Allan Saint-Maximin (now playing for Fenerbahce, on loan from Al-Ahli)

[madras]

Those stats mean sod all in reality. Not that he played better under o e or the other but to base it on those stats is silly.

[TRon]

7 hours ago, Bompeter said:

Dogbrain logic. So if you’re a wide forward and haven’t been the subject of a transfer bid from Spurs or Chelsea you’re not ‘quality’? Deary me. 

 

Not really sure what you are saying. Do you think Spurs or Chelsea want to buy ASM?

[Dr Jinx]

6 minutes ago, madras said:

Those stats mean sod all in reality. Not that he played better under o e or the other but to base it on those stats is silly.

Are you suggesting that judging a forward player on their goals or assists is silly?

 

It’s end product!

[madras]

58 minutes ago, Dr Jinx said:

Are you suggesting that judging a forward player on their goals or assists is silly?

 

It’s end product!

Yes it's silly. Do you rhinknits possible for a player to have a poor game and score, it may be a miss hit, it may be the only time he hit the ball cleanly in the entire game while on another day he can be brilliant but not score ?

[Dr Jinx]

7 minutes ago, madras said:

Yes it's silly. Do you rhinknits possible for a player to have a poor game and score, it may be a miss hit, it may be the only time he hit the ball cleanly in the entire game while on another day he can be brilliant but not score ?

We’re not just talking about goals through are we. Goals and more importantly, assists.

 

They are too low.

[madras]

11 minutes ago, Dr Jinx said:

We’re not just talking about goals through are we. Goals and more importantly, assists.

 

They are too low.

Do you never see games where the best forward player has neither scored nor made an assist ?

[Dr Jinx]

5 minutes ago, madras said:

Do you never see games where the best forward player has neither scored nor made an assist ?

Would Messi still have been the world’s best player if he scored 5 goals and provided 5 assists a season?

[Happinesstan]

 

2 hours ago, Dr Jinx said:

Well last season he scored 5 times and 5 assists, the season before 3 and 4.

 

So the better under Bruce thing is somewhat of a myth.

 

Whats consistent is that his end product vastly needs to improve, even for a team that struggled, those are poor numbers for someone with that talent. I don’t think I’m being overly critical with that.

 

There’s plenty of players who can beat a few and then give the ball away. Maxi just does it much much more stylishly so we tend to ignore it more than we should.

 

I think (hope) he can improve but he has to want to work on those other aspects of his game, if he doesn’t want to, nothing will change and things will fizzle out until we get a better replacement.

 

Time will tell, not too far away now either. He’s had a full pre season under Howe so should be fitter and we’ll see if his game has adapted.

 

 

He scored two of those five goals in Bruce's 8 game period. 3 in 25 under Howe [I'm giving him the Brentford game]. His last goal under Howe came against Watford on Jan 15th.

 

3 assists under Bruce.

 

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by Happinesstan

[Cattletrucked]

If it was up to me I’d keep him, see how he goes up until the new year…see if goals/assists and not losing the ball in dangerous areas improves. Keep giving him paracetamols during the match for when he goes down with headaches or sore wrists (I assume from beating the shit out of the pitch every time he hits the deck) the lad obviously has talent so let’s hope he just gets better. He can be unplayable on his day. 

[Pata]

Based on xG+xA his best season for us was 20/21, 0.39 per 90. 3 goals and 4 assists doesn't look that great but he only played 1578 minutes compared to 2825 minutes last season when he had 0.35 xG+xA per 90. His stats are pretty consistent over all three seasons and I too think they should be better despite being a fan of his. Really hope we can sign a good RW and see how he does then.

[Hanshithispantz]

There's not much difference between 3 goals a season and 5 goals a season in this context tbh, they both suggest a winger not really suited to scoring goals, or who is playing in a system that doesn't cater to it.

 

Given the fact he doesn't really contribute off the ball and gets dispossessed more times than 99% of the league, he really needs to be contributing to like ~15 goals a season. The kind of numbers Bowen and Barnes are hitting. 

 

I think he could do it with better players around him if he listens to the coaching staff.

 

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by Hanshithispantz

[Guest reefatoon]

7 hours ago, Dr Jinx said:

Are you suggesting that judging a forward player on their goals or assists is silly?

 

It’s end product!

Out of those 5 goals and 5 assists last season. How many of them were while Bruce was still in charge?

[cubaricho]

45 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said:

I think he could do it with better players around him if he listens to the coaching staff.

My hope is that we see a much improved Maxi this season. Especially with Bruno and Wilson hopefully both alongside him in the starting XI for long periods of time this season. 
 

If we could get a genuine threat of ASM’s ability on the other side of Wilson were laughing all the way to a very secured top half finish. 

[madras]

7 hours ago, Dr Jinx said:

Would Messi still have been the world’s best player if he scored 5 goals and provided 5 assists a season?

There's a bit of a difference between 30 odd goals a season and 4 or 5. 

 

You're saying a wide player who scores 5 goals a season has a better season than if he scores 3 or 4. I disagree and bringing a matter of a couple of assists is even sillier. An assist which could have been a miss kick and poor decision as opposed to not getting an assist if he takes on the entire team, plays a Zidane of a pass to a forward who misses from three inches out so no assist.

 

Callum Wilson had a better game V Arsenal in which he didn't score than in a good few games in which he scored. 

[Dr Jinx]

1 hour ago, madras said:

There's a bit of a difference between 30 odd goals a season and 4 or 5. 

 

You're saying a wide player who scores 5 goals a season has a better season than if he scores 3 or 4. I disagree and bringing a matter of a couple of assists is even sillier. An assist which could have been a miss kick and poor decision as opposed to not getting an assist if he takes on the entire team, plays a Zidane of a pass to a forward who misses from three inches out so no assist.

 

Callum Wilson had a better game V Arsenal in which he didn't score than in a good few games in which he scored. 

 

I didn't say he had a better season, i said it was a myth that he played better under Bruce. His end product is pretty much exactly the same.

 

And yes, there is a massive difference between Messi (even at the age he is now) and a 25 year old ASM. One has high end product, the other does not.

 

So saying that he's the best forward on the pitch in some games (which you did), doesn't really hold up to scrutiny.

 

He needs to do much much better, he has the ability but the question is does he feel like he needs to improve. If he thinks 5 assists a year is going to get him the Ballon d'Or he'll be left waiting.

[madras]

43 minutes ago, Dr Jinx said:

 

I didn't say he had a better season, i said it was a myth that he played better under Bruce. His end product is pretty much exactly the same.

 

And yes, there is a massive difference between Messi (even at the age he is now) and a 25 year old ASM. One has high end product, the other does not.

 

So saying that he's the best forward on the pitch in some games (which you did), doesn't really hold up to scrutiny.

 

He needs to do much much better, he has the ability but the question is does he feel like he needs to improve. If he thinks 5 assists a year is going to get him the Ballon d'Or he'll be left waiting.

You said the better season under Bruce thing was a myth because of those stats.

 

Re Messi is it purely the stats that dictate if he's had a better season than others he's had, could he play better in a season when he scores less ? Of course he could.

 

Him being g the best forward on the pitch without scoring g or assisting g does stand up to scrutiny from someone watching, but not by stats alone. 

 

Last paragraph 100%

 

Stats and data can be used as a guide but they don't tell the whole story. Just like you'll miss bits by watching a player alone.

 

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by madras

[Cronky]

What he needs to show is a commitment to self-improvement. The ballon d'or comment was a complete joke - he hasn't even played for his country yet. He needs to drop the self-delusion, and knuckle down to working on his game so he makes a better and more consistent contribution. 

[Dr Jinx]

12 minutes ago, madras said:

You said the better season under Bruce thing was a myth because of those stats.

 

Re Messi is it purely the stats that dictate if he's had a better season than others he's had, could he play better in a season when he scores less ? Of course he could.

 

Him being g the best forward on the pitch without scoring g or assisting g does stand up to scrutiny from someone watching, but not by stats alone. 

 

Last paragraph 100%

 

Stats and data can be used as a guide but they don't tell the whole story.

 

 

What absolute twoddle. If Messi was scoring about 5 goals and getting 5 assists for 2 seasons in a row, but he was regularly having games where he was repeatedly beating 4 and 5 players with the ball before getting dispossessed, every pundit, journalist and supporter would be saying the same thing.

 

'Totally out of form'

 

Now don't think i'm saying ASM should be getting Messi stats, i'm not. But he should be doing better than he is. He should be aiming for 10-15 assists a season.

[Shearergol]

1 minute ago, Dr Jinx said:

 

 

What absolute twoddle. If Messi was scoring about 5 goals and getting 5 assists for 2 seasons in a row, but he was regularly having games where he was repeatedly beating 4 and 5 players with the ball before getting dispossessed, every pundit, journalist and supporter would be saying the same thing.

 

'Totally out of form'

 

Now don't think i'm saying ASM should be getting Messi stats, i'm not. But he should be doing better than he is. He should be aiming for 10-15 assists a season.

 

With a better striker than Wood in the team, if he doesn't get close to that I would say he'll be sold next summer.

 

I refuse to judge him on last season.

[madras]

8 minutes ago, Dr Jinx said:

 

 

What absolute twoddle. If Messi was scoring about 5 goals and getting 5 assists for 2 seasons in a row, but he was regularly having games where he was repeatedly beating 4 and 5 players with the ball before getting dispossessed, every pundit, journalist and supporter would be saying the same thing.

 

'Totally out of form'

 

Now don't think i'm saying ASM should be getting Messi stats, i'm not. But he should be doing better than he is. He should be aiming for 10-15 assists a season.

Do you mean dispossessed or giving the ball to someone else who gets dispossessed so he does ecactlty the same thing but his stats look different because of others ?

 

I'd be saying they were talking shite and we both know they regularly do.

 

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by madras

[Dr Jinx]

4 minutes ago, madras said:

Do you mean dispossessed or giving the ball to someone else who gets dispossessed so he does ecactlty the same thing but his stats look different because of others ?

 

I'd be saying they were talking shite and we both know they regularly do.

 

 

 

 

Serious question, how often do you watch our games?

[madras]

1 hour ago, Dr Jinx said:

 

Serious question, how often do you watch our games?

Very often. 

 

Serious question, do you think any serious manager or coach or pundit makes a judgement on such a broad stat ? It's like judging a keeper on clean sheets when there are so many more variables. Don't get me wrong I'm not writing  off data as it is now so much more comprehensive and results driven rather than merely goals and assists which tell you very little really.

[gjohnson]

17 minutes ago, madras said:

Very often. 

 

Serious question, do you think any serious manager or coach or pundit makes a judgement on such a broad stat ? It's like judging a keeper on clean sheets when there are so many more variables. Don't get me wrong I'm not writing  off data as it is now so much more comprehensive and results driven rather than merely goals and assists which tell you very little really.

How's the bacon? 

 

PFMs live by this as it's an easy way out

[Guest HTT II]

It can’t be denied, ASM’s attacking stats in terms of goals and assist are very poor, but then so has our whole team’s stats been poor, especially combined. He needs to be targeting 10 goals at least next season and 8 or more assists. I’d like us to play higher up the pitch and for him to play more alongside Wilson in the final third as he will have less of the pitch to have to go on runs which as we know, cam fizzle out once he’s skipped past one or two from deep. 

[madras]

34 minutes ago, gjohnson said:

How's the bacon? 

 

PFMs live by this as it's an easy way out

I've no idea what any of that means.