ElDiablo Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Decent. Spurs v Dortmund is a nice one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
54 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Schalke vs Man City Atletico Madrid vs Juventus Man Utd vs PSG Tottenham vs Borussia Dortmund Lyon vs Barcelona Roma vs Porto Ajax vs Real Madrid Liverpool vs Bayern Munich Some good draws there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Aye, great draw. Would love to see Atletico beat Juve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Comm was saying Messi had assisted or scored 46% of Barca’s goals in last 10 years We're going to miss him so much. Got to treasure every single season he has left for us. What's the last Newcastle player to score a hat trick, btw? Please don't take this as a "HAHAHA YOU SUCK!" question. Wijnaldum against Norwich? Maybe somebody else had one in the c'ship season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Comm was saying Messi had assisted or scored 46% of Barca’s goals in last 10 years We're going to miss him so much. Got to treasure every single season he has left for us. What's the last Newcastle player to score a hat trick, btw? Please don't take this as a "HAHAHA YOU SUCK!" question. Wijnaldum against Norwich? Maybe somebody else had one in the c'ship season. Gayle vs Birmingham IIRC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Idiot Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 But then Wijnaldum was the last to do it in the PL, right? What a weird player he was. Blew cold most of the time, but when he blew hot, it was volcanic stuff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 But then Wijnaldum was the last to do it in the PL, right? What a weird player he was. Blew cold most of the time, but when he blew hot, it was volcanic stuff. Yup. He's been quietly very impressive for Liverpool. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Yeah Wijnaldum was the last one. He was as invisible as I've ever seen a Newcastle player when we were away from home, but had a couple of purple patches which I think helped him escape a lot of stick along with Sissoko being an easier target because of his and his agent's nonsense in the press, but I never really took to Wijnaldum because of his away performances tbh, the way he hid was shameful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Been really impressed with Liverpool this season, they look the real deal, although the bar has been set so high by City, they can’t afford to drop even a few points it seems. Only thing that may slow them down is the pressure. Love how they play though and van Dyk has had a huge influence on them at the back, worth every penny. Shakiri looking a bargain as well. My LFC supporting mate tells me their front 3 haven’t clicked as they did last season, but individually are scoring and creating and because of their pressing game at least one of them will get a goal, that bodes well for them if so. I’ve not seen enough to judge, but defensively they look very strong and have a nice balance in midfield now with lots of technical ability, pace, energy, ball carrying skills and quick snappy passing. Robertson their left back always seems to play like a winger whenever I watch them, love his style. I hope they go all the way! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnNUFC Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Yeah Wijnaldum was the last one. He was as invisible as I've ever seen a Newcastle player when we were away from home, but had a couple of purple patches which I think helped him escape a lot of stick along with Sissoko being an easier target because of his and his agent's nonsense in the press, but I never really took to Wijnaldum because of his away performances tbh, the way he hid was shameful. He was good in the 0-0 at Old Trafford, but that was it and I agree with your point. Wasn't just away games, in turned into almost every game after February, even under Rafa. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Yeah Wijnaldum was the last one. He was as invisible as I've ever seen a Newcastle player when we were away from home, but had a couple of purple patches which I think helped him escape a lot of stick along with Sissoko being an easier target because of his and his agent's nonsense in the press, but I never really took to Wijnaldum because of his away performances tbh, the way he hid was shameful. He’s far more involved with play for them on and off the ball, his goal return for us was more than healthy, but for 90 minutes you always felt he was never involved enough. Remarkable really he scored so many for us in his one season, goals that masked how average and even poor he was in many games for us. He’s showing he’s a good player though right now. He’s very economical with his passing which suits him and Liverpool’s game of quick short give and go football moving forward, or keep ball possession. He’s no Shelvey at passing, but no Dummett. He’s also full of energy so can get from box to box or get back to add cover, but more importantly able to press high up when demanded for 90 minutes without running out of steam. He has quick feet and good ball control as well so he can carry the ball or receive it in tight spaces or when marked more tightly. Many a time he will get the ball in right areas with numbers around him and he will come away with it into space and away from trouble. We saw all that in him here, but in very small doses and nowhere near consistently enough and while that had a lot to with how we played and our tactics and of course how our season went on, I do think it was also about adapting to the pace of our game and physical demands being new to the league. I thought he was still trying to find his feet in that sense even last season for Liverpool. He’s a footballer no doubt though and a very good one which Sissoko never was, but whose game probably suited us more and how we played suited him just as much, even though he too would flatter to deceive and go missing just as much. He’s as important to how Liverpool play as much as anyone for them and seems a bit of an unsung hero, someone who doesn’t exactly stand out, but does so much on and off the ball which is critical for his team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Nah, I don't think he's good enough for Liverpool tbh. He's only recently started doing better and he was as invisible away from home for them as he was for us. He probably works as a rotation/bit-part player, but I think they'll upgrade on him and should. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chopey Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 I dont think this ref in the Derby v Forest game is of the highest standard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeyt Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 I dont think this ref in the Derby v Forest game is of the highest standard. It's Keith Stroud Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Nah, I don't think he's good enough for Liverpool tbh. He's only recently started doing better and he was as invisible away from home for them as he was for us. He probably works as a rotation/bit-part player, but I think they'll upgrade on him and should. I disagree, I think he is good enough and is just starting to become key player for them. They are that good though and have so many options if all he or a Kieta does is press, break up play and play simple passes all game, that’s more than enough. When a bit more is required, I think he can step up to the task and the 3 in the middle that started the game against Man Utd which he was central to I’d say is their best combination right now even in games of that magnitude. One player who I feel can add a whole lot more to Liverpool in an attacking sense as daft as that might read given how good they are, is AOC, but not if it comes at the expense of the kind of job and role Winjaldum gives them. If he can do the business in attack and do what Winjaldum does as well, then that’s what I’d call an upgrade that would justify leaving him out. For Klopp because he gets so much in attack from others, that’s not kind of essential right now and I’d guess if AOC is to become a regular, Klopp will ask him to do what Winjaldum does first and foremost in the knowledge he can do things he can’t if need be, but things others can all the same where he’s worth dropping a Gini for and sacrificing what he brings. If only Rafa had such dilemmas... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toon25 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 I dont think this ref in the Derby v Forest game is of the highest standard. Love that avatar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Nah, I don't think he's good enough for Liverpool tbh. He's only recently started doing better and he was as invisible away from home for them as he was for us. He probably works as a rotation/bit-part player, but I think they'll upgrade on him and should. I disagree, I think he is good enough and is just starting to become key player for them. They are that good though and have so many options if all he or a Kieta does is press, break up play and play simple passes all game, that’s more than enough. When a bit more is required, I think he can step up to the task and the 3 in the middle that started the game against Man Utd which he was central to I’d say is their best combination right now even in games of that magnitude. One player who I feel can add a whole lot more to Liverpool in an attacking sense as daft as that might read given how good they are, is AOC, but not if it comes at the expense of the kind of job and role Winjaldum gives them. If he can do the business in attack and do what Winjaldum does as well, then that’s what I’d call an upgrade that would justify leaving him out. For Klopp because he gets so much in attack from others, that’s not kind of essential right now and I’d guess if AOC is to become a regular, Klopp will ask him to do what Winjaldum does first and foremost in the knowledge he can do things he can’t if need be, but things others can all the same where he’s worth dropping a Gini for and sacrificing what he brings. If only Rafa had such dilemmas... You realise that AOC was the regular ahead of Wijnaldum before his injury? That he was already doing the work you mention Wijnaldum doing? They pretty much all do the pressing part, it's not something that Wijnaldum brings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 To think we played Anita and Colback together for half a season. Would have been interesting to see if he would have had more impact as one of the midfield two, with maybe Thauvin given more of a chance in the front four with Sissoko, Perez & Mitrovic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 To think we played Anita and Colback together for half a season. Would have been interesting to see if he would have had more impact as one of the midfield two, with maybe Thauvin given more of a chance in the front four with Sissoko, Perez & Mitrovic. He was played there and was anonymous iirc. A midfielder of his talent in our team has to bring more than what he brings to Liverpool Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Can’t remember seeing that very often. Trying to forget that season existed like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 11 goals and 5 assists in that team was still some going anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
triggs Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 11 goals and 5 assists in that team was still some going anyway. He was an utter disgrace Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmonkey Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Personally thought Wijnaldum was fairly good overall in the relegation season for the player that he is, and the criticisms of him going missing/not caring were really over the top and a case of angry fans looking to scapegoat players because the entire team was dross. Wijnaldum's playstyle, facial expressions, etc, made him a very easy target in this sense. It's always easy to label someone as a mercenary when they're not a visibly physical player. In terms of him going missing, it felt like some folk were just expecting him to be something he's not, failing to take into account his limitations as a footballer and the team he was in. He can't actively beat players (he can be slippery but it's not the same thing), he has neat technique but is not particularly skillful, not fast, very average passing, an average shot on him, etc etc. An all round average player with some alright technique, and that's it. He was never going to drag an average or poor team to decent results entirely on his own, nor was he going to start running around like a headless chicken getting knackered after 10 mins, or lunging into bad tackles giving away dangerous free kicks, just to appease some fans who view those things as passion when in truth they're things poor players tends to do to mask how crap they are. In those games where he did play well mainly by scoring, I always felt like it was a combination of the team somewhat attacking more at home (more men forward, more balls into the box, pushed higher up = more opportunities for Wijnaldum to ghost into the box) and also some opposition teams not bothering to track/mark him or having poor tactics or poor defenders. Combine the two and ice that cake with some decent technique and you get the goals he managed to get for us. The rest of the time we were either playing poor or playing away from home (sitting deep, hoofing, poor balls into the box = alot fewer opportunities for Wijnaldum to even get into the box, let alone have a chance at scoring), and I think in some games the tactics involved him playing deep, which is sort of what he does for Liverpool now. In a piss poor team unable to retain the ball of course an average to good footballer like Wijnaldum controlling a ball well, being a tad slippery and passing it simply is going to have little impact. And of course if the opposition teams were just competent at tracking his runs or marking him it meant he posed no goal scoring threat at all, home or away. All of this ties in with how he started the season in hot scoring form but then it all dried up when teams realised he's our only real goal scoring threat and started marking him properly. Maybe there were some games where he wasn't 100% up for it, but I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. Firstly, I can't really blame any players for feeling demotivated under a Mike Ashley regime, so a few dejected performances are tolerable (only a few though). Secondly, he's had plenty of very quiet games for Liverpool, which indicates he's a decent player who can only play well when circumstances permit (rather than playing well all the time, which is what your quality players do). I'd say he probably played better for us than he has for Liverpool, but the current performance levels appear to be higher simply because he's in a far better team. In fact take Liverpool's front 3 out, stick Ayoze, Mitrovic and Obertan in their side up front (i.e. shiite players who can't control a ball at times), and I imagine Wijnaldum as he is now would be getting the levels of stick he got for us because he'd be doing sod all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 His role at Liverpool is very different and he's doing it pretty well. He still lacks impact, ability to control a game. But for Liverpool it doesn't matter so much, he works well in the system. They could still do with a more dynamic player like AOC who was superb for them. Brought drive and creativity. That's what Gini lacks. But he's got good technique, mobile, can press well, pass fast when needed, quick, fairly strong etc. The ability to press and play fast football when needed is so key to Liverpool. We never play like that. He could play the Ki role but he never looked to take that on properly when he was at CM. In a 3 at Liverpool, again it's easier for him. I still don't particularly rate him. I prefer James Milner by far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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