Guest HTT II Posted June 15, 2022 Share Posted June 15, 2022 54 minutes ago, ilikenewcastle said: I'm happy for U21 managers to be promoted IF they do a good job. Southgate did not when it came to tournaments - he did worse than Stuart Pearce with a better side (at a time when our other youth teams were winning trophies). Nobody can say Southgate has not done more good than bad, but when the bad happens, people will inevitably (rightly or wrongly) question his credentials and why he got the job/if there's anyone more qualified. He did relatively well in a proper job at Boro, as his first stint as a manager! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucasol Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 16 hours ago, HTT II said: He did relatively well in a proper job at Boro, as his first stint as a manager! Relegation? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 Just now, Nucasol said: Relegation? Rafa Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucasol Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 Rafa had 10 games to keep us up, got us straight back up and kept us up. Southgate relegated them after 3 seasons which shows a negative trend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ9 Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 So much of the Southgate hate is from our knuckle dragged fans that don’t like how “woke” he is or whatever, and though I would always defend the job he’s done to date, questions do need ti be asked. However, he’s going nowhere till after the World Cup. We don’t have a defence capable of winning it and there are a number of very strong teams out there so I don’t really get what people want. We’re still technically quite far behind other countries iyam. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 27 minutes ago, Nucasol said: Rafa had 10 games to keep us up, got us straight back up and kept us up. Southgate relegated them after 3 seasons which shows a negative trend. And then he went and got his country to a semi and a final, positive trend… Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucasol Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 Just now, HTT II said: And then he went and got his country to a semi and a final, positive trend… Completely agree. But using Southgate’s time at the Beasts as a barometer carries limited relevance. Massimo Maccarone isn’t Harry Kane. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ9 Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 1 minute ago, Nucasol said: Completely agree. But using Southgate’s time at the Beasts as a barometer carries limited relevance. Massimo Maccarone isn’t Harry Kane. The beasts ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 3 minutes ago, Nucasol said: Completely agree. But using Southgate’s time at the Beasts as a barometer carries limited relevance. Massimo Maccarone isn’t Harry Kane. He had a very good record with England under 21s and has only lost 12 times with the senior team. I think he’s probably better suited to international football and I imagine when he leaves England he will end up as some academy director or in charge of the whole England set up behind the scenes. He’s not a bad manager or coach, he’s just not elite and that’s the problem really as not many are, Mancini is and they won the Euros but failed to qualify for the WC and were beaten 5-2 by a Germany side we drew with recently and beat at the Euros. It’s very thin margins in international football. I don’t think success is guaranteed even if you have the best players and best manager. It’s about progress for me and under Southgate we’ve made massive strides and for me personally given that during the Ashley era I practically gave up on football and fell out of love with the game, England under Southgate become my footy fix so I’ll always regard him in high esteem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucasol Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 1 minute ago, HTT II said: He had a very good record with England under 21s and has only lost 12 times with the senior team. I think he’s probably better suited to international football and I imagine when he leaves England he will end up as some academy director or in charge of the whole England set up behind the scenes. He’s not a bad manager or coach, he’s just not elite and that’s the problem really as not many are, Mancini is and they won the Euros but failed to qualify for the WC and were beaten 5-2 by a Germany side we drew with recently and beat at the Euros. It’s very thin margins in international football. I don’t think success is guaranteed even if you have the best players and best manager. It’s about progress for me and under Southgate we’ve made massive strides and for me personally given that during the Ashley era I practically gave up on football and fell out of love with the game, England under Southgate become my footy fix so I’ll always regard him in high esteem. Fair enough, I’ve got nothing against him and was desperate for SBR to sign him as a player. Enjoyed the WC and Euros runs but Italy in the final felt like watching a re-run of the Croatia game so started to suspect some capability limitations at that point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 Just now, Nucasol said: Fair enough, I’ve got nothing against him and was desperate for SBR to sign him as a player. Enjoyed the WC and Euros runs but Italy in the final felt like watching a re-run of the Croatia game so started to suspect some capability limitations at that point. Aye he was a very good player in his day and yes that final, we lacked balls I’d say in that we could have killed them off. He’s too conservative and needs to change that somehow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HTT II Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 10 minutes ago, AJ9 said: The beasts ? I’ve not heard them referred to that since the early 2000s which I think we regularly did back then. The mackems were called the unwashed I think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 5 minutes ago, HTT II said: Aye he was a very good player in his day and yes that final, we lacked balls I’d say in that we could have killed them off. He’s too conservative and needs to change that somehow. I wouldn't hold my breath based on the link below ... https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jun/15/englands-drubbing-by-hungary-shows-risk-of-over-attacking-warns-southgate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 23 minutes ago, AJ9 said: So much of the Southgate hate is from our knuckle dragged fans that don’t like how “woke” he is or whatever, and though I would always defend the job he’s done to date, questions do need ti be asked. However, he’s going nowhere till after the World Cup. We don’t have a defence capable of winning it and there are a number of very strong teams out there so I don’t really get what people want. We’re still technically quite far behind other countries iyam. I completely agree that's where the bile comes from - personally, I just think he's an inoffensive but thoroughly mediocre manager. I like the fact he isn't a Allardyce-style wanker, and I think he's a positive force for good with his statements on issues like racism etc. Just think he's a bit crap at football management. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillingtonMag Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: I wouldn't hold my breath based on the link below ... https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jun/15/englands-drubbing-by-hungary-shows-risk-of-over-attacking-warns-southgate What a disgrace he is and how depressing. Its nothing to do with being attacking Gareth its your shite tactics and team selection. Sooner he fucks off to a mid table championship team the better. Edited June 16, 2022 by WillingtonMag Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, TheBrownBottle said: I wouldn't hold my breath based on the link below ... https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/jun/15/englands-drubbing-by-hungary-shows-risk-of-over-attacking-warns-southgate Really bad sign. Once a manager starts talking about conceding goals because the team was 'too attacking' you just know they don't really know what they're doing, as far as setting up a team to play football and create chances. Classic PFM mindset. England were not too attacking, because they never were able to consistently move the ball around and progress through the lines to continuously create chances. That is attacking football, not just throwing on more attacking players who have clearly not been instructed well enough or done the right sort of preparation to be able to use the ball to create chances and score goals, and once that inevitably fails then saying the team was too attacking. It's the same mindset of the likes of Pardew and Bruce throwing on 4 strikers at the end of games to try and get a goal, as if that automatically makes the team a more attacking outfit because more strikers are on the pitch, never mind how the team is then actually supposed to work the the ball forward up to them. Ridiculous. Edited June 16, 2022 by KaKa Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 4 minutes ago, KaKa said: Really bad sign. Once a manager starts talking about conceding goals because the team was 'too attacking' you just know they don't really know what they're doing, as far as setting up a team to play football and create chances. Classic PFM mindset. England were not too attacking, because they never were able to consistently move the ball around and progress through the lines to continuously create chances. That is attacking football, not just throwing on more attacking players who have clearly not been instructed well enough or done the right sort of preparation to be able to use the ball to create chances and score goals, and once that inevitably fails then saying the team was too attacking. It's the same mindset of the likes of Pardew and Bruce throwing on 4 strikers at the end of games to try and get a goal, as if that automatically makes the team a more attacking outfit because more strikers are on the pitch, never mind how the team is then actually supposed to work the the ball forward up to them. Ridiculous. Spot on. Remember getting thumped at home off Fulham under Souness, after he chucked on a load of forwards? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaKa Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 3 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said: Spot on. Remember getting thumped at home off Fulham under Souness, after he chucked on a load of forwards? Yeah, it happens so often with the PFMs and my goodness there have been a few at Newcastle over the years. It's really hard to believe that a manager at this level can be that completely clueless. They think attacking football is some sort of magic that occurs due to the players you play, and if you play too many of these mystical attacking players the defence suffers. They just cannot understand or recognise that this style of play actually has to be drilled into the team, and specifically worked on. I think managers that were defenders or more defensive minded midfielders just tend to have this blind spot, and get too caught up on working on defensive shape and organisation and tend to not do enough work on the offensive side of things. The sad thing is England tend to love hiring these defensive minded managers, even now with so much attacking talent. It's a damn shame. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 Football’s like a funnel, to score more goals at the narrow end you need to add more possession and more control into the top. I’ve spent too much time in marketing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloGeordio Posted June 16, 2022 Share Posted June 16, 2022 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted June 17, 2022 Share Posted June 17, 2022 Funny but not true. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 On 15/06/2022 at 16:41, HTT II said: He did relatively well in a proper job at Boro, as his first stint as a manager! Yeah he did canny there. He got one key decision wrong and that was his big money signing to get the goals was Alves. The summer before they went down they’d lost Schwarzer plus their midfield of Boateng & Cattermole (who was highly rated at the time) and had almost bugger all to spend to replace them. Relegation was always likely with squad they had. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumpersForGoalposts Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 He's apocowank. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountain Posted June 18, 2022 Share Posted June 18, 2022 On 16/06/2022 at 09:35, AJ9 said: So much of the Southgate hate is from our knuckle dragged fans that don’t like how “woke” he is or whatever, and though I would always defend the job he’s done to date, questions do need ti be asked. However, he’s going nowhere till after the World Cup. We don’t have a defence capable of winning it and there are a number of very strong teams out there so I don’t really get what people want. We’re still technically quite far behind other countries iyam. England play boring football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted June 19, 2022 Share Posted June 19, 2022 nah. i think a lot of the southgate hate stems from the fact that we had our first decent chance to win a trophy for decades and he bottled it. played it safe and admitted himself he was more concerned with not losing, than with going for the win. the players he had on the bench to change the game stayed here until they were brought on specifically for taking pens without even have gotten into the game. the italians couldnt believe their luck. the semi against croatia was also a bit of a let down, but he gets a light pass for that one as we had less quality on the bench. the defensive tactics persist. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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