiny group of people, and that's if mike and joe tell him it's ok to do so what do you think poyet would have done if ellis short had said the game at OT last night wasn't a priority? i've never, in all my years of watching football, so much as heard of a manager who danced to the owners tune like pardew it's fucking sickening Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Haris Vuckic Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 If the board aren't arsed about it how can you expect the players and management to be? Pardew hasn't started his strongest side in the cup once & we've done literally nothing in them, if the club were arsed surely he'd be bollocked for it & our priorities would change? They said in the fans forum it wasn't a priority, it's just a shame they never published the fans reply, The prize money for the league cup is £100'000. Mike Ashley wouldn't get out of his scratcher for that kind of money. this post beggars belief, it's actually borderline unbelievable to me What do you find unbelievable? i find it staggering that a fan of a football team could write this, i believe a paying ST holder no less? "how can we expect the players and management" to be bothered about playing in the cups? holy f***, because that's their job and 1,000's people come to watch the team try to win - the players i partially understand because they have the spectre of doom telling them how tired they are, how they can't compete, and that the cups aren't important...you're basically accepting that the man has no integrity as a football manager, you understand that right? as for the bit in red, on top of acknowledging the man is a puppet/fraud you're also accepting he's a s*** manager because when he changes the team in the cup we're essentially doomed to fail so his record goes - he's a manager who can only get a performance out of a tiny group of people, and that's if mike and joe tell him it's ok to do so what do you think poyet would have done if ellis short had said the game at OT last night wasn't a priority? i've never, in all my years of watching football, so much as heard of a manager who danced to the owners tune like pardew it's f***ing sickening Where was I excusing it? I'm just telling you how it is. This is the reality and if you don't like it don't shoot the messenger. If you're staggered that I can comprehend how my football team works I'm equally staggered that you can't. It's grim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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