Allan Saint-Maximin (now playing for Fenerbahce, on loan from Al-Ahli)

[Guest reefatoon]

I don't even think you need to double up on him. Teams are now realising that if you give him a boot in the first couple of minutes, he is not the same player after. He hates the physical side of the game, but he needs to get over that and stop moaning and rolling around for ages. He needs to shrug it off and show the opposition he can take that side of the game and it doesn't let it affect him. If he sorts that out and doesn't let his head drop after getting fouled, he will be so much better for it. Needs to toughen up to be a better player.

[Geordie Ahmed]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

You can double up on ASM because he’s not going to pass.  He attempts the most take-ons in the league by a distance.  

 

Completed more passes than Fraser (27 to 23) and he completed more dribbles, 4 from an attempted 10 versus Fraser who didn't attempt a single one

 

ASM would genuinely get less stick if he played like Fraser, Obertan, Ryan Taylor etc, just run to the full back and then pass back

 

 

[Fantail Breeze]

13 hours ago, Pata said:

’Only stick 2-3 players on him and he loses the ball’ as a proof of how shite he is. This thread is gold. Fucking French huff too.

 

Nobody is saying that but it’s always good for a hyperbole reactionary post to nothing.

[WillingtonMag]

2 hours ago, Hanshithispantz said:

Both Fraser and ASM have contributed to us getting out of the drop zone like. Fraser arguably more so.

 

I'm still unsure on ASM going into next season, I really love watching him and hope it works out but there's a reason why 'overly' skillful players tend to be overshadowed eventually. There's only really Ronaldinho in recent years I can think of who actually benefited from it, and that was probably debateable in the end.

 

We've seen plenty of top managers simplify the game of players like ASM, or just flat out prefer 'grafters' in the side.

Aye Fraser has played a part and credit to him but he often goes completely missing and has little impact for me, should really be a squad player at best.

[Fantail Breeze]

6 minutes ago, WillingtonMag said:

Aye Fraser has played a part and credit to him but he often goes completely missing and has little impact for me, should really be a squad player at best.

 

Pretty much the whole team should be though, that’s the problem. We have no alternatives to our starting 11 and that allows good teams to stifle us.

 

Take ASM out of the game at the moment and we’re toothless. Problem is it’s relatively easy to do that because he’s limited. Same with Wilson when he’s fit.

 

Wood, Krafth, Lascelles, Darlow, Gayle, Clark, Dummett, Hayden, Lewis, Longstaff, Ritchie are all Championship players. Majority of them aren’t even good enough to be squad players.

 

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Fantail Breeze

[The College Dropout]

41 minutes ago, Geordie Ahmed said:

 

Completed more passes than Fraser (27 to 23) and he completed more dribbles, 4 from an attempted 10 versus Fraser who didn't attempt a single one

 

ASM would genuinely get less stick if he played like Fraser, Obertan, Ryan Taylor etc, just run to the full back and then pass back

 

 

I’ve not mentioned Fraser like.  I’d happily see Fraser sold next season while I want ASM in the first team. 
 

there’s not much to discuss with Fraser.  He’s definitively not good enough for us.  Back-up next season at best. Sign Raph and Lingard and Fraser can go. 
 

ASM has the potential to go to the very top.  

[Outremont]

2 hours ago, Geordie Ahmed said:

 

Completed more passes than Fraser (27 to 23) and he completed more dribbles, 4 from an attempted 10 versus Fraser who didn't attempt a single one

 

ASM would genuinely get less stick if he played like Fraser, Obertan, Ryan Taylor etc, just run to the full back and then pass back

 

 

Good god you just brought back some dark days with the Obertan (and RT) reference. 

[Geordie Ahmed]

3 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

I’ve not mentioned Fraser like.  I’d happily see Fraser sold next season while I want ASM in the first team. 
 

there’s not much to discuss with Fraser.  He’s definitively not good enough for us.  Back-up next season at best. Sign Raph and Lingard and Fraser can go. 
 

ASM has the potential to go to the very top.  

 

I know you didn't, I should have been clearer for the reasons I brought him up.

 

Fraser doesn't get double marked yet there is next to no impact from him.  Fraser doesn't get anywhere close to the grief that ASM does, it was similar to the times when HBA got more grief than Obertan/Ryan Taylor.

 

Players like ASM will get that because they are an easy target, they see a dribble attempt fail and that's an obvious (but short sighted) thing to have a go at him.

 

Get in a top striker and RW, then I think we'll see more consistency from ASM. 

[Pata]

4 hours ago, Fantail Breeze said:

 

Nobody is saying that but it’s always good for a hyperbole reactionary post to nothing.

20 hours ago, Cookie1892 said:

and some people wonder why none of the top half of the table were in to sign him

 

great against poor sides, useless against anyone with half a footballing brain

 

as someone else has mentioned, doesn't look up, stick 2-3 on him and he loses the ball and rolls on the floor, hobbles about for a bit, then goes into a typical french huff

 

he needs dropping and we need to play with a proper team player

 

[MrRaspberryJam]

Can't believe ASM isn't as effective when he has 2-3 players marking him mind.

[Armchair Pundit]

There's a whole queue of players that need to be replaced before we even look at moving Saint Maxi on, utterly bonkers.

[JonBez comesock]

48 minutes ago, Armchair Pundit said:

There's a whole queue of players that need to be replaced before we even look at moving Saint Maxi on, utterly bonkers.

Aye , 20+

[KaKa]

12 hours ago, reefatoon said:

I don't even think you need to double up on him. Teams are now realising that if you give him a boot in the first couple of minutes, he is not the same player after. He hates the physical side of the game, but he needs to get over that and stop moaning and rolling around for ages. He needs to shrug it off and show the opposition he can take that side of the game and it doesn't let it affect him. If he sorts that out and doesn't let his head drop after getting fouled, he will be so much better for it. Needs to toughen up to be a better player.

 

Was saying this to a friend during the game. His body language is terrible in these sorts of instances and the other team feeds off it, while it seems to discourage his team mates after a while because it leaves them short on numbers defensively when the ball is lost.

 

It's a shame really ... but I'm kind of getting tired of the guy tbh.

[Wolfcastle]

I fear this growing awareness of the pros and cons balance/risk with him is going to be a hinderance, can imagine him trying too hard in a me-me-me way to counter act it and its just going to build.

Due a good performance, one of these homes games surely.

 

 

[Happinesstan]

On 04/04/2022 at 21:25, Pata said:

There's a reason why teams can put 3 players on him. Ryan Fraser is behind most goalkeepers in dribbles per game and has 4 total this season. ASM is leading the league with 190 followed by Raphinha with 131. But on true PFM style, let's blame the player who tries to do something and praise the one who runs around a lot. Bunch of Pardew's.

In our run of 3 consecutive wins he played a total of 29 mins, we scored 6 goals. An average of 2 per game. In the remaining 27 games, [in which he has more or less played 90 mins, we have scored 27 goals, an average of... I don't need to tell you.

I'm not getting on the lads back but it would seem that his successful dribble rate doesn't do much for our effectiveness as an attacking unit.

Leeds have scored two more goals than us, also. But here's the interestong statistic, they've conceded 14 more than us. Proving [barely] that ASM is more effective for a manager like Bruce, than Howe.

[Pata]

21 minutes ago, Happinesstan said:

In our run of 3 consecutive wins he played a total of 29 mins, we scored 6 goals. An average of 2 per game. In the remaining 27 games, [in which he has more or less played 90 mins, we have scored 27 goals, an average of... I don't need to tell you.

I'm not getting on the lads back but it would seem that his successful dribble rate doesn't do much for our effectiveness as an attacking unit.

Leeds have scored two more goals than us, also. But here's the interestong statistic, they've conceded 14 more than us. Proving [barely] that ASM is more effective for a manager like Bruce, than Howe.

 

That's a three game sample size that includes a game where the opponent had a player sent off after 11 minutes. In the other two games our xG was 1.58 (BHA) and 0.81 (SOU).

 

I have no idea what those Leeds stats have to do with ASM, NUFC, Bruce or Howe.

[Happinesstan]

2 minutes ago, Pata said:

 

That's a three game sample size that includes a game where the opponent had a player sent off after 11 minutes. In the other two games our xG was 1.58 (BHA) and 0.81 (SOU).

 

I have no idea what those Leeds stats have to do with ASM, NUFC, Bruce or Howe.

The second most successful dribbler in the league [by some distance] plays for a team that has scored more goals than us. Dribbling is a useful tool in a complete toolbox. Maxi's dribbling keeps the ball away from the opposition, limiting their scoring opportunities. Unfortunately it also keeps the ball away from his teammates.

And yeah, I get that it is a small sample, but it's the only sample available.

[Pata]

I wasn't saying how important his dribbling is to our scoring, just showed how there's almost no threat from our other wing.

 

Funnily enough Leeds should've scored score almost 9 goals more than they have and should have conceded almost 10 less goals than they have according to xG.

[Happinesstan]

He's invaluable in a set-up like Bruce's and it wouldn't be that crazy to say he alone was responsible for every point gained under that set-up. It would be incorrect, obviously, but it wouldn't be crazy. 

 

 

[Happinesstan]

8 minutes ago, Pata said:

I wasn't saying how important his dribbling is to our scoring, just showed how there's almost no threat from our other wing.

 

Funnily enough Leeds should've scored score almost 9 goals more than they have and should have conceded almost 10 less goals than they have according to xG.

What's our xG say?

 

I get what you are saying, I'm just saying that we could maybe sacrifice some of those successful dribbles for a more collective effort, sometimes. I know Murphy and Fraser don't pull up any trees when they're on the pitch with ASM but in the period that we relied upon them we were probably at our best, collectively.

[Pata]

5 minutes ago, Happinesstan said:

He's invaluable in a set-up like Bruce's and it wouldn't be that crazy to say he alone was responsible for every point gained under that set-up. It would be incorrect, obviously, but it wouldn't be crazy. 

 

 

 

Yeah, absolutely. I just believe that Howe too has use for a player like ASM and hopefully he can improve his weaknesses,

[Pata]

3 minutes ago, Happinesstan said:

What's our xG say?

 

I get what you are saying, I'm just saying that we could maybe sacrifice some of those successful dribbles for a more collective effort, sometimes. I know Murphy and Fraser don't pull up any trees when they're on the pitch with ASM but in the period that we relied upon them we were probably at our best, collectively.

 

Should have scored 2.6 goals less and conceded 2 more.

 

https://understat.com/league/EPL This site has so much xG stuff for all the big leagues and it's free. Also has stats for individual players with ton of filters.

[Happinesstan]

6 minutes ago, Pata said:

 

Yeah, absolutely. I just believe that Howe too has use for a player like ASM and hopefully he can improve his weaknesses,

I hope so. I do think a lot is down to how much Maxi wants it. Trouble is, I think, he has so much confidence in his ability to beat his man, and rightly so, that he will most often make that decision. 

Actually, I think I'm mistaken. We know how much he wants it. He wants it. He doesn't revert to his strongest attribute out of laziness or lack of teamwork he does it because he wants to succeed, so much. Get quality around him and he'll be confident in his other options. Maybe.

 

We've seen how he plays when Wilson is in the team.

 

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Happinesstan

[Happinesstan]

I think if Son had been with us for over two years he wouldn't have bothered with that cross on Sunday.

[MrRaspberryJam]