Group D - Argentina, Iceland, Croatia, Nigeria - CRO & ARG advance

[Guest Howaythetoon]

The difference between Messi and Ronaldo when it comes to representing their country is that Ronaldo has the cult of personality to drag an ordinary team to greater heights or to win games singelhandidly even if his team-mates are underperforming or not as good as the opposition.

 

Maradona had that aura, that cult of personality. Zidane had it too and for England Beckham had it, but obviously to a much much lesser degree.

 

Messi looks like a lost boy for Argentina, not sure of his surroundings, he basically looks way out of his comfort zone. Ronaldo on the other hand seems to thrive on being the golden hope, the talisman and others seems to feed of his own aura of greatness and invincibility.

 

Neymar has the confidence and the talent, but lacks maturity, same with Pogba.

 

Messi obviously has confidence in his own ability and is a big game player with a big personality of his own, but it doesn’t and never will transcend his own self and I genuinley think being a superstar doesn’t sit easy with him nor does he have an in built capacity to lead people as people in the way Ronaldo can, even when being selfish.

[Mole_Toonfan]

Except Ronaldo has 3 goals in his previous 3 whole WCs, while Messi's Argentina went to the final last time. Before the Spain game, Ronaldo's performances at a WC has been meh at best.

 

I mean come on man, that argument is short sighted and forgetting everything that happened before this week. There's a lot of things you can say in favour of both players but this argument that Messi doesn't perform for Argentina and Ronaldo carries his team is just wrong.

[Kaizero]

Think what someone mentioned earlier rings true, Messi surely feel more Spanish than Argentinian anyway, surely? Even his grandparents are Spanish, iirc. Should have opted to play for Spain.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Messi doesn't really lead like that, he leads by example or more often than not he goes into pissed off mode and just does it all himself and wins games basically single-handedly, he's still their talisman and icon, it's just a different style. That's how they got here and pretty much how they got to the final in '14 along with Mascherano. I don't think there's really anything to read about the right or wrong way to go about things based on this tournament or the way that things have clicked for Ronaldo for example. There's much more wrong with that team than something as small as the style of Messi's leadership imo, for a start they can't even capitalise on the space afforded to others by Messi's presence, let alone actually get the ball to him.

[Guest firetotheworks]

Think what someone mentioned earlier rings true, Messi surely feel more Spanish than Argentinian anyway, surely? Even his grandparents are Spanish, iirc. Should have opted to play for Spain.

Nah, and he used to get annoyed with that suggestion when it was popular back in around 2010. Pretty sure his heritage is Argentinian and Italian as well.

[Kaizero]

Think what someone mentioned earlier rings true, Messi surely feel more Spanish than Argentinian anyway, surely? Even his grandparents are Spanish, iirc. Should have opted to play for Spain.

Nah, and he used to get annoyed with that suggestion when it was popular back in around 2010. Pretty sure his heritage is Argentinian and Italian as well.

 

Catelonian and Italian, according to Wiki. And I mean, (not saying it’s not true, just a possible alternative) of course he’d have to act annoyed by that suggestion since Arentina already disliked him - if he suddenly went «Yeah, maybe I should have played for Spain» that wouldn’t come off very well

[Guest firetotheworks]

Think what someone mentioned earlier rings true, Messi surely feel more Spanish than Argentinian anyway, surely? Even his grandparents are Spanish, iirc. Should have opted to play for Spain.

Nah, and he used to get annoyed with that suggestion when it was popular back in around 2010. Pretty sure his heritage is Argentinian and Italian as well.

 

Catelonian and Italian, according to Wiki. And I mean, (not saying it’s not true, just a possible alternative) of course he’d have to act annoyed by that suggestion since Arentina already disliked him - if he suddenly went «Yeah, maybe I should have played for Spain» that wouldn’t come off very well

 

And they're his great-grandparents, so he's about as Spanish/Italian as I am Norwegian.

 

[Mole_Toonfan]

Should have picked Italy tbh, if only because Messi playing with Pirlo before he retired would have been fun.

[mrmojorisin75]

Messi doesn't really lead like that, he leads by example or more often than not he goes into pissed off mode and just does it all himself and wins games basically single-handedly, he's still their talisman and icon, it's just a different style. That's how they got here and pretty much how they got to the final in '14 along with Mascherano. I don't think there's really anything to read about the right or wrong way to go about things based on this tournament or the way that things have clicked for Ronaldo for example. There's much more wrong with that team than something as small as the style of Messi's leadership imo, for a start they can't even capitalise on the space afforded to others by Messi's presence, let alone actually get the ball to him.

 

apart from not playing any midfield this is the absolute failure on sampaoli's part like, if you're going to insist on playing messi through the middle to dictate play then you absolutely have to have wide men or athletic fullbacks that can get up and down the flanks to stretch the other team

 

that or you play messi wide with another capable forward in the central role (dybala) and capitalise on the fact that wherever messi goes he's going to be marked by 2 or 3 players

 

everything should have been geared up for that but none of it was, some of the worst coaching i can remember at this level tbh

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Except Ronaldo has 3 goals in his previous 3 whole WCs, while Messi's Argentina went to the final last time. Before the Spain game, Ronaldo's performances at a WC has been meh at best.

 

I mean come on man, that argument is short sighted and forgetting everything that happened before this week. There's a lot of things you can say in favour of both players but this argument that Messi doesn't perform for Argentina and Ronaldo carries his team is just wrong.

 

I’m not saying Messi doesn’t perform for his country, he obviously does or did, but right now at this point in time it is Ronaldo who is the one player on this planet capable more than any other of leading his team towards glory and to perform as an individual even when others around him aren’t performing or can’t.

 

That’s down to his personality and mentality right now where he’s in some kind of zone that you rarely see at any level from an individual.

 

I watch him and Portugal and even if he’s having a meh game or even a meh tournament and they are not playing well look distinctly average, I believe he can change all of that through his own powers if you like than anyone else, even Messi. Be it for club or country.

 

Messi will always be capable of winning a game on his own and inspiring a win through a performance because he’s that good, but as he’s getting older his powers if you like seem to be waning especially for Argentina where as Ronaldo seems to be peaking, albeit now as a totally different player.

 

This isn't a who is best debate by the way, Messi is the best footballer of all-time in my opinion in terms of being better than anyone before him at kicking a ball around and doing things with it. Better than Pele, Maradona, the Brazilian Ronaldo, Shola, anyone.

 

But I fear his greatness won’t transcend that unless he leads his country to glory which trumps all in the pantheon that is the world game when it comes to opinion and analysis. Whether that should matter in reality I don’t think it should, but it will and maybe has to.

 

There are hundreds of players who have scored, created more and won more than Maradona for example and had his levels of skills, but he is regarded today as one of the best which he undoubtedly is, but even THE best which is debatable and hugely so IMO.

 

He’s considered that because his aura, cult of personality and mentality transcended his ability as a footballer to elevate him to greatness as a whole way beyond how many goals he scored or created and even trophies won for his club teams or even how long a career he had.

 

Messi is the best player on the planet as an individual in terms of ticking every box, there is no doubt about it, but in the Final 4 years ago and in this tournament he has looked a shadow of the player he is and it’s not a slight to ask why or even be critical of him because the best and greatest do the business when it matters and he will be judged on that rightly or wrongly.

 

Anyway, I sure do hope he starts performing because the World Cup needs him and that is what this tournament is all about, seeing the best players in the world prove themselves. If England can’t win it (aye reeet :lol) and an African team can’t which I’d really love to see, I wouldn’t be too disappointed at all if Messi was to lead his country to glory to end all debates and finally cap him as the best of the best.

 

Ronaldo, however, may have something to say about that and have the final word...

[KaKa]

Oh for goodness sake! Messi vs Ronaldo?!

 

The real question is how do they compare to the legend that is AHMED MUSA!!!

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Quite enjoyed what I saw of Nigeria Kaka, hope they go far. I think Ineacho and Mussa have to start together and while I quite like Moses, considering the good positions he gets into his shooting and end product is poor. I quite like Iwobi as well, but don’t think he should start either. Big game coming up against Argentina...

[sbnufc]

Oh for goodness sake! Messi vs Ronaldo?!

 

The real question is how do they compare to the legend that is AHMED MUSA!!!

Hey what a surprise you were miles better with Mikel in CM and not AM

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

AH-MED MU-SA

AH-MED MU-SA

AH-MED MU-SA AH-MED MU-SAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

My governor is one of the wildest players around. He can look like an antelope trying to play football in one match and then come back with performances like that. A great card to have in the deck, and he has proven to be a boss on the world stage. The Croatia match is behind us, Nigeria's World Cup has now started and Argentina is in our sights. We should be fair, the first half was poor, but the swagger came back after the first goal with some sweet, sweet football being played.

Oh for goodness sake! Messi vs Ronaldo?!

 

The real question is how do they compare to the legend that is AHMED MUSA!!!

Hey what a surprise you were miles better with Mikel in CM and not AM

The issue is that Mikel is a perfect #10 in Africa where the game is slow, played on hard, dry pitches and excessively physical. He can dictate the game in this environment. By the same token, small boys like Kelechi and Musa tend to get tossed around on the continent, so we have to adjust our game for the international stage. 3-5-2 suits this team better right now. Moses's end product is less of an issue at wingback and Mikel's lack of lungs less of an issue when he is further back.

Quite enjoyed what I saw of Nigeria Kaka, hope they go far. I think Ineacho and Mussa have to start together and while I quite like Moses, considering the good positions he gets into his shooting and end product is poor. I quite like Iwobi as well, but don’t think he should start either. Big game coming up against Argentina...

I swear before I die, Nigeria will beat Argentina at the World Cup. As of now, we four matches and four losses, but this will change on Tuesday!

[KaKa]

Quite enjoyed what I saw of Nigeria Kaka, hope they go far. I think Ineacho and Mussa have to start together and while I quite like Moses, considering the good positions he gets into his shooting and end product is poor. I quite like Iwobi as well, but don’t think he should start either. Big game coming up against Argentina...

 

Oh for goodness sake! Messi vs Ronaldo?!

 

The real question is how do they compare to the legend that is AHMED MUSA!!!

Hey what a surprise you were miles better with Mikel in CM and not AM

 

I have to say I was so happy with the manager today, with not just putting Iheanacho and Musa upfront together, giving us a very dynamic front line, but then going 3-5-2 and having Moses at right wing back, where he has played exclusively for the last three years at Chelsea and excelled.

 

This often meant Moses didn't have to be as creative running by people and could just receive the ball in more space and deliver crosses from there. And he did this very well on the first goal.

 

This formation also gave Obi Mikel so much more freedom in central midfield and lots of runners ahead of him to aim for, whether at wing back or upfront. He was also had two high energy midfielders beside him in Etebo and Ndidi to do all his running for him. The setup just suits us beautifully at the moment.

 

Very very happy. Honestly think we would have given Croatia hell with this lineup, but hey at least it was a learning experience for the manager and he did adjust very well.

 

The Argentina game is going to be something else man. At the end of the day with the likes of Messi and Aguero they will always be capable of doing extraordinary things, and so it's all up in the air. Ultimately though, I'm just really happy we at least showed up and have had one fantastic performance, and go into the last match with a great chance of qualifying, now confident in the way we will play and more certain of what we are doing.

[Mole_Toonfan]

They aren't capable of extraordinary things if they don't get the ball, you'll win and easily.

[KaKa]

AH-MED MU-SA

AH-MED MU-SA

AH-MED MU-SA AH-MED MU-SAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

My governor is one of the wildest players around. He can look like an antelope trying to play football in one match and then come back with performances like that. A great card to have in the deck, and he has proven to be a boss on the world stage. The Croatia match is behind us, Nigeria's World Cup has now started and Argentina is in our sights. We should be fair, the first half was poor, but the swagger came back after the first goal with some sweet, sweet football being played.

 

 

Musa is so up and down but still so dangerous. So worth persisting with because at any moment he can do something really fantastic. I love the guy and would always play him, because I think defenders are bamboozled by his play even due to how erratic he can be, and it causes them headaches.

 

That strike that rattled the cross bar man ... God I wish that had gone in. The guy was sensational.

 

We definitely started off nervously, and understandably so, but we kept fighting and once we scored first we re-discovered our joy of the game. So satisfying to see. Today was great. Proud of the guys.

[KaKa]

They aren't capable of extraordinary things if they don't get the ball, you'll win and easily.

 

Man, I am nervous. The thing is we are not always the most disciplined defensively, and with those two on the pitch, and the likes of Higuain and Dybala to bring on ... well, it's going to be a bumpy ride.

 

I am very hopeful though. A very strong possibility that a draw takes us through too, and so we don't have to go too gung-ho to try and win the game, so guess we'll see how it goes.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

I’d ideally love Messi to win a WC, but if that means Nigeria don’t advance, sorry Lionel. Again my first taste of Nigeria come on ‘94 and I remember buying my nephew who was 7 at the time Okocha’s skills DVD and he learnt every trick. What a player he was, massively underrated and he somewhat underachieved too, he was at Bolton man under Big Sam

 

If England can’t do it, I’d like to see an African team win it, preferably my first taste of African footy in Nigeria, that and I have a lot of friends from Nigeria who are footy daft so aye it would be canny like.

[Mole_Toonfan]

They aren't capable of extraordinary things if they don't get the ball, you'll win and easily.

 

Man, I am nervous. The thing is we are not always the most disciplined defensively, and with those two on the pitch, and the likes of Higuain and Dybala to bring on ... well, it's going to be a bumpy ride.

 

I am very hopeful though. A very strong possibility that a draw takes us through too, and so we don't have to go too gung-ho to try and win the game, so guess we'll see how it goes.

 

Yeah but the players behind them are incapable of not only finding them with passes or taking advantage of the space afforded to them because they are double and triple teamed.

 

Unless something drastically changes i don't see how Nigeria don't win.

[Infinitely Content]

I’d ideally love Messi to win a WC, but if that means Nigeria don’t advance, sorry Lionel. Again my first taste of Nigeria come on ‘94 and I remember buying my nephew who was 7 at the time Okocha’s skills DVD and he learnt every trick. What a player he was, massively underrated and he somewhat underachieved too, he was at Bolton man under Big Sam

 

If England can’t do it, I’d like to see an African team win it, preferably my first taste of African footy in Nigeria, that and I have a lot of friends from Nigeria who are footy daft so aye it would be canny like.

 

Love the African sides, would be great to see Senegal or Nigeria progress. The former looked quite decent in their opening match like. Nigeria with Mikel at DM looked much, much better too.

[sbnufc]

They aren't capable of extraordinary things if they don't get the ball, you'll win and easily.

 

Man, I am nervous. The thing is we are not always the most disciplined defensively, and with those two on the pitch, and the likes of Higuain and Dybala to bring on ... well, it's going to be a bumpy ride.

 

I am very hopeful though. A very strong possibility that a draw takes us through too, and so we don't have to go too gung-ho to try and win the game, so guess we'll see how it goes.

Deinitely. No way Iceland will beat Croatia 2/3-0

[Kaizero]

They aren't capable of extraordinary things if they don't get the ball, you'll win and easily.

 

Man, I am nervous. The thing is we are not always the most disciplined defensively, and with those two on the pitch, and the likes of Higuain and Dybala to bring on ... well, it's going to be a bumpy ride.

 

I am very hopeful though. A very strong possibility that a draw takes us through too, and so we don't have to go too gung-ho to try and win the game, so guess we'll see how it goes.

Deinitely. No way Iceland will beat Croatia 2/3-0

 

Croatia will rest players, Iceland will be firing on all cylinders. Wouldn't put it past them.

[triggs]

They aren't capable of extraordinary things if they don't get the ball, you'll win and easily.

 

Man, I am nervous. The thing is we are not always the most disciplined defensively, and with those two on the pitch, and the likes of Higuain and Dybala to bring on ... well, it's going to be a bumpy ride.

 

I am very hopeful though. A very strong possibility that a draw takes us through too, and so we don't have to go too gung-ho to try and win the game, so guess we'll see how it goes.

Deinitely. No way Iceland will beat Croatia 2/3-0

 

Croatia will rest players, Iceland will be firing on all cylinders. Wouldn't put it past them.

They're not very good though

[Kaizero]

They aren't capable of extraordinary things if they don't get the ball, you'll win and easily.

 

Man, I am nervous. The thing is we are not always the most disciplined defensively, and with those two on the pitch, and the likes of Higuain and Dybala to bring on ... well, it's going to be a bumpy ride.

 

I am very hopeful though. A very strong possibility that a draw takes us through too, and so we don't have to go too gung-ho to try and win the game, so guess we'll see how it goes.

Deinitely. No way Iceland will beat Croatia 2/3-0

 

Croatia will rest players, Iceland will be firing on all cylinders. Wouldn't put it past them.

They're not very good though

 

I mean, they're a scrappy and physical side and don't have much individual brilliance bar Gylfi. But they literally qualified ahead of Croatia in the qualifiers, so have no doubt they're able to beat a weakened Croatia side, especially as they beat a strong Croatia side in the qualifiers to qualify ahead of them.