Altamullan Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Those who visit RTG may have noticed recent posts by a rather savvy accountant who posts under the name Grumpy Old Man. He is currently looking at the accounts and business "philosophies" of a cross section of clubs who are in, or were recently in, the Championship, covering Birmingham,Blackburn and Derby thus far. It makes fascinating reading and shows how precarious the situation has become for some of our clubs. Grumpy has been leading the charge for a while to explain to those RTG Dim Wits who think that Short is trousering all the "para shoot " (sic) money and all the Pickford money, and explaining how Short has been propping up the club year after year. Of course anyone who even slightly challenges the notion that Short/Bain are to blame for the financial state and more so the state of the team, is immediately labeled a Mag and the pitchfork and torch Mob set upon them. His new series of posts looking at the financial situation of several clubs are great - and really explain the predicament that Sunderland find themselves in. The penny is now dropping for them (although based on their financial state, they might want to save those pennies) Ooh, that provoked a bit of a long hard look in the mirror re some of our commentary on the unmentionable (without the c word) one... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exiled in Texas Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 For those of us who don't wish to venture into the wasteland that is RTG, what is the gist of this bloke's assessment? Is it mismanagement or, in the case of Sunderland, not enough bums on seats and regular fans to make enough from ticket sales? A dearth of sponsorships? Interested to hear where these clubs have gone wrong. It's more money going out than coming in. Primarily because they Buy-High and Sell-Low. They pay high prices to get players in, and if/when they sell them the players value is always lower than what they paid and they lose money on the transfer. It was something like only 3 players out of 38-ish who were sold for a higher price than they paid. But they are in denial about the costs incurred by their frequent manager changes (All Short's fault), and also in denial about the support/attendance. They assume that 40K attendances in the PL means that their game day revenue is fine - they won't recognise that the FTM (Free Ticket Marras) is diluting their game day revenue as many of that 40K is not actually paying for the tickets. (RTG-"how can we be losing money with 40K attendances every week?") Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_NUFC Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Interesting stuff. Almost justifies Ashley's model of buying players with sell-on value Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exiled in Texas Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Kinda But it really points to the fact that Ashley has been working on a sustainable financial model (even if we don't like the results on a Saturday afternoon). Fans want more that 17th or lower-mid-table, but is it a viable financial plan to "invest" $$$ when the pay off is only $$ (or more likely $). These discussions do point out that fans see their clubs as a football club not as a business (but the business needs to be viable for the club to survive), and there are business decisions to be made that should be made with a business mindset. I do like some of the RTG rantings, that are better observed from the outside looking in (probably similar things said on here too for NUFC/Ashley too but wheres the fun in that) Invest - Short should invest more of his money in the team, and give us a team we deserve. Translated to Short should keep tipping money into the pit without any hope of seeing a financial return. Administration - If we go into Administration its the fans who suffer the most. Nope - I think its the shareholders who invested their money in the business and who lost it all who suffer the most. Spend to get promotion - They only way out of this financial mess is to spend and get back to the PL. That would be the same PL where SAFC was losing money every season. And when you are already spending more than you earn...spending even more that that is probably not the best approach But, see how the Mags spent their way to promotion, they spent 50M/80M on new players to get promoted - Yes, but they also sold 50/80M of players because they had bought quality players who they sold for a profit We are truly fooked - Yes. Yes, you are. But enjoy saying 9-1 and 6-in-a-row as that makes it all worth while. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
afar Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 One of the reasons (not the sole reason of course) that they are in this mess is that they have (and still continue in the lower league) abused the loan system. They've been bringing in too many players they don't own and helping develop them, to fix holes in their squad. These players are just taking first team opportunities away from your own youngsters or preventing them from seriously addressing holes through player purchases of their own. They like to pat themselves on the backs for developing the likes of Welbeck and Rose, but this and the fact the the general quality of the loanee has not been at that level, look at the list of players they loaned last season, has just been papering over the deficiencies and not helping them build assets that they can sell for profit. I'm glad we have not touched the loan market to much of an extent, and that on the rare occassion we do, we protect ourselves buy insisting on buyout clauses such as Atsu's and Merino's. The state of Sunderland should be a warning to a lot of clubs who continue this short term policy. Honestly think that UEFA/FIFA or the FA need to tighten up on the regulations for loans, teams like Sunderland have become over reliant on them to their long term determent while teams like Chelsea have quite frankly been abusing it from the other side. There should be tighter limits on how many you can loan in and out, and to which clubs. Chelsea wouldn't stockpile all the best talent if they couldn't loan them to top flight clubs here and abroad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exiled in Texas Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Yes - that's certainly not helping them develop players that are appreciating in value in the long term. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ_NUFC Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 Fair points about potentially having a minor regulation about amount of players you're allowed to loan out -- this would solve the problem of Chelsea hoarding players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 The mackems are fucked, they will linger down there for a long time and perhaps even drop further unless Short sells up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Where have all the mackems from on here gone? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 hithere is currently active. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLiaaamx Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Stray got a little rattled and started going full RTG didn't he? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 I’m well out of the loop, but always used to having two or three knocking about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrmojorisin75 Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Stray got a little rattled and started going full RTG didn't he? Did he? Missed that. Bummer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sho Time Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Liam didn't even say anything wrong. No need for that like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benwell Lad Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Great post from their latest (currently 308 pages) Rafa thread. https://www.readytogo.net/smb/threads/rafa-hes-still-not-happy.1386526/page-307#post-26262679 :lol: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikon Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Jesus, that was delusional even by their standards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incognito Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 Stray got a little rattled and started going full RTG didn't he? Did he? Missed that. Bummer. I thought Brexit brought out his true Sunderland, and he hasn't been seen since. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallsendmag Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 https://twitter.com/mickygray33/status/911575914848358400 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 https://twitter.com/mickygray33/status/911575914848358400 http://img47.laughinggif.com/pic/HTTP3N0cmVhbTEuZ2lmc291cC5jb20vdmlldzYvNDg1MTQ4Mi9naWRkeS1uaWNrLW9mZmVybWFuLW8uZ2lm.gif Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 https://twitter.com/mickygray33/status/911575914848358400 He'll get pelters if that isn't true. Very strange thing to tweet an hour before a home game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twinport53 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Yes, the man who puts 25 mil a season in should relinquish control. Meaning they would be in more debt. Sound idea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
morla84 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Unable to retrieve tweet marra Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsunami Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Page deleted now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenBartonCentrePartin Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 https://twitter.com/mickygray33/status/911575914848358400 Buckled. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xLiaaamx Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Michael Martin tweeting saying its unlikely. As if True Faith's resident grass knows anything Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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