Joelinton

[Sho Time]

Don't get the 'play him in his position' stuff. He's played behind the striker before with Carroll and was awful.

 

Bruce doesn't play the same kind of football as what was played at Hoffenheim when he was there - different players, different league. Sticking him in a position he's more familiar with helps nobody unless we're going to play to his strengths which clearly Hoffenheim did.

[STM]

What strengths are those? What can he do, that stands him above other players?

 

Hes big and strong but doesnt hold the ball up particularly well. Hes quickish but doesnt dribble past players or make good runs. His passing is bang average, short range stuff. His off the ball work rate is nothing to shout about. His shooting is dreadful.

 

If he did 1 thing well, I could sympathise and say he should be played in x position with x player but he hasnt done anything well.

[mrmojorisin75]

And for what it's worth he played under one of the best managers, and for a champion's league team, where he was a main fixture.

 

This has been bothering me a bit. Hoffenheim qualified for the CL for the first time in 17/18 when Joelinton was in Austria. He came back from loan and played the next season.

 

It's a little misleading to claim he played for a champions league team imo.

[KaKa]

And for what it's worth he played under one of the best managers, and for a champion's league team, where he was a main fixture.

 

This has been bothering me a bit. Hoffenheim qualified for the CL for the first time in 17/18 when Joelinton was in Austria. He came back from loan and played the next season.

 

It's a little misleading to claim he played for a champions league team imo.

 

That season he was good enough to play for (1) A manager better than ours (2) A team better than ours that played champions league games that he featured in.

 

There's no disputing that. Coming here was a step down for him, other than for the money thrown at him.

[STM]

And for what it's worth he played under one of the best managers, and for a champion's league team, where he was a main fixture.

 

This has been bothering me a bit. Hoffenheim qualified for the CL for the first time in 17/18 when Joelinton was in Austria. He came back from loan and played the next season.

 

It's a little misleading to claim he played for a champions league team imo.

 

That season he was good enough to play for (1) A manager better than ours (2) A team better than ours that played champions league games that he featured in.

 

There's no disputing that. Coming here was a step down for him, other than for the money thrown at him.

 

So now Joelinton is too good for us?

 

By that logic, shouldn't he be out shining our other players?

 

Hes terrible. I suspect he wasnt a particularly good player at Hoffenheim either but was part of a decent set up.

[KaKa]

 

Yes, it was the magic setup at Hoffenheim, of course.

 

Just like it was the magic setup at Haller's previous club too, and now he is being exposed at West Ham.

 

Funny how these players keep getting found out by PFMs isn't it. Gosh these PFMs are all so clever.

[Menace]

KaKa Haller had a 1 in 2 ratio for Frankfurt & Utrecht.. What are you even talking about honestly?

 

 

But nagelsmann rates him!

[STM]

 

Yes, it was the magic setup at Hoffenheim, of course.

 

Just like it was the magic setup at Haller's previous club too, and now he is being exposed at West Ham.

 

Funny how these players keep getting found out by PFMs isn't it. Gosh these PFMs are all so clever.

 

Haller is shite aswell. The Bundesliga isnt as good as the PL.

 

If these two are good players, why arent they scoring goals or playing well in this league? Is it the leagues fault?

[Hhtoon]

Needs loaning out to an easier league - for his benefit career wise, and ours to hopefully generate interest to recoup money.

 

Ideally we'd give him a run here but

a. We're not good enough to have a passenger and he likely isn't going to make the grade

b. Boo boys are out in force ala Thauvin. Even if he did start to perform better the £40m would just be thrown about

[KaKa]

KaKa Haller had a 1 in 2 ratio for Frankfurt & Utrecht.. What are you even talking about honestly?

 

 

But nagelsmann rates him!

 

So tell me why Haller, who is further along and better than Joelinton is not getting games at West Ham then?

 

The point, which you completely missed, is that Moyes is culpable because the team setup under Moyes is horrible, the football stinks and there was no support for him going forward when he was being used by Moyes initially.

 

Haller scored 5 before January, after which he only managed 2 under Moyes before being scrapped altogether.

 

Our setup last year was even worse than West Ham's, we had even less possession as the football was also worse, Joelinton had no support or runners around him, was being used as a target man (and still is) which he isn't, and yet people dismiss that altogether.

 

Whatever.

[KaKa]

 

Yes, it was the magic setup at Hoffenheim, of course.

 

Just like it was the magic setup at Haller's previous club too, and now he is being exposed at West Ham.

 

Funny how these players keep getting found out by PFMs isn't it. Gosh these PFMs are all so clever.

 

Haller is shite aswell. The Bundesliga isnt as good as the PL.

 

If these two are good players, why arent they scoring goals or playing well in this league? Is it the leagues fault?

 

and there it is. You're just one of those people that believe you throw a bunch of players on the pitch and things should just happen.

 

Same philosophy as Pardew, Bruce and Moyes. It's why they never achieve anything or last too long anywhere.

[STM]

KaKa Haller had a 1 in 2 ratio for Frankfurt & Utrecht.. What are you even talking about honestly?

 

 

But nagelsmann rates him!

 

So tell me why Haller, who is further along and better than Joelinton is not getting games at West Ham then?

 

The point, which you completely missed, is that Moyes is culpable because the team setup under Moyes is horrible, the football stinks and there was no support for him going forward when he was being used by Moyes initially.

 

Haller scored 5 before January, after which he only managed 2 under Moyes before being scrapped altogether.

 

Our setup last year was even worse than West Ham's, we had even less possession as the football was also worse, Joelinton had no support or runners around him, was being used as a target man (and still is) which he isn't, and yet people dismiss that altogether.

 

Whatever.

 

Moyes is a terrible manager, noone disputes that.

 

However, Antonio has 9 goals in 9 games up front for West Ham. Is Antonio a better striker than Haller?

 

I'd admire your resolution but at this stage you might as well be arguing that the sky is red.

[STM]

 

Yes, it was the magic setup at Hoffenheim, of course.

 

Just like it was the magic setup at Haller's previous club too, and now he is being exposed at West Ham.

 

Funny how these players keep getting found out by PFMs isn't it. Gosh these PFMs are all so clever.

 

Haller is shite aswell. The Bundesliga isnt as good as the PL.

 

If these two are good players, why arent they scoring goals or playing well in this league? Is it the leagues fault?

 

and there it is. You're just one of those people that believe you throw a bunch of players on the pitch and things should just happen.

 

No I'm not. But I do believe that if you put a "good" professional footballer on the pitch, they would at least be able to show something.

 

Let me change tac, where should Joelinton play for us and in what formation, style etc?

[KaKa]

Moyes is terrible. As is Bruce. Or to be more fair they are just very basic or simple managers. They can do well with a specific type of player.

 

I've always said these managers should just be given more rudimentary and direct players with power and pace. That is their bread and butter.

 

It's why ASM will always look good for us no matter what. It's why Antonio performs in Moyes' setup too.

 

Any kind of player that requires any additional thought or tactical setup to get the best out of should not be given to these types of managers. We've already seen what Lanzini and Felipe Anderson can produce in this league, but no, not good enough for Moyes.

 

I just don't want to hear about players being crap under these jokers who haven't got a clue what they're doing.

[STM]

Moyes is terrible. As is Bruce. Or to be more fair they are just very basic or simple managers. They can do well with a specific type of player.

 

I've always said these managers should just be given more rudimentary and direct players with power and pace. That is their bread and butter.

 

It's why ASM will always look good for us no matter what. It's why Antonio performs in Moyes' setup too.

 

Any kind of player that requires any additional thought or tactical setup to get the best out of should not be given to these types of managers. We've already seen what Lanzini and Felipe Anderson can produce in this league, but no, not good enough for Moyes.

 

I just don't want to hear about players being crap under these jokers who haven't got a clue what they're doing.

 

I agree with most of that. It's the last paragraph I take issue with.

 

No manager is going make Joelinton look good because...hes not very good. You cannot polish a turd.

 

I could understand if he showed glimpses, or played some neat football but I've actually watched him with my eyes. He refuses opportunities to shoot, when he does shoot he either misses or has a tame shot. He never takes the ball past a player or creates something or is that not his game? What is his game, I have yet to recieve an answer?

 

Whoever said he was comparable to Firmino wants a bullet to the skull.

[xLiaaamx]

ASM looks good because he's a fantastic footballer. He's not some dumb brute and Joelinton some complex tactical enigma.

[KaKa]

 

Yes, it was the magic setup at Hoffenheim, of course.

 

Just like it was the magic setup at Haller's previous club too, and now he is being exposed at West Ham.

 

Funny how these players keep getting found out by PFMs isn't it. Gosh these PFMs are all so clever.

 

Haller is shite aswell. The Bundesliga isnt as good as the PL.

 

If these two are good players, why arent they scoring goals or playing well in this league? Is it the leagues fault?

 

and there it is. You're just one of those people that believe you throw a bunch of players on the pitch and things should just happen.

 

No I'm not. But I do believe that if you put a "good" professional footballer on the pitch, they would at least be able to show something.

 

Let me change tac, where should Joelinton play for us and in what formation, style etc?

 

Ideally he has played with another striker that looks to get in behind. And/or wide players that make forward runs off him.

 

Joelinton's tendency is to drop into space and look for the ball into his feet and set players away, before then arriving late. The video below was posted previously as an example of this multiple times in one game at Hoffenheim.

 

He played the majority of last season in a 4-5-1 with no one around him, and with aerial balls being launched at him from 50 yards away. It was pathetic.

 

[Menace]

Haller has had injuries and quite bad ones at that whilst at West Ham, he has also shown he can at least find the net.

 

What the fuck has Joe shown?

 

There was a match where he was one on one with the keeper and he missed the ball and it just trickled in front of him - it was fucking tragic.

 

I get what you're saying about the manager, but this guy cannot even do the basics right..

[KaKa]

ASM looks good because he's a fantastic footballer. He's not some dumb brute and Joelinton some complex tactical enigma.

 

You're entitled to your opinion man

[KaKa]

Haller has had injuries and quite bad ones at that whilst at West Ham, he has also shown he can at least find the net.

 

What the fuck has Joe shown?

 

There was a match where he was one on one with the keeper and he missed the ball and it just trickled in front of him - it was fucking tragic.

 

I get what you're saying about the manager, but this guy cannot even do the basics right..

 

Haller is not struggling with Injuries. He has been benched. Stop it

[Happinesstan]

He's not enjoying his football any more than the fans. Understandably as he's had a torrid time. I can't ever see him rekindling any joy under Bruce.

[Unbelievable]

Moyes is terrible. As is Bruce. Or to be more fair they are just very basic or simple managers. They can do well with a specific type of player.

 

I've always said these managers should just be given more rudimentary and direct players with power and pace. That is their bread and butter.

 

It's why ASM will always look good for us no matter what. It's why Antonio performs in Moyes' setup too.

 

Any kind of player that requires any additional thought or tactical setup to get the best out of should not be given to these types of managers. We've already seen what Lanzini and Felipe Anderson can produce in this league, but no, not good enough for Moyes.

 

I just don't want to hear about players being crap under these jokers who haven't got a clue what they're doing.

 

I agree with most of that. It's the last paragraph I take issue with.

 

No manager is going make Joelinton look good because...hes not very good. You cannot polish a turd.

 

I could understand if he showed glimpses, or played some neat football but I've actually watched him with my eyes. He refuses opportunities to shoot, when he does shoot he either misses or has a tame shot. He never takes the ball past a player or creates something or is that not his game? What is his game, I have yet to recieve an answer?

 

Whoever said he was comparable to Firmino wants a bullet to the skull.

 

 

It’s quite the logical fallacy. Shit managers don’t often get the best out of good players. Bruce is a shit manager. Joelinton isn’t playing well, therefore he is a good player being mismanaged.

 

And if only it would end there. No, said player needs to be accomodated with the team apparently built around him, at the expense of better players who do manage to perform in this shit setup.

 

I’m all for replacing Bruce with a competent manager, and I would love to see Joelinton come good for us, but sadly at this stage both look as likely as Ashley leaving anytime soon, so here we are. Shit owner, shit manager, shit 40m forward.

 

 

[Menace]

Haller has had injuries and quite bad ones at that whilst at West Ham, he has also shown he can at least find the net.

 

What the fuck has Joe shown?

 

There was a match where he was one on one with the keeper and he missed the ball and it just trickled in front of him - it was fucking tragic.

 

I get what you're saying about the manager, but this guy cannot even do the basics right..

 

Haller is not struggling with Injuries. He has been benched. Stop it

 

West Ham United could be boosted by the return of record signing Sebastien Haller to the squad that faces Burnley tonight.

 

West Ham have been without the Frenchman in all four games since the restart due to an injury.

 

??

[STM]

Ok, so let's take your example. He should play behind a striker.

 

What I'd like from a player in that position:

 

Someone who can control the ball in tight areas.

Someone that makes clever runs for his teammates.

Someone that can feed wide players with intelligent balls.

Someone that can finish to a decent standard and chip in with 10 or more goals.

 

Sounds perfect for Joelinton... who possesses none of those qualities.

 

I presume when eventually gets shipped back to Germany or whoever will take him, he will be tearing places up in the number 10 role?

[KaKa]

He's not enjoying his football any more than the fans. Understandably as he's had a torrid time. I can't ever see him rekindling any joy under Bruce.

 

The season has started and he is now being used in the Carabao cup as the lone lump upfront, in teams with Barlaser and Longstaff in midfield and 30% possession. From the champions league with Nagelsmann to this. They just put the guy out of his misery and send him out somewhere.

 

Honestly, I don't even know how I got stuck sticking up for the guy so much. I think it just really irked me seeing how bad we played last season with this guy getting all the blame. It was ridiculous.