Rafa Benítez (now unemployed)

[HaydnNUFC]

Is that the same Mark Curry that organised the fly over thing?

Doesn't he look like a Super Mutant from Fallout?

 

EDIT: Ah, no, that was Darren Curry who organised the fly over and looks like a Super Mutant. That Mark Curry is just a buffoon.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Is that the same Mark Curry that organised the fly over thing?

Doesn't he look like a Super Mutant from Fallout?

 

EDIT: Ah, no, that was Darren Curry who organised the fly over and looks like a Super Mutant. That Mark Curry is just a buffoon.

 

Ah yeah.

[Altamullan]

I don't think it's helpful to attack someone for proffering a different view, you might not agree with it but to personally insult them for asking whether we could be performing better is not right and more like RAWK or even RTG.

 

Benitez cannot be above healthy challenge

 

Let me know when there is a healthy challenge and not some bizarre ramblings.

 

It's like having doctors talking about medicine then bringing in a homeopathy expert for the sake of "balance".

Someone questioning whether the players have improved this season are not bizarre ramblings, Jesus if you want to close down anyone that asks a legitimate question, even if you don't agree with it is ridiculous

 

It's absolutely bizarre to suggest the Rafa should "improve" what are essentially championship players into mid-table premiership players.

‘64 is right and you’re sounding like you’re just ranting. Some people seem to struggle to do anything that approaches balanaced reasoning and debate. Especially when that involves criticism of someone they admire.

 

Personally I feel huge affection for Rafa. He has great values and I am proud to have home at our club. His results are pretty poor. Fact. It’s because all our players are ‘Championship’, ‘the worse squad in the PL’, and other statements = opinion. We’re not doing much better than last season in the Prem. Fact. ‘We had a much better squad then.’ = opinion. Which I personally don’t share.

 

Are we short of some quality players? Yes. Have we/Rafa known this? Yes. Have we, as a club, risked relegation again due to limited investment? Yes.

 

Just don’t get the thou shall not criticise the messiah vibe. If you imagine Rafa isn’t critical of himself: his decision  making and other choices, suspect (really hope) you’re wrong. Some people spend their whole time looking out the window rather than in the mirror. Blaming others (fans, science, players) for errors and taking responsibility for success that is despite rather than because of them. Rafa is not like that. Some of his (unrequired) defenders on here come over just like that.

[TRon]

I don't think it's helpful to attack someone for proffering a different view, you might not agree with it but to personally insult them for asking whether we could be performing better is not right and more like RAWK or even RTG.

 

Benitez cannot be above healthy challenge

 

Let me know when there is a healthy challenge and not some bizarre ramblings.

 

It's like having doctors talking about medicine then bringing in a homeopathy expert for the sake of "balance".

Someone questioning whether the players have improved this season are not bizarre ramblings, Jesus if you want to close down anyone that asks a legitimate question, even if you don't agree with it is ridiculous

 

It's absolutely bizarre to suggest the Rafa should "improve" what are essentially championship players into mid-table premiership players.

‘64 is right and you’re sounding like you’re just ranting. Some people seem to struggle to do anything that approaches balanaced reasoning and debate. Especially when that involves criticism of someone they admire.

 

Personally I feel huge affection for Rafa. He has great values and I am proud to have home at our club. His results are pretty poor. Fact. It’s because all our players are ‘Championship’, ‘the worse squad in the PL’, and other statements = opinion. We’re not doing much better than last season in the Prem. Fact. ‘We had a much better squad then.’ = opinion. Which I personally don’t share.

 

Are we short of some quality players? Yes. Have we/Rafa known this? Yes. Have we, as a club, risked relegation again due to limited investment? Yes.

 

Just don’t get the thou shall not criticise the messiah vibe. If you imagine Rafa isn’t critical of himself: his decision  making and other choices, suspect (really hope) you’re wrong. Some people spend their whole time looking out the window rather than in the mirror. Blaming others (fans, science, players) for errors and taking responsibility for success that is despite rather than because of them. Rafa is not like that. Some of his (unrequired) defenders on here come over just like that.

 

So where is your 'balanced reasoned debate'? All you've done there is have a go at posters opinions you don't agree with. No one is saying Rafa is above criticism, but make it specific and then there can be a debate about whether it's valid or not.

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

His results are poor = fact? I'm not convinced you can present this as fact. I mean you can look at points on the board and our results across a season and say that is poor. But is it not more complicated than that? The ability of our playing squad makes what at face value can be argued 'poor' results become considerably more reasonable.

 

Similarly, the argument about our playing squad being a lot better last time is not just as simple as saying well I don't agree. I mean if you were to look at the transfer value of that squad compared to this squad the difference in quality would be pronounced. Would any one of our players if sold (at a time of greatly increased fees) merit a transfer fee of £23 million?

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I’m of the opinion that some of Rafa’s tactics and methods have not helped us at all at home and that could be our downfall RE relegation. I also dislike our football, it’s poor in the main and I find some of his subs baffling. I for one would like us to just go for it a bit more at home. Swansea at home for example, had we played the same way we did in the first half we would have won comfortably instead of drawing. I’m all for how we play away from home by the way. We cannot keep using the players as not being good enough as an excuse or our lack of spending, they are all mitigating factors, but I’m sure even Rafa himself more than anyone will not be happy with our total points yield as things stand and we could be doing better. Silly mistakes and missed chances haven’t helped but when we are on top and get a goal like away to Palace we seem to revert into a shell of fear and try and see out the game defensively and it costs us a lot. Rafa the man though, he’s untouchable and easily the best thing about our club and he is far too good for us. Sadly what Ashley did by not backing him in the summer basically clipped our wings following the jubilation or winning the Championship. He effectively killed odour season to the point where it would be all about staying up. Sadly I don’t think we will.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

'Reverting into the shell' can't be Rafa's gameplan though, players do that because the pressure is immense and they're not very good.

[TRon]

I’m of the opinion that some of Rafa’s tactics and methods have not helped us at all at home and that could be our downfall RE relegation. I also dislike our football, it’s poor in the main and I find some of his subs baffling. I for one would like us to just go for it a bit more at home. Swansea at home for example, had we played the same way we did in the first half we would have won comfortably instead of drawing. I’m all for how we play away from home by the way. We cannot keep using the players as not being good enough as an excuse or our lack of spending, they are all mitigating factors, but I’m sure even Rafa himself more than anyone will not be happy with our total points yield as things stand and we could be doing better. Silly mistakes and missed chances haven’t helped but when we are on top and get a goal like away to Palace we seem to revert into a shell of fear and try and see out the game defensively and it costs us a lot. Rafa the man though, he’s untouchable and easily the best thing about our club and he is far too good for us. Sadly what Ashley did by not backing him in the summer basically clipped our wings following the jubilation or winning the Championship. He effectively killed odour season to the point where it would be all about staying up. Sadly I don’t think we will.

 

Haven't we played quite attacking football in our recent home games? We do have a go, usually this involves a few chances missed, and then the second half is usually more even. I might be wrong, but even before Rafa we were rarely dominating games for 90 mins. You need to be one of the top sides to be doing that.

[Altamullan]

Reasoned debate? Not that complicated really we’re, so he’s, not doing very well. LLWWWLDDWLLLLDLLLLWLDWDLDD = this season. Or P 36 W9 D11 L16 if you want to tag on the previous 10 PL games. So, yes. Results are poor. Maybe not ‘relatively’ speaking depending upon your view, but poor none the less. A couple of pages back I’ve compared the current squad to McLaren’s squad. I think I’d rather have what we have now, bar a couple of them (Thauvin was useless for us, Sissoko always flattered  to deceive/no end product, Cisse,  Coloccini  and some others well past their best). So we’ve been hung out to dry transfer wise, ok not much debate about that, but there were six home games this season I feel we could/should have done better in.

 

I remain personally disappointed that we haven’t turned a consistently coached and mainly selected Benetiz squad into something better than it is by now. Take a look at the squads of the other 11 ‘lesser’ PL teams. It really isn’t like a Champions League rollcall.

[STM]

Where did 'mid-table premiership players' come from?  They're your words.  I'm not arguing about the point made and I personally don't agree with it, I just think going down the line of personally abusing someone for asking a question is not on.  People just won't post anything and we will be RAWK which is not healthy

 

Personal abuse? I did a laughing smiley. Quite the snowflake aren't you?

 

For the record, I THINK Rafa has done an amazing job, because in my OPINION we have a championship squad and in my OPINION he has been totally screwed over by his bosses.

 

Of course you can question Rafa but I'm well within my rights to laugh at people who do so, for a variety of reasons.

[SEMTEX]

A couple of pages back I’ve compared the current squad to McLaren’s squad. I think I’d rather have what we have now

 

:lol:

 

[Altamullan]

A couple of pages back I’ve compared the current squad to McLaren’s squad. I think I’d rather have what we have now

 

:lol:

 

Take a look. We have 13 of the same players in the books. Who, on that season’s form, would you bring? It is mainly our midfield and defence which is different. Keepers are the same.

[SEMTEX]

On that season's form? That season in which they played under McClaren?

[STM]

Reasoned debate? Not that complicated really we’re, so he’s, not doing very well. LLWWWLDDWLLLLDLLLLWLDWDLDD = this season. Or P 36 W9 D11 L16 if you want to tag on the previous 10 PL games. So, yes. Results are poor. Maybe not ‘relatively’ speaking depending upon your view, but poor none the less. A couple of pages back I’ve compared the current squad to McLaren’s squad. I think I’d rather have what we have now, bar a couple of them (Thauvin was useless for us, Sissoko always flattered  to deceive/no end product, Cisse,  Coloccini  and some others well past their best). So we’ve been hung out to dry transfer wise, ok not much debate about that, but there were six home games this season I feel we could/should have done better in.

 

I remain personally disappointed that we haven’t turned a consistently coached and mainly selected Benetiz squad into something better than it is by now. Take a look at the squads of the other 11 ‘lesser’ PL teams. It really isn’t like a Champions League rollcall.

 

It's a question of expectation. If we were aiming for top half then, yes, results have been poor.

 

My aim was to stay in the league. Therefore results have been ok.

 

I dont think anyone could have done better, results wise. With the squad we have.

[Altamullan]

On that season's form? That season in which they played under McClaren?

Well what’s your valid comparison point then?  Those players(at some point in the past: Cisse, Coloccini, Tiote); or at some point in the future: Thauvin) are better quality than our current crop now?

[xLiaaamx]

I think the whole "away from home" thing with Wijnaldum lets him off lightly if anything. He was disgraceful in almost every game from February onwards, home and away, even under Rafa. He got dropped from that team ffs

He wasn't motivated, that's for sure, neither was Thauvin, but that doesn't mean they weren't quality players. We haven't been a side that attracts ambitious players for a while now, because we don't have any ambition as a club. If anything Rafa has fought tooth and nail to change that, but with Ashley it's obviously a losing battle.

 

No excuse for the run in. Even Sissoko bothered himself enough to try then.

[STM]

Sissoko, Thauvin, Wijnaldum, Cisse and Janmaat would all start for us. That's half a team. So yes, McClaren had a better squad and did a much worse job.

 

Benitez would have had us nice and safe, had he had a full season with those players.

[SEMTEX]

On that season's form? That season in which they played under McClaren?

Well what’s your valid comparison point then?  Those players(at some point in the past: Cisse, Coloccini, Tiote); or at some point in the future: Thauvin) are better quality than our current crop now?

 

Many of the players we have since lost would have played a lot better under Benitez than they did under Steve McClaren. Including those players you've mentioned, and the two players we sold for £65m that you didn't mention.

[Crumpy Gunt]

I’m of the opinion that some of Rafa’s tactics and methods have not helped us at all at home and that could be our downfall RE relegation. I also dislike our football, it’s poor in the main and I find some of his subs baffling. I for one would like us to just go for it a bit more at home. Swansea at home for example, had we played the same way we did in the first half we would have won comfortably instead of drawing. I’m all for how we play away from home by the way. We cannot keep using the players as not being good enough as an excuse or our lack of spending, they are all mitigating factors, but I’m sure even Rafa himself more than anyone will not be happy with our total points yield as things stand and we could be doing better. Silly mistakes and missed chances haven’t helped but when we are on top and get a goal like away to Palace we seem to revert into a shell of fear and try and see out the game defensively and it costs us a lot. Rafa the man though, he’s untouchable and easily the best thing about our club and he is far too good for us. Sadly what Ashley did by not backing him in the summer basically clipped our wings following the jubilation or winning the Championship. He effectively killed odour season to the point where it would be all about staying up. Sadly I don’t think we will.

First sentence is the nail being firmly smacked square on the head. The home record is what is taking us down. I do believe we'll go down although I can hope there are three worse basket cases than NUFC.  Some real shit has been on show - Swansea was fucking horrible.

[Jayson]

A couple of pages back I’ve compared the current squad to McLaren’s squad. I think I’d rather have what we have now

 

:lol:

 

Take a look. We have 13 of the same players in the books. Who, on that season’s form, would you bring? It is mainly our midfield and defence which is different. Keepers are the same.

 

Looking back I basically agree. Cisse was probably still more capable of the odd goal than our current strikers which has been the massive issue, plus during Lascelles injury i'd have said our defence was worse now. In the main i think we have a healthier side now currently though. Saying that you have to compare to other current Prem sides and their ability to spend atm, we're not competing vs previous Newcastle. We'd likely beat them.

 

There's basically 2 wins between 18th and 9th atm. So i think it's difficult to say we're underperforming, the likes of West Ham, Palace, Southampton should arguably be doing much better.

 

It just comes down to the fine lines that I dont think Benitez is control of. We lost 2 points at Burnley & 2 more at Palace to penalties. 4 points would have had us 12th & just 2 points away from being the best side outside the top 8.

[Altamullan]

It's a question of expectation. If we were aiming for top half then, yes, results have been poor.

 

My aim was to stay in the league. Therefore results have been ok.

 

I dont think anyone could have done better, results wise. With the squad we have.

I think you’re right, expectation comes into it. Also how close we have been to better results. Draws I feel  were winnable, poor teams who have taken points off us at home. At the start of the season I didn’t see that many PL teams to be frightened about, to some extent the three points between 19th and 12th offer some support to that view. 6 wins out of 26 is just not ok, full stop. Especially given we have probably the second hardest run-in.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

Shit, this debate is absolutely appalling.

 

From the list of things that have lead to this club being in a relegation battle, what number is Rafa being slightly too defensive or not using Mitrovic enough or whatever? Near enough bottom.

 

Then compare that to the list of reasons we have any chance at all of staying up, he's fucking top.

[TRon]

Reasoned debate? Not that complicated really we’re, so he’s, not doing very well. LLWWWLDDWLLLLDLLLLWLDWDLDD = this season. Or P 36 W9 D11 L16 if you want to tag on the previous 10 PL games. So, yes. Results are poor. Maybe not ‘relatively’ speaking depending upon your view, but poor none the less. A couple of pages back I’ve compared the current squad to McLaren’s squad. I think I’d rather have what we have now, bar a couple of them (Thauvin was useless for us, Sissoko always flattered  to deceive/no end product, Cisse,  Coloccini  and some others well past their best). So we’ve been hung out to dry transfer wise, ok not much debate about that, but there were six home games this season I feel we could/should have done better in.

 

I remain personally disappointed that we haven’t turned a consistently coached and mainly selected Benetiz squad into something better than it is by now. Take a look at the squads of the other 11 ‘lesser’ PL teams. It really isn’t like a Champions League rollcall.

 

Those other lesser PL teams are round about in the same situation as us. Some of them such as West Ham, Palace and Southampton have far more firepower than us as well. I'd say along with Brighton and Huddersfield we've got the worst squad as we don't have a striker of any repute. it's like going into a gunfight armed with a pea shooter. It makes no difference if you are at home if you don't have the weapons to put an opponent down.

[TheHoob]

s***, this debate is absolutely appalling.

[steve_69]

s***, this debate is absolutely appalling.

 

This x 100

 

I'm fucking staggered at the state of some of the points being made in this thread.