Moyes or Martinez?

[Guest firetotheworks]

And let's not insinuate that anyone has even suggested that Kaka.

 

He's had year upon year of being near the bottom with a crap team playing crap football.

 

Moyes the opposite.

 

I'm glad to be wrong, and wouldn't be surprised if he had Everton challenging year on year, but I think judging anyone specifically on one season of anything is foolish, as both a positive or a negative, especially when they both have a history that's ignored because it shows the opposite to your opinion.

 

Like I actually said, I'd still rather have Martinez because of our need for excitement, but that doesn't mean that anyone's right or wrong based on some hypothetical dick swinging contest. Let's just all agree that both aren't a remote possibility and both are infinitely better than the clown picking the team at the moment.

 

[TRon]

And let's not insinuate that anyone has even suggested that Kaka.

 

He's had year upon year of being near the bottom with a crap team playing crap football.

 

Moyes the opposite.

 

I'm glad to be wrong, and wouldn't be surprised if he had Everton challenging year on year, but I think judging anyone specifically on one season of anything is foolish, as both a positive or a negative, especially when they both have a history that's ignored because it shows the opposite to your opinion.

 

Like I actually said, I'd still rather have Martinez because of our need for excitement, but that doesn't mean that anyone's right or wrong based on some hypothetical dick swinging contest. Let's just all agree that both aren't a remote possibility and both are infinitely better than the clown picking the team at the moment.

 

 

I am starting to think that Moyes is a possibility for us, the biggest hurdle would be Ashley himself. No compensation to pay and a manager available who was rated right up there before this season, not to mention he is used to working within a tight owner. There is plenty of money to spend in the summer as well if Ashley wants to release it for the right manager. I think Moyes could find all that very tempting.

[Yorkie]

Worth pointing out that Martinez has achieved what he did while losing one of Everton's best performers last season in Fellaini, as well as their best defender in Jagielka. He's also brought through Barkley and Stones, who you can't say were guarantedd stars, but both have featured heavily. Let's not pretend he just threw in Lukaku on top of this outstanding team okay?

 

[Ronaldo]

Worth pointing out that Martinez has achieved what he did while losing one of Everton's best performers last season in Fellaini, as well as their best defender in Jagielka. He's also brought through Barkley and Stones, who you can't say were guarantedd stars, but both have featured heavily. Let's not pretend he just threw in Lukaku on top of this outstanding team okay?

 

Jagielka's played 36 times this season, like.

[Ronaldo]

I think people are going way, way overboard with Martinez like. He's had one season where he's gone into a team that already had things that were put in place by Moyes. I think on a level playing field I would go with Moyes based purely on his long record and Martinez possibly being a flash in the pan. Wigan were shit and I don't care what anyone says otherwise, you're just wrong.

 

Well said. Proud of you, man.

[Ronaldo]

They constantly looked like getting relegated, survived on the last day twice and then finally went down. They were shit.

[Cajun]

Worth pointing out that Martinez has achieved what he did while losing one of Everton's best performers last season in Fellaini, as well as their best defender in Jagielka. He's also brought through Barkley and Stones, who you can't say were guarantedd stars, but both have featured heavily. Let's not pretend he just threw in Lukaku on top of this outstanding team okay?

 

Jagielka's played 36 times this season, like.

 

oops.

[Skeletor]

I always thought he got a bunch of shit players playing well above themselves. They played pretty football but were useless a lot of the time. Always turned it on against us though.

[Ronaldo]

Since when does the 'decency' of the football negate the fact a team was losing games home and away from August to April?

[triggs]

 

They constantly looked like getting relegated, survived on the last day twice and then finally went down. They were s***.

 

Whilst winning a cup and regularly playing decent football. Not s*** at all. I find this revisionism of them well weird

Any team that nearly gets relegated every season is s***. Look at how bad we and the Mackems were last season and we and them still survived ahead of them

 

[Revolution]

I think Martinez largely had a bunch of dross playing for him at Wigan. And he consistently got the dross playing very brave, positive football when they had to.

 

I'd love either here obviously but I'd side with Martinez at this time - he looks an attacking, versatile manager improving all the time.

[Ronaldo]

Since when does the 'decency' of the football negate the fact a team was losing games home and away from August to April?

 

When people completely ignore how s*** Wigan as a club is. And the resources. Won a cup. With Wigan. "s***". Total revisionism

 

Nobody said they were shit considering their resources, like. They were shit in context, though.

[Taylor Swift]

As I said in the other thread, Moyes is the easy choice for me. His record is great while Martinez's is mixed.

[triggs]

And whose fault is it they had a shit team? Maybe Martinez for buying shit players. Bruce had them 11th.

[triggs]

 

And whose fault is it they had a s*** team? Maybe Martinez for buying s*** players. Bruce had them 11th.

 

Wigan being the hotspot for attracting footballers like?

How did Bruce get them to 11th so if their players were so shit?

[Flip]

Moyes record is great while Martinez's is mixed? Right the guy basically made Swansea a Premier League club, he also won the FA Cup while year after year managing to keep Wigan in the PL despite having by far the worst squad in the league, he's also taken Everton to it's highest point total ever.

 

I'm sorry, that's not mixed. He's won a title, he's won more points in his first season than Moyes ever did.

 

And whose fault is it they had a s*** team? Maybe Martinez for buying s*** players. Bruce had them 11th.

 

When Martinez became manager they sold Valencia, Cattermole and couple other players that were there. After his first season they sold N'Zogbia, they then sold Moses. It's quite clear that he didn't necessarily build a shit club, a team of Wigan stature sometimes have to throw more money at players to attract them, so he gambled with his signings. He tried to sign cheaper players that could possibly pay off, some did some didn't. It was Martinez who brought players like McCarthy, Diame, Moses, Kone in cheap. Their recruitement style at Wigan obviously also meant some bad signings like Boselli, Di Santo and others. But I don't think it's fair to judge his ability to build a team at a club like Wigan. Matter of fact is that he's won an FA Cup, he's promoted a team to the Championship and set a foundation to a club that has become a relatively stable PL club and already in his first season gotten Everton's highest points total ever.

 

Many people talk about Lukaku here, Lukaku there, but how about the fact that they sold probably Moyes favourite player at the club as soon as he arrived?

 

I'd have Moyes here every day, but there's no doubt in my mind that if I had to chose one of them it would be Martinez all day long. Moyes also made some horrible signing during his time and I think there are few managers about who don't make bad signings.

 

[Belfast Mags]

I doubt Martinez will achieve what Moyes did in 10 years time. We need a solid performer Moyes thicks lots of boxes and he is my choice.

 

he already has, he's won the FA Cup with f***ing Wigan and Everton already have their highest ever points total with three games to go

The amount of points doesn't really matter. Well it does if it gets them into the champions league but if they finish 5th it doesn't matter in the slightest.

 

 

Beginning to think you should have changed your username to Trigger tbh 

Seriously though, points make prizes mate, it really is that simple

[Ronaldo]

Right the guy basically made Swansea a Premier League club

 

You know they'd just finished 8th in the Championship when he left there, right?

[Wullie]

Moyes record is great while Martinez's is mixed? Right the guy basically made Swansea a Premier League club, he also won the FA Cup while year after year managing to keep Wigan in the PL despite having by far the worst squad in the league, he's also taken Everton to it's highest point total ever.

 

Frightening how wrong all this is.

[triggs]

I doubt Martinez will achieve what Moyes did in 10 years time. We need a solid performer Moyes thicks lots of boxes and he is my choice.

 

he already has, he's won the FA Cup with f***ing Wigan and Everton already have their highest ever points total with three games to go

The amount of points doesn't really matter. Well it does if it gets them into the champions league but if they finish 5th it doesn't matter in the slightest.

 

 

Beginning to think you should have changed your username to Trigger tbh 

Seriously though, points make prizes mate, it really is that simple

Just read the next sentence maybe you might be able to understand what I was saying then

[Flip]

Right the guy basically made Swansea a Premier League club

 

You know they'd just finished 8th in the Championship when he left there, right?

 

I know, but you missed the point. He set the foundation and built for the long-term, do you think it was Rodgers who built that PL side? Who made them who they were? Who took them to 8th in the Championship for nothing? He's a man that doesn't just makes plan for his team, he makes a plan for the long-term for the whole club, insisting in facility and youth improvements throughout the structure.

 

[Optimistic Nut]

One thing I will say, Martinez never had Wigan looking like a PL side, so he isn't what he's being made out to be.

 

Moyes is easily the more proven manager. In an ideal world you'd want someone more attacking but I'm not convinced Martinez is any sort of Keegan replica as some would have you believe.

 

Not true IMO, Wigan often looked very good but just ended up losing a lot.

 

 

The one thing that sticks in my memory is when we played them at SJP (won 2 or 3-0 if I recall) and we had them pinned back pretty tightly, but still they refused to hoof the ball away and clear their lines.

They passed and passed in little triangles until they got an out ball and played themselves clear.

I remember being impressed by that at the time, they obviously lost too many games but they were at least trying to play the game in the right way.

 

That was the game where I thought Martinez would never make it. They had shit defenders and we forced them into 4-5 stupid mistakes in about 15 minutes, and they had no plan B. We hammered them in the end.

[Ronaldo]

Right the guy basically made Swansea a Premier League club

 

You know they'd just finished 8th in the Championship when he left there, right?

 

I know, but you missed the point. He set the foundation and built for the long-term, do you think it was Rodgers who built that PL side? Who made them who they were? Who took them to 8th in the Championship for nothing? He's a man that doesn't just makes plan for his team, he makes a plan for the long-term for the whole club, insisting in facility and youth improvements throughout the structure.

 

 

I didn't miss the point, I just wasn't sure if you actually knew the fact. Anyway, I do think that Rodgers made them a PL side with his style of football.

[Flip]

Moyes record is great while Martinez's is mixed? Right the guy basically made Swansea a Premier League club, he also won the FA Cup while year after year managing to keep Wigan in the PL despite having by far the worst squad in the league, he's also taken Everton to it's highest point total ever.

 

Frightening how wrong all this is.

 

How is it wrong? I'm not saying he got them into the PL, I'm saying he set a foundation for the club and took them from League one to a playoff challenger in the Championship. Also there's no way you can't agree they didn't have the worst squad in the league year after year.

 

Oh, and the bold part 

[Flip]

Right the guy basically made Swansea a Premier League club

 

You know they'd just finished 8th in the Championship when he left there, right?

 

I know, but you missed the point. He set the foundation and built for the long-term, do you think it was Rodgers who built that PL side? Who made them who they were? Who took them to 8th in the Championship for nothing? He's a man that doesn't just makes plan for his team, he makes a plan for the long-term for the whole club, insisting in facility and youth improvements throughout the structure.

 

 

I didn't miss the point, I just wasn't sure if you actually knew the fact. Anyway, I do think that Rodgers made them a PL side with his style of football.

 

Fair enough if you think that, although I'm pretty sure Brendan at one point said that he was very thankful for Martinez establishing a footprint at Swansea which helped him succeed. Might be completely wrong here, but I'm close to certain it was right. (as I said though, might be dreaming on this point).