Wullie Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 think pre-season should have been tougher in terms of the teams we played. I nearly posted something to that effect last week, wondered whether he was regretting us lining up what was basically a load of whipping boys. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy84 Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 We were just far too deep, Shelvey was picking it up on the edge of our penalty area a lot of the time. With Mbemba in the side and at this level we should be 10 yards further up the pitch. Huddersfield got hold of it early on and realised there was f*** all to worry about Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Trying to be completely objective about it: we've had a team that've gone from expecting to lose every week to now being expected to win each week and also playing a style that we've failed miserably at over the last decade. Add lots of new players into the mix and there will be a transition. I'd argue preseason was too easy and might've exacerbated an attitude some had that we would walk the league. Rafa should probably be looking to implement things a little bit slower than he has, in all honesty, but it's going to take some time either way. He's made it hard on himself with his selections but he's dealing with some key enigmatic players. Perez has been poor, Aarons doesn't seem settled, Gayle seems to be adjusting to a new role etc. Frankly, we need players in ASAP. A quality winger and striker are musts. We can carry an unproductive set of central midfielders but the flanks and other attacking central positions must be addressed. Ritchie is quality and is a good PL player, we need another winger of his ilk (preferably two) but with a more direct style. I don't think it's really a formational issue, if Rafa can implement his style having a 10 is better than 2 strikers, IMO. He pretty much played Perez as a striker alongside Gayle last week and we still looked garbage and struggled to stretch a deep defence. There are selection and balance problems, certainly, but quality is the biggest of them all. Big week for us. A win and 2 new players through the door can transform the situation. I can certainly see why he's making comments about players needing to relax, just need to get a win or two under the belt, even if they're scrappy, to get it going. What he said about 'unusual' movements was interesting, reminded me of the time a journo said he was perplexed as to why players were doing things completely against instruction when we played Leicester. Suggests panic within the players. i disagree. Last week 2 definte defensive CM's with another in the team. Today 2 players sitting with a hardly attacking Anita with them. Took him till hallf time at home to Huddersfield and a goal down to tell Shelvey to push on and even then he took off width to do it. I love that Rafa has made us a football club again but he's given me no confidence in 12 games. No confidence in 12 games? We spent half of those on an unbeaten run, no? Perhaps he doesn't trust his defence yet and, judging by the evidence, rightly so. They also need drilling for the new style. Don't think today was 2 sitting midfielders, Shelvey has attacking quality in this league (see the last time he was in it, tore it to pieces), he's not some sitting duck that doesn't contribute going forward. Anita I agree with, I don't like that situation - we need balance and quality on the flanks. Unbeaten run ? We beat Spurs afterwe'd been relegated and they'd exploded after losing the title. T Am I being mental here or did we not go 6 games unbeaten at the back end of last year? That's half of the current managers total games for the club, in which he's had to impart his ideas onto new players twice... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 http://i.imgur.com/GXpvPb4.png Unconvincing IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 think pre-season should have been tougher in terms of the teams we played. I nearly posted something to that effect last week, wondered whether he was regretting us lining up what was basically a load of whipping boys. I think it's one of those things that can go either way. It just looks like things were so easy and now they're struggling to find a rhythm when it matters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 We were just far too deep, Shelvey was picking it up on the edge of our penalty area a lot of the time. With Mbemba in the side and at this level we should be 10 yards further up the pitch. Huddersfield got hold of it early on and realised there was f*** all to worry about Having a higher line can work against you, though. If you're not great technically and playing against a side happy to sit deep and have as little space to play in as possible then you can just make it worse. Either one of two things needs to happen, IMO: forget the higher line and possession we seem to be going for and let teams have more ball or give it some time and get the right players in for it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Trying to be completely objective about it: we've had a team that've gone from expecting to lose every week to now being expected to win each week and also playing a style that we've failed miserably at over the last decade. Add lots of new players into the mix and there will be a transition. I'd argue preseason was too easy and might've exacerbated an attitude some had that we would walk the league. Rafa should probably be looking to implement things a little bit slower than he has, in all honesty, but it's going to take some time either way. He's made it hard on himself with his selections but he's dealing with some key enigmatic players. Perez has been poor, Aarons doesn't seem settled, Gayle seems to be adjusting to a new role etc. Frankly, we need players in ASAP. A quality winger and striker are musts. We can carry an unproductive set of central midfielders but the flanks and other attacking central positions must be addressed. Ritchie is quality and is a good PL player, we need another winger of his ilk (preferably two) but with a more direct style. I don't think it's really a formational issue, if Rafa can implement his style having a 10 is better than 2 strikers, IMO. He pretty much played Perez as a striker alongside Gayle last week and we still looked garbage and struggled to stretch a deep defence. There are selection and balance problems, certainly, but quality is the biggest of them all. Big week for us. A win and 2 new players through the door can transform the situation. I can certainly see why he's making comments about players needing to relax, just need to get a win or two under the belt, even if they're scrappy, to get it going. What he said about 'unusual' movements was interesting, reminded me of the time a journo said he was perplexed as to why players were doing things completely against instruction when we played Leicester. Suggests panic within the players. i disagree. Last week 2 definte defensive CM's with another in the team. Today 2 players sitting with a hardly attacking Anita with them. Took him till hallf time at home to Huddersfield and a goal down to tell Shelvey to push on and even then he took off width to do it. I love that Rafa has made us a football club again but he's given me no confidence in 12 games. No confidence in 12 games? We spent half of those on an unbeaten run, no? Perhaps he doesn't trust his defence yet and, judging by the evidence, rightly so. They also need drilling for the new style. Don't think today was 2 sitting midfielders, Shelvey has attacking quality in this league (see the last time he was in it, tore it to pieces), he's not some sitting duck that doesn't contribute going forward. Anita I agree with, I don't like that situation - we need balance and quality on the flanks. Unbeaten run ? We beat Spurs afterwe'd been relegated and they'd exploded after losing the title. T Am I being mental here or did we not go 6 games unbeaten at the back end of last year? That's half of the current managers total games for the club, in which he's had to impart his ideas onto new players twice... Those games...we were poor V Palace amd WBA, crap teams and we weren't better than them, Villa away, must win and at no point did we look like doing it, Liverpool couild have been out of sight by half time (that first half was as bad a 45 as I've seen NUFC play in the premier). If you look coldly at results we done well. If you look at performances....well thats something different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 We didn't play WBA under Rafa Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interpolic Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 http://i.imgur.com/GXpvPb4.png Unconvincing IMO. Yeah that was a good run, anyone who saw the games saying otherwise must be being contrary for the sake of... Oh, hang on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy84 Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Trying to be completely objective about it: we've had a team that've gone from expecting to lose every week to now being expected to win each week and also playing a style that we've failed miserably at over the last decade. Add lots of new players into the mix and there will be a transition. I'd argue preseason was too easy and might've exacerbated an attitude some had that we would walk the league. Rafa should probably be looking to implement things a little bit slower than he has, in all honesty, but it's going to take some time either way. He's made it hard on himself with his selections but he's dealing with some key enigmatic players. Perez has been poor, Aarons doesn't seem settled, Gayle seems to be adjusting to a new role etc. Frankly, we need players in ASAP. A quality winger and striker are musts. We can carry an unproductive set of central midfielders but the flanks and other attacking central positions must be addressed. Ritchie is quality and is a good PL player, we need another winger of his ilk (preferably two) but with a more direct style. I don't think it's really a formational issue, if Rafa can implement his style having a 10 is better than 2 strikers, IMO. He pretty much played Perez as a striker alongside Gayle last week and we still looked garbage and struggled to stretch a deep defence. There are selection and balance problems, certainly, but quality is the biggest of them all. Big week for us. A win and 2 new players through the door can transform the situation. I can certainly see why he's making comments about players needing to relax, just need to get a win or two under the belt, even if they're scrappy, to get it going. What he said about 'unusual' movements was interesting, reminded me of the time a journo said he was perplexed as to why players were doing things completely against instruction when we played Leicester. Suggests panic within the players. i disagree. Last week 2 definte defensive CM's with another in the team. Today 2 players sitting with a hardly attacking Anita with them. Took him till hallf time at home to Huddersfield and a goal down to tell Shelvey to push on and even then he took off width to do it. I love that Rafa has made us a football club again but he's given me no confidence in 12 games. No confidence in 12 games? We spent half of those on an unbeaten run, no? Perhaps he doesn't trust his defence yet and, judging by the evidence, rightly so. They also need drilling for the new style. Don't think today was 2 sitting midfielders, Shelvey has attacking quality in this league (see the last time he was in it, tore it to pieces), he's not some sitting duck that doesn't contribute going forward. Anita I agree with, I don't like that situation - we need balance and quality on the flanks. Unbeaten run ? We beat Spurs afterwe'd been relegated and they'd exploded after losing the title. T Am I being mental here or did we not go 6 games unbeaten at the back end of last year? That's half of the current managers total games for the club, in which he's had to impart his ideas onto new players twice... Those games...we were poor V Palace amd WBA, crap teams and we weren't better than them, Villa away, must win and at no point did we look like doing it, Liverpool couild have been out of sight by half time (that first half was as bad a 45 as I've seen NUFC play in the premier). If you look coldly at results we done well. If you look at performances....well thats something different. We were an abomination last season, to get us as close as he did was an achievement, 2 games more we would have still been a PL side. Turning NUFC around from top to bottom is going to be impossible without time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEEJ Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 maddy's having a mare. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Trying to be completely objective about it: we've had a team that've gone from expecting to lose every week to now being expected to win each week and also playing a style that we've failed miserably at over the last decade. Add lots of new players into the mix and there will be a transition. I'd argue preseason was too easy and might've exacerbated an attitude some had that we would walk the league. Rafa should probably be looking to implement things a little bit slower than he has, in all honesty, but it's going to take some time either way. He's made it hard on himself with his selections but he's dealing with some key enigmatic players. Perez has been poor, Aarons doesn't seem settled, Gayle seems to be adjusting to a new role etc. Frankly, we need players in ASAP. A quality winger and striker are musts. We can carry an unproductive set of central midfielders but the flanks and other attacking central positions must be addressed. Ritchie is quality and is a good PL player, we need another winger of his ilk (preferably two) but with a more direct style. I don't think it's really a formational issue, if Rafa can implement his style having a 10 is better than 2 strikers, IMO. He pretty much played Perez as a striker alongside Gayle last week and we still looked garbage and struggled to stretch a deep defence. There are selection and balance problems, certainly, but quality is the biggest of them all. Big week for us. A win and 2 new players through the door can transform the situation. I can certainly see why he's making comments about players needing to relax, just need to get a win or two under the belt, even if they're scrappy, to get it going. What he said about 'unusual' movements was interesting, reminded me of the time a journo said he was perplexed as to why players were doing things completely against instruction when we played Leicester. Suggests panic within the players. i disagree. Last week 2 definte defensive CM's with another in the team. Today 2 players sitting with a hardly attacking Anita with them. Took him till hallf time at home to Huddersfield and a goal down to tell Shelvey to push on and even then he took off width to do it. I love that Rafa has made us a football club again but he's given me no confidence in 12 games. No confidence in 12 games? We spent half of those on an unbeaten run, no? Perhaps he doesn't trust his defence yet and, judging by the evidence, rightly so. They also need drilling for the new style. Don't think today was 2 sitting midfielders, Shelvey has attacking quality in this league (see the last time he was in it, tore it to pieces), he's not some sitting duck that doesn't contribute going forward. Anita I agree with, I don't like that situation - we need balance and quality on the flanks. Unbeaten run ? We beat Spurs afterwe'd been relegated and they'd exploded after losing the title. T Am I being mental here or did we not go 6 games unbeaten at the back end of last year? That's half of the current managers total games for the club, in which he's had to impart his ideas onto new players twice... Those games...we were poor V Palace amd WBA, crap teams and we weren't better than them, Villa away, must win and at no point did we look like doing it, Liverpool couild have been out of sight by half time (that first half was as bad a 45 as I've seen NUFC play in the premier). If you look coldly at results we done well. If you look at performances....well thats something different. We were an abomination last season, to get us as close as he did was an achievement, 2 games more we would have still been a PL side. Turning NUFC around from top to bottom is going to be impossible without time. should still be able to get the odd point off our relegation rivals huddersfield and fulham. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 maddy's having a mare. He needs another year off the forums. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 During the unbeaten run we still weren't great going forward iirc, Spurs aside, we just started defending well and Townsend scored a few screamers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stifler Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 During the unbeaten run we still weren't great going forward iirc, Spurs aside, we just started defending well and Townsend scored a few screamers Aye, it's not like we put 5 past Spurs, 2 past Liverpool and had a couple of chances to win, and were unlucky not to win against Man City. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 http://i.imgur.com/GXpvPb4.png Unconvincing IMO. Swansea we were horrible and deserved a point City we derserved a point Liverpool as I've said I don't think I've seen as bad a 45 in the prem, at 2-0 they eased off, did they have as euro game mid week ? Palace we were horrible, won but were horrible against a shit palace. Villa Needed to win and at no point did we look like doing it, no desire, no passion, no urgency Spurs...end of season friendly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 During the unbeaten run we still weren't great going forward iirc, Spurs aside, we just started defending well and Townsend scored a few screamers Aye, it's not like we put 5 past Spurs, 2 past Liverpool and had a couple of chances to win, and were unlucky not to win against Man City. The Spurs game is completely irrelevant, Liverpool should've been beating us by about 5 at half time and completely collapsed which we did well to come back from in fairness, don't remember the City game Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stifler Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 During the unbeaten run we still weren't great going forward iirc, Spurs aside, we just started defending well and Townsend scored a few screamers Aye, it's not like we put 5 past Spurs, 2 past Liverpool and had a couple of chances to win, and were unlucky not to win against Man City. The Spurs game is completely irrelevant, Liverpool should've been beating us by about 5 at half time and completely collapsed which we did well to come back from in fairness, don't remember the City game Make excuses all you want. Spurs irellevient, Liverpool should have scored more and had a midweek game, blah blah blah. The fact is we beat a Spurs team who were more than capable of beating us, bear in mind neither of us had anything to play for. Liverpool didn't score more and we came back in to it. Also there are going to be plenty of teams this season who play midweek games who we come up against. Football is full of iffs and buts. You can't write off a good run under Rafa and proof that he was improving us because we have had a bad 1st week of the season and your nerves have got the better of you. May I remind you that we are only 1 week into the season. Rafa has shown that he is capable of turning our squad around before, and I doubt this bad start is going to be the thing that gets the better of him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Toon Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 If we'd won two games on the spin we'd have had the hold ya horses brigade out in force but just like any team that loses 1 or 2, the negatives are so much easier to pick out. I could list umpteen reasons why we have had this start and in no way is it a surprise to me. The trick now is to get a win as quick as we can although the longer we go without will put more pressure on Mitrovic to perform when he's off his extended grounding. It may also have him frothing at the mouth for the Brighton home game and a warning to the shower room attendant that they may need to get his bath ready before the rest of the side due to chances of an impending early one increasing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Just need to be more aggressive and loose rather than disciplined and tight. Keeping the shape is excellent if you're under pressure and soaking it up but when you're making the running against teams happy to sit then you need bodies in the final third, movement, pace and a bit of invention. Benitez needs to cut the shackles a bit and let our good players play with a bit of freedom. Lascelles and Mbemba shouldn't need 2 sitting in front of them protecting them, get after teams and cause them problems. We had 4 shots on target at home to Huddersfield. Its got to change, teams are happy to sit and wait and take advantage of our inevitable mistake. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnNUFC Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 http://i.imgur.com/GXpvPb4.png Unconvincing IMO. Swansea we were horrible and deserved a point City we derserved a point Liverpool as I've said I don't think I've seen as bad a 45 in the prem, at 2-0 they eased off, did they have as euro game mid week ? Palace we were horrible, won but were horrible against a s*** palace. Villa Needed to win and at no point did we look like doing it, no desire, no passion, no urgency Spurs...end of season friendly. http://i.imgur.com/rukSyli.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 Just need to be more aggressive and loose rather than disciplined and tight. Keeping the shape is excellent if you're under pressure and soaking it up but when you're making the running against teams happy to sit then you need bodies in the final third, movement, pace and a bit of invention. Benitez needs to cut the shackles a bit and let our good players play with a bit of freedom. Lascelles and Mbemba shouldn't need 2 sitting in front of them protecting them, get after teams and cause them problems. We had 4 shots on target at home to Huddersfield. Its got to change, teams are happy to sit and wait and take advantage of our inevitable mistake. Totally agree. Is Benitez a cut the shackles type of manager ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 We're putting nowhere near enough pressure on poor sides. We've not led in a game yet we've had only 6 corners in 2 games. Brighton have had 13, Norwich 13, Villa 13, Wednesday 16. These are all our competition and they've all failed to score in one of their games but they're putting far more pressure on the opposition whilst doing so. There doesn't seem to be any urgency at all when we're behind and we don't have the nous to pen teams back, haven't had for a long time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Toon Posted August 13, 2016 Share Posted August 13, 2016 One win will change everything. The other night the Villa fans were in meltdown, tonight they'll be back to thinking they're gonna walk the league. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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