Froggy Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 But he is just as important to Man United as Ronaldo is to Madrid or Messi to Barca. It's all relative. Why? You have him now and you're sat in 7th? Every team has a bad season once in a while. We finished 15 points behind Arsenal a year after winning the league in the not so distant past as well. Moyes will get it right, and even if he doesn't you know we have the pull to bring someone in who will. I'd say enjoy it while it lasts, but I know you are anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 If someone like Shearer was in prime and still at Newcastle, don't you think you would give everything you possibly could to keep him? Of course we wouldn't He would've been shipped for 12 million quid at the earliest possible opportunity. I kinda forgot about Ashley and Pardew for a second there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I can't think of anyone clearly better than him outside of Messi and Ronaldo. He's top bracket. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 That's completely different. Rooney isn't as good as Ronaldo or Messi, but he's still in the bracket of the Worlds top players. Cabaye isn't. If someone like Shearer was in prime and still at Newcastle, don't you think you would give everything you possibly could to keep him? I disagree tbh. Brilliant at PL level. Has he ever been the difference in CL KO rounds or for England in the last 3/4 tournaments? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minhosa Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I can't think of anyone clearly better than him outside of Messi and Ronaldo. He's top bracket. Genuine question..............would you take Rooney over: Aguero Ibra Suarez Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 That's completely different. Rooney isn't as good as Ronaldo or Messi, but he's still in the bracket of the Worlds top players. Cabaye isn't. If someone like Shearer was in prime and still at Newcastle, don't you think you would give everything you possibly could to keep him? Thinking about it now I disagree even that Rooney is as important to United as Messi or Ronaldo. I don't think he would be that massive a loss tbh. He is very good but as a number 10, is he better than Mata? I don't think he is. As a striker where he rarely plays anymore is he better than van Persie? Not a hope Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Those 3 are all about the same level. I'd probably rather have Rooney than any of them if pushed, though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Those 3 are all about the same level. I'd probably rather have Rooney than any of them if pushed, though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 But he is just as important to Man United as Ronaldo is to Madrid or Messi to Barca. It's all relative. Why? You have him now and you're sat in 7th? Every team has a bad season once in a while. We finished 15 points behind Arsenal a year after winning the league in the not so distant past as well. Moyes will get it right, and even if he doesn't you know we have the pull to bring someone in who will. I'd say enjoy it while it lasts, but I know you are anyway. My point is you need a hell of a lot more than Wayne Rooney to get back to the place where your trophy starved fans dictate where you should be. And while you'll get away with no Champion's League football for a while, merely because of the club's name and standing, to attract the kind of players that will win you titles, the window will get smaller and smaller. I think you're finished if you don't spend massive this summer, when I say massive I mean more than Man City, Chelsea and even Liverpool. The question is, do the Glazers trust Moyes enough to fund him? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 That's completely different. Rooney isn't as good as Ronaldo or Messi, but he's still in the bracket of the Worlds top players. Cabaye isn't. If someone like Shearer was in prime and still at Newcastle, don't you think you would give everything you possibly could to keep him? Thinking about it now I disagree even that Rooney is as important to United as Messi or Ronaldo. I don't think he would be that massive a loss tbh. He is very good but as a number 10, is he better than Mata? I don't think he is. As a striker where he rarely plays anymore is he better than van Persie? Not a hope Honestly, you just don't watch us enough if you think he wouldn't be a massive loss. As a striker no he isn't better than Van Persie. How many are? Don't forget when we played Rooney up top he banged in 34 goals on two separate occasions. As a #10, he's just as good as Mata, but I think that's irrelevant anyway. He brings goals and assists aplenty, and you can guarantee he'll be the last one chasing the ball or defending like his life is on the line when it's required. You could say that you shouldn't judge a forward player on defensive capabilities, but I judge Rooney as a complete player. He has absolutely everything, and he's a cut above almost everybody in the Premier League. The evidence of how we play without him is proof of how important he is. The last few times we've dropped points have had nothing to do with him, it's been the fault of the defence, namely Vidic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 That's completely different. Rooney isn't as good as Ronaldo or Messi, but he's still in the bracket of the Worlds top players. Cabaye isn't. If someone like Shearer was in prime and still at Newcastle, don't you think you would give everything you possibly could to keep him? Thinking about it now I disagree even that Rooney is as important to United as Messi or Ronaldo. I don't think he would be that massive a loss tbh. He is very good but as a number 10, is he better than Mata? I don't think he is. As a striker where he rarely plays anymore is he better than van Persie? Not a hope Honestly, you just don't watch us enough if you think he wouldn't be a massive loss. As a striker no he isn't better than Van Persie. How many are? Don't forget when we played Rooney up top he banged in 34 goals on two separate occasions. As a #10, he's just as good as Mata, but I think that's irrelevant anyway. He brings goals and assists aplenty, and you can guarantee he'll be the last one chasing the ball or defending like his life is on the line when it's required. You could say that you shouldn't judge a forward player on defensive capabilities, but I judge Rooney as a complete player. He has absolutely everything, and he's a cut above almost everybody in the Premier League. The evidence of how we play without him is proof of how important he is. The last few times we've dropped points have had nothing to do with him, it's been the fault of the defence, namely Vidic. So what was the point in buying Mata? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizero Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Rooney's top class and the best player on Man Utd. Still a few players on other teams I'd place on a tier above him, though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 2 things at play here for me. One is how good Rooney is. He's good - he's very, very good - but he's not on the current level of Ibra, Suarez, Aguero etc. He threatened to be, and he really should be in the top 5 players in the world, but for whatever reason he hasn't fulfilled his potential. Yet, anyway. The more overriding factor IMO is just how important he is to Man Utd. They're not going to get anyone better so I guess this contract is necessary to keep him. Everyone has their relative worth and Rooney is absolutely vital to Man Utd, losing him would be a terrible blow. In fairness to him he's held them to ransom, good on him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Those 3 are all about the same level. I'd probably rather have Rooney than any of them if pushed, though. Wow, this is amazing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Only if you don't watch much football, and I know you don't. Get back to defending Pardew. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 So what was the point in buying Mata? Because he's a great player? Simple as. He fits in with our system and he'll be a great buy for us. Even though a midfielder is our top priority, signing Mata was a no brainer. My point is you need a hell of a lot more than Wayne Rooney to get back to the place where your trophy starved fans dictate where you should be. And while you'll get away with no Champion's League football for a while, merely because of the club's name and standing, to attract the kind of players that will win you titles, the window will get smaller and smaller. I think you're finished if you don't spend massive this summer, when I say massive I mean more than Man City, Chelsea and even Liverpool. The question is, do the Glazers trust Moyes enough to fund him? You're right, we do need to spend big. I think sanctioning the 37m signing of Mata is an indication that they do trust him. If he continues in this sort of form, maybe they won't come the end of the season, and they could replace him before spending. I honestly don't know what the future will hold, but I expect Moyes to be trusted. I do think we'll get the midfielders we need in the summer and he will get it right next season. I don't think we'll win the title next season, but we'll at least challenge. That's blind faith based on this season, but you have to be positive and look forward with optimism. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I can see another couple of seasons outside the elite. He doesn't even seem to know how to use Mata. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 So what was the point in buying Mata? Because he's a great player? Simple as. He fits in with our system and he'll be a great buy for us. Even though a midfielder is our top priority, signing Mata was a no brainer. My point is you need a hell of a lot more than Wayne Rooney to get back to the place where your trophy starved fans dictate where you should be. And while you'll get away with no Champion's League football for a while, merely because of the club's name and standing, to attract the kind of players that will win you titles, the window will get smaller and smaller. I think you're finished if you don't spend massive this summer, when I say massive I mean more than Man City, Chelsea and even Liverpool. The question is, do the Glazers trust Moyes enough to fund him? You're right, we do need to spend big. I think sanctioning the 37m signing of Mata is an indication that they do trust him. If he continues in this sort of form, maybe they won't come the end of the season, and they could replace him before spending. I honestly don't know what the future will hold, but I expect Moyes to be trusted. I do think we'll get the midfielders we need in the summer and he will get it right next season. I don't think we'll win the title next season, but we'll at least challenge. That's blind faith based on this season, but you have to be positive and look forward with optimism. But what is the point in buying an attacking midfielder when your best player already plays in the same position? Mata will do alright on the wing but would be a lot better as a number 10 where he probably won't get much of a chance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 So what was the point in buying Mata? Because he's a great player? Simple as. He fits in with our system and he'll be a great buy for us. Even though a midfielder is our top priority, signing Mata was a no brainer. My point is you need a hell of a lot more than Wayne Rooney to get back to the place where your trophy starved fans dictate where you should be. And while you'll get away with no Champion's League football for a while, merely because of the club's name and standing, to attract the kind of players that will win you titles, the window will get smaller and smaller. I think you're finished if you don't spend massive this summer, when I say massive I mean more than Man City, Chelsea and even Liverpool. The question is, do the Glazers trust Moyes enough to fund him? You're right, we do need to spend big. I think sanctioning the 37m signing of Mata is an indication that they do trust him. If he continues in this sort of form, maybe they won't come the end of the season, and they could replace him before spending. I honestly don't know what the future will hold, but I expect Moyes to be trusted. I do think we'll get the midfielders we need in the summer and he will get it right next season. I don't think we'll win the title next season, but we'll at least challenge. That's blind faith based on this season, but you have to be positive and look forward with optimism. But now when top class players come to negotiate with Manchester United, how much are they going to ask for? Not 80 or 90 grand or even 150 grand a week anymore.......and in the scheme of things,without CL football, can Manchester United afford that ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettNUFC Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Only if you don't watch much football, and I know you don't. Get back to defending Pardew. You just get better I can't even bring myself to get in a debate with someone who feels Rooney is better than Ibra I'd even add Diego Costa to that list of players i'd take over Rooney. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I can see another couple of seasons outside the elite. He doesn't even seem to know how to use Mata. And of course it gets harder and harder to compete with the top 4 year on year the longer you're not in it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Froggy Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 But now when top class players come to negotiate with Manchester United, how much are they going to ask for? Not 80 or 90 grand or even 150 grand a week anymore.......and in the scheme of things,without CL football, can Manchester United afford that ? Of course we can afford it, and I think we'll spend it because we simply have to. I'm expecting there to be a bit of a clear out in the summer as well that will free up 200-300k per week in wages as well. Like I said though I don't know what's going to happen. Worst case scenario is we start next season with the same midfield we have now. Then we're well and truly fucked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronaldo Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I can't even bring myself to get in a debate with someone who feels Rooney is better than Ibra Nobody did. Clueless. I'd rather have Rooney in my team. End of. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 But now when top class players come to negotiate with Manchester United, how much are they going to ask for? Not 80 or 90 grand or even 150 grand a week anymore.......and in the scheme of things,without CL football, can Manchester United afford that ? Of course we can afford it, and I think we'll spend it because we simply have to. I'm expecting there to be a bit of a clear out in the summer as well that will free up 200-300k per week in wages as well. Like I said though I don't know what's going to happen. Worst case scenario is we start next season with the same midfield we have now. Then we're well and truly fucked. I think you're being typically Manchester United "supporter" flippant there. You cannot compete financially with your neighbours or Chelsea. And if you miss Champion's League qualification the gap becomes bigger and then you're not buying the highest class of player any more. And then before you know it, your attendances go down....sponsorship deals become less lucrative...and until a rich Sheikh buys you, which granted is a very good bet imo in the next 2 or 3 years, you're on the slope to mediocrity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Players choosing Man Utd is going to be a big issue IMO, they're already behind Man City and Chelsea in this country alone, possibly Arsenal for players who like nice technical football and Liverpool for some as well. Then you've got the mega-rich clubs in other countries. All of the above who will have CL football too. Add to that the charisma of David Moyes. Not an easy job to snap up enough top players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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