Yorkie Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Finishing mid-table is fine in itself - lots of clubs would kill to be mid-table Premier League. 10th in itself isn't a problem. Our current squad is roughly at that level. The main problem is the club's ethos, which is seeping out of every employee. Ashley's regime craves mediocrity and have no intentions of chasing success, that's what winds us up. Pardew was complicit in all this which, combined with his style of play and twattish personality, made us hate him. He showed no shame in slowly strangling the soul out of our club. A "well, it could be worse" attitude has captured some of our sheep fans. Just because things could be worse doesn't mean supporters should just accept things. Man Utd fans were right to be unhappy at 7th place, even though most other clubs would love that. It's all in proportion, really. But with Pardew, we had enough of a sample size to see what he really is - a gobshite tactical dinosaur who sometimes won games with the good players at his disposal. He may win a few at Palace and Carver may continue the freefall, but it's bloody wonderful to know he's gone. Let's not re-write history. And this I agree with. But Pardew didn't create these problems but yet he is the villain. He's an awful manager. When we get the next guy - if the policy is exactly the same which I believe it will be... will we be happier if maybe the football is a bit better? If we lose to Chelsea but beat relegation teams? A more regular type of midtable mediocrity like Stoke rather than the ups and downs of Pardew? So that's why for me - I say Pardew is a mediocre PL manager. He could do a passable job for a number of PL teams and imo - based on how our club is run - he did a barebones job here. He wasn't awful. When we get a new manager, I don't think we'll do much better under Ashley. That's why i've always banged-on about him being the symptom. He's gone and we are still rotten to the core. If a new man came and decided to buck the trend and go for the cups I would love it. He's the NikNak to Ashley's Scaramanga. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Excellent reference. Wonder if Ashley has three nipples? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 After skimming TCD's recent guff, I looked back in this thread to see what he had to say about Pardew back when he was doing his "best" with us. Skimming a good 20-30 pages or so from a few different days, I couldn't find a single post from him. I deride two things from that: 1) Halcyon days for the forum because he kept his fat fingers away from a thread and 2) he probably always was a Pardew supporter, and the worst kind who pipes down when he was breaking terrible records left, right and centre and now pops up to tell us how he "wasn't all that bad". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Finishing mid-table is fine in itself - lots of clubs would kill to be mid-table Premier League. 10th in itself isn't a problem. Our current squad is roughly at that level. The main problem is the club's ethos, which is seeping out of every employee. Ashley's regime craves mediocrity and have no intentions of chasing success, that's what winds us up. Pardew was complicit in all this which, combined with his style of play and twattish personality, made us hate him. He showed no shame in slowly strangling the soul out of our club. A "well, it could be worse" attitude has captured some of our sheep fans. Just because things could be worse doesn't mean supporters should just accept things. Man Utd fans were right to be unhappy at 7th place, even though most other clubs would love that. It's all in proportion, really. But with Pardew, we had enough of a sample size to see what he really is - a gobshite tactical dinosaur who sometimes won games with the good players at his disposal. He may win a few at Palace and Carver may continue the freefall, but it's bloody wonderful to know he's gone. Let's not re-write history. And this I agree with. But Pardew didn't create these problems but yet he is the villain. He's an awful manager. When we get the next guy - if the policy is exactly the same which I believe it will be... will we be happier if maybe the football is a bit better? If we lose to Chelsea but beat relegation teams? A more regular type of midtable mediocrity like Stoke rather than the ups and downs of Pardew? So that's why for me - I say Pardew is a mediocre PL manager. He could do a passable job for a number of PL teams and imo - based on how our club is run - he did a barebones job here. He wasn't awful. When we get a new manager, I don't think we'll do much better under Ashley. That's why i've always banged-on about him being the symptom. He's gone and we are still rotten to the core. If a new man came and decided to buck the trend and go for the cups I would love it. If you're a manager who can beat the dross consistently then you have a platform to push on and try to get somewhere a la Moyes and Everton. Pardew's mid table has to depend on big results and streaks rather than consistency and that will always fail in the long run, which is why his career is the way is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andymc1 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 After skimming TCD's recent guff, I looked back in this thread to see what he had to say about Pardew back when he was doing his "best" with us. Skimming a good 20-30 pages or so from a few different days, I couldn't find a single post from him. I deride two things from that: 1) Halcyon days for the forum because he kept his fat fingers away from a thread and 2) he probably always was a Pardew supporter, and the worst kind who pipes down when he was breaking terrible records left, right and centre and now pops up to tell us how he "wasn't all that bad". How can this be? He makes some of the most erudite points on this forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 He'll never live that down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Also, the problem with having no ambition is that the focus then inevitably switches to entertainment value of each individual match. I have accepted we're never going to win anything, so it's even more important that the club is respectable and the team is watchable. Sadly at the moment we have none of these things. I don't believe this to be true. Ambition is the name of the game. Would we be a happy set of fans if we where Southampton last season and Swansea this season? Nope. Not me. Surely it depends on the manager we appoint? If we showed some ambition and got someone highly rated in - Tuchel, Garde, Jemez etc - there is absolutely no doubt in my mind the manager would extract more from each player we have and we'd do a fair bit better than Pardew (in terms of style of play/entertainment and points). The only one we've contacted is Garde. And his team have been a lot better since he's left. The other strong rumour is Steve McLaren. Who has failed at all of his "big" jobs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Also, the problem with having no ambition is that the focus then inevitably switches to entertainment value of each individual match. I have accepted we're never going to win anything, so it's even more important that the club is respectable and the team is watchable. Sadly at the moment we have none of these things. I don't believe this to be true. Ambition is the name of the game. Would we be a happy set of fans if we where Southampton last season and Swansea this season? Nope. Not me. I'd be a lot happier than I am now. Obviously ambition is better, but we don't have any. So in the meantime I'd like to enjoy the match. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Also, the problem with having no ambition is that the focus then inevitably switches to entertainment value of each individual match. I have accepted we're never going to win anything, so it's even more important that the club is respectable and the team is watchable. Sadly at the moment we have none of these things. I don't believe this to be true. Ambition is the name of the game. Would we be a happy set of fans if we where Southampton last season and Swansea this season? Nope. Not me. Surely it depends on the manager we appoint? If we showed some ambition and got someone highly rated in - Tuchel, Garde, Jemez etc - there is absolutely no doubt in my mind the manager would extract more from each player we have and we'd do a fair bit better than Pardew (in terms of style of play/entertainment and points). The only one we've contacted is Garde. And his team have been a lot better since he's left. The other strong rumour is Steve McLaren. Who has failed at all of his "big" jobs. thought this had been covered by people more knowledgeable of the french league than your good self, accepted wisdom is that the current lyon team is benefitting massively from the work garde did in his time as manager Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Also, the problem with having no ambition is that the focus then inevitably switches to entertainment value of each individual match. I have accepted we're never going to win anything, so it's even more important that the club is respectable and the team is watchable. Sadly at the moment we have none of these things. I don't believe this to be true. Ambition is the name of the game. Would we be a happy set of fans if we where Southampton last season and Swansea this season? Nope. Not me. Surely it depends on the manager we appoint? If we showed some ambition and got someone highly rated in - Tuchel, Garde, Jemez etc - there is absolutely no doubt in my mind the manager would extract more from each player we have and we'd do a fair bit better than Pardew (in terms of style of play/entertainment and points). The only one we've contacted is Garde. And his team have been a lot better since he's left. The other strong rumour is Steve McLaren. Who has failed at all of his "big" jobs. thought this had been covered by people more knowledgeable of the french league than your good self, accepted wisdom is that the current lyon team is benefitting massively from the work garde did in his time as manager The same is true of Taylor before Wenger, Moyes before Martinez. So it could go either way. From the little I know, Garde seems to be the typcial defensive French manager. The new man has let them off their leash. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Also, the problem with having no ambition is that the focus then inevitably switches to entertainment value of each individual match. I have accepted we're never going to win anything, so it's even more important that the club is respectable and the team is watchable. Sadly at the moment we have none of these things. I don't believe this to be true. Ambition is the name of the game. Would we be a happy set of fans if we where Southampton last season and Swansea this season? Nope. Not me. Surely it depends on the manager we appoint? If we showed some ambition and got someone highly rated in - Tuchel, Garde, Jemez etc - there is absolutely no doubt in my mind the manager would extract more from each player we have and we'd do a fair bit better than Pardew (in terms of style of play/entertainment and points). The only one we've contacted is Garde. And his team have been a lot better since he's left. The other strong rumour is Steve McLaren. Who has failed at all of his "big" jobs. thought this had been covered by people more knowledgeable of the french league than your good self, accepted wisdom is that the current lyon team is benefitting massively from the work garde did in his time as manager The same is true of Taylor before Wenger, Moyes before Martinez. So it could go either way. From the little I know, Garde seems to be the typcial defensive French manager. The new man has let them off their leash. the point is irrelevant anyway, about how they were after he left....he spent 3 years cutting big earners and bringing on youth players while achieving relative success with league positions - basically everything we'd want him to do at our place (we the shithouse owners obviously) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Also, the problem with having no ambition is that the focus then inevitably switches to entertainment value of each individual match. I have accepted we're never going to win anything, so it's even more important that the club is respectable and the team is watchable. Sadly at the moment we have none of these things. I don't believe this to be true. Ambition is the name of the game. Would we be a happy set of fans if we where Southampton last season and Swansea this season? Nope. Not me. Surely it depends on the manager we appoint? If we showed some ambition and got someone highly rated in - Tuchel, Garde, Jemez etc - there is absolutely no doubt in my mind the manager would extract more from each player we have and we'd do a fair bit better than Pardew (in terms of style of play/entertainment and points). The only one we've contacted is Garde. And his team have been a lot better since he's left. The other strong rumour is Steve McLaren. Who has failed at all of his "big" jobs. thought this had been covered by people more knowledgeable of the french league than your good self, accepted wisdom is that the current lyon team is benefitting massively from the work garde did in his time as manager The same is true of Taylor before Wenger, Moyes before Martinez. So it could go either way. From the little I know, Garde seems to be the typcial defensive French manager. The new man has let them off their leash. the point is irrelevant anyway, about how they were after he left....he spent 3 years cutting big earners and bringing on youth players while achieving relative success with league positions - basically everything we'd want him to do at our place (we the shithouse owners obviously) So like I said. Midtable, average style of play but bringing through youth players. That's not exciting mate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Also, the problem with having no ambition is that the focus then inevitably switches to entertainment value of each individual match. I have accepted we're never going to win anything, so it's even more important that the club is respectable and the team is watchable. Sadly at the moment we have none of these things. I don't believe this to be true. Ambition is the name of the game. Would we be a happy set of fans if we where Southampton last season and Swansea this season? Nope. Not me. Surely it depends on the manager we appoint? If we showed some ambition and got someone highly rated in - Tuchel, Garde, Jemez etc - there is absolutely no doubt in my mind the manager would extract more from each player we have and we'd do a fair bit better than Pardew (in terms of style of play/entertainment and points). The only one we've contacted is Garde. And his team have been a lot better since he's left. The other strong rumour is Steve McLaren. Who has failed at all of his "big" jobs. thought this had been covered by people more knowledgeable of the french league than your good self, accepted wisdom is that the current lyon team is benefitting massively from the work garde did in his time as manager The same is true of Taylor before Wenger, Moyes before Martinez. So it could go either way. From the little I know, Garde seems to be the typcial defensive French manager. The new man has let them off their leash. the point is irrelevant anyway, about how they were after he left....he spent 3 years cutting big earners and bringing on youth players while achieving relative success with league positions - basically everything we'd want him to do at our place (we the shithouse owners obviously) So like I said. Midtable, average style of play but bringing through youth players. That's not exciting mate. can't say i've seen his teams play but i'd be utterly astounded if they were pardew levels of eye aids to be honest i'm not sure there's anyone on the planet who can quite suck the joy out of football like alan pardew, so garde would be an improvement on him anyways Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Big Sam had a good go, to be fair to him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Pretty sure a French poster came on here and delineated why Lyon are basically playing Garde's football now. Lyon have scored 1 more goal than they did last season with 8 games to go. Their GD is +33 compared to +12 of last season. Now I can't talk about style of play but they're scoring way more and conceding way less. Clearly they've improved in all areas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Garde isn't at all defensive, like. Like all teams, his side put in the odd defensive display, but they generally played very good stuff. Well, at least when I was more connected to French football they were. They're scoring more because they have Fekir over the likes of Gomis playing with a more mature Lacazette. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Incandenza Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Look at it from this angle: Do you think Pardew could have replicated Garde's success at Lyon? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilikenewcastle Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I'm surprised at how much enthusiasm there's been for Garde from people who are desperate to avoid an unambitious choice for the manager's job. He is one the most underwhelming candidates that's been mentioned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Look at it from this angle: Do you think Pardew could have replicated Garde's success at Lyon? What success? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Incandenza Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Look at it from this angle: Do you think Pardew could have replicated Garde's success at Lyon? What success? Rebuilding the squad with youth whilst maintaining good league finishes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Look at it from this angle: Do you think Pardew could have replicated Garde's success at Lyon? What success? Well two trophies for a start Don't bother with him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Also, the problem with having no ambition is that the focus then inevitably switches to entertainment value of each individual match. I have accepted we're never going to win anything, so it's even more important that the club is respectable and the team is watchable. Sadly at the moment we have none of these things. I don't believe this to be true. Ambition is the name of the game. Would we be a happy set of fans if we where Southampton last season and Swansea this season? Nope. Not me. Surely it depends on the manager we appoint? If we showed some ambition and got someone highly rated in - Tuchel, Garde, Jemez etc - there is absolutely no doubt in my mind the manager would extract more from each player we have and we'd do a fair bit better than Pardew (in terms of style of play/entertainment and points). The only one we've contacted is Garde. And his team have been a lot better since he's left. The other strong rumour is Steve McLaren. Who has failed at all of his "big" jobs. thought this had been covered by people more knowledgeable of the french league than your good self, accepted wisdom is that the current lyon team is benefitting massively from the work garde did in his time as manager The same is true of Taylor before Wenger, Moyes before Martinez. So it could go either way. From the little I know, Garde seems to be the typcial defensive French manager. The new man has let them off their leash. Can you please explain what you mean by Taylor before Wenger ? Thanks in advance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sempuki Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Excellent reference. Wonder if Ashley has three nipples? If he does he will get his minions such as Penfold to suckle on them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Can you please explain what you mean by Taylor before Wenger ? Thanks in advance. No he can't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Also, the problem with having no ambition is that the focus then inevitably switches to entertainment value of each individual match. I have accepted we're never going to win anything, so it's even more important that the club is respectable and the team is watchable. Sadly at the moment we have none of these things. I don't believe this to be true. Ambition is the name of the game. Would we be a happy set of fans if we where Southampton last season and Swansea this season? Nope. Not me. Surely it depends on the manager we appoint? If we showed some ambition and got someone highly rated in - Tuchel, Garde, Jemez etc - there is absolutely no doubt in my mind the manager would extract more from each player we have and we'd do a fair bit better than Pardew (in terms of style of play/entertainment and points). The only one we've contacted is Garde. And his team have been a lot better since he's left. The other strong rumour is Steve McLaren. Who has failed at all of his "big" jobs. thought this had been covered by people more knowledgeable of the french league than your good self, accepted wisdom is that the current lyon team is benefitting massively from the work garde did in his time as manager The same is true of Taylor before Wenger, Moyes before Martinez. So it could go either way. From the little I know, Garde seems to be the typcial defensive French manager. The new man has let them off their leash. Can you please explain what you mean by Taylor before Wenger ? Thanks in advance. Guessing he means Rioch? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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