Allan Saint-Maximin (now playing for Fenerbahce, on loan from Al-Ahli)

[WillingtonMag]

9 minutes ago, Pata said:

There's a reason why teams can put 3 players on him. Ryan Fraser is behind most goalkeepers in dribbles per game and has 4 total this season. ASM is leading the league with 190 followed by Raphinha with 131. But on true PFM style, let's blame the player who tries to do something and praise the one who runs around a lot. Bunch of Pardew's.

Exactly this if we had some one on the opposite side to him just half as good teams wouldn't be able to constantly stick 2 and 3 players a time on him.

[Hanshithispantz]

Both Fraser and ASM have contributed to us getting out of the drop zone like. Fraser arguably more so.

 

I'm still unsure on ASM going into next season, I really love watching him and hope it works out but there's a reason why 'overly' skillful players tend to be overshadowed eventually. There's only really Ronaldinho in recent years I can think of who actually benefited from it, and that was probably debateable in the end.

 

We've seen plenty of top managers simplify the game of players like ASM, or just flat out prefer 'grafters' in the side.

[relámpago blanco]

11 hours ago, Pata said:

There's a reason why teams can put 3 players on him. Ryan Fraser is behind most goalkeepers in dribbles per game and has 4 total this season. ASM is leading the league with 190 followed by Raphinha with 131. But on true PFM style, let's blame the player who tries to do something and praise the one who runs around a lot. Bunch of Pardew's.

This is it. If we had raphinha on the other side both of them would be unplayable as they couldn't put 2 or 3 on each. 

[Hanshithispantz]

Teams will only put 2-3 men on ASM when he's in possession, or we're set up to get it to him. They don't literally have 3 men man marking him.

 

And we'd still need to work the ball to Raphinha.

 

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Hanshithispantz

[The College Dropout]

You can double up on ASM because he’s not going to pass.  He attempts the most take-ons in the league by a distance.  

[HawK]

11 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

You can double up on ASM because he’s not going to pass.  He attempts the most take-ons in the league by a distance.  

 

I think the perceived lack of passing is due to a lack of movement off the ball on the rest of the team's part, and that he's normally the furthest player up the pitch apart from the invisible man (Wood).

 

When Guimaraes came on, there was a couple of passages of play almost straight away where they were passing between each other outside the box when ASM was on the right. Our other players are just so bad off the ball, reminds me of HBA having to do everything himself as well.

[thomas]

Yeah it's a night and day difference to how ASM can play when Wilson is the other threat up top and not Wood. Highlights both how much we need him back and how much we need to strengthen there* in the summer regardless.

 

 

* - I mean we need quality everywhere but good god almighty Wood was nothing against Spurs and even that was enough to keep Gayle out.

 

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by thomas

[Guest reefatoon]

I don't even think you need to double up on him. Teams are now realising that if you give him a boot in the first couple of minutes, he is not the same player after. He hates the physical side of the game, but he needs to get over that and stop moaning and rolling around for ages. He needs to shrug it off and show the opposition he can take that side of the game and it doesn't let it affect him. If he sorts that out and doesn't let his head drop after getting fouled, he will be so much better for it. Needs to toughen up to be a better player.

[Geordie Ahmed]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

You can double up on ASM because he’s not going to pass.  He attempts the most take-ons in the league by a distance.  

 

Completed more passes than Fraser (27 to 23) and he completed more dribbles, 4 from an attempted 10 versus Fraser who didn't attempt a single one

 

ASM would genuinely get less stick if he played like Fraser, Obertan, Ryan Taylor etc, just run to the full back and then pass back

 

 

[Fantail Breeze]

13 hours ago, Pata said:

’Only stick 2-3 players on him and he loses the ball’ as a proof of how shite he is. This thread is gold. Fucking French huff too.

 

Nobody is saying that but it’s always good for a hyperbole reactionary post to nothing.

[WillingtonMag]

2 hours ago, Hanshithispantz said:

Both Fraser and ASM have contributed to us getting out of the drop zone like. Fraser arguably more so.

 

I'm still unsure on ASM going into next season, I really love watching him and hope it works out but there's a reason why 'overly' skillful players tend to be overshadowed eventually. There's only really Ronaldinho in recent years I can think of who actually benefited from it, and that was probably debateable in the end.

 

We've seen plenty of top managers simplify the game of players like ASM, or just flat out prefer 'grafters' in the side.

Aye Fraser has played a part and credit to him but he often goes completely missing and has little impact for me, should really be a squad player at best.

[Fantail Breeze]

6 minutes ago, WillingtonMag said:

Aye Fraser has played a part and credit to him but he often goes completely missing and has little impact for me, should really be a squad player at best.

 

Pretty much the whole team should be though, that’s the problem. We have no alternatives to our starting 11 and that allows good teams to stifle us.

 

Take ASM out of the game at the moment and we’re toothless. Problem is it’s relatively easy to do that because he’s limited. Same with Wilson when he’s fit.

 

Wood, Krafth, Lascelles, Darlow, Gayle, Clark, Dummett, Hayden, Lewis, Longstaff, Ritchie are all Championship players. Majority of them aren’t even good enough to be squad players.

 

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Fantail Breeze

[The College Dropout]

41 minutes ago, Geordie Ahmed said:

 

Completed more passes than Fraser (27 to 23) and he completed more dribbles, 4 from an attempted 10 versus Fraser who didn't attempt a single one

 

ASM would genuinely get less stick if he played like Fraser, Obertan, Ryan Taylor etc, just run to the full back and then pass back

 

 

I’ve not mentioned Fraser like.  I’d happily see Fraser sold next season while I want ASM in the first team. 
 

there’s not much to discuss with Fraser.  He’s definitively not good enough for us.  Back-up next season at best. Sign Raph and Lingard and Fraser can go. 
 

ASM has the potential to go to the very top.  

[Outremont]

2 hours ago, Geordie Ahmed said:

 

Completed more passes than Fraser (27 to 23) and he completed more dribbles, 4 from an attempted 10 versus Fraser who didn't attempt a single one

 

ASM would genuinely get less stick if he played like Fraser, Obertan, Ryan Taylor etc, just run to the full back and then pass back

 

 

Good god you just brought back some dark days with the Obertan (and RT) reference. 

[Geordie Ahmed]

3 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

I’ve not mentioned Fraser like.  I’d happily see Fraser sold next season while I want ASM in the first team. 
 

there’s not much to discuss with Fraser.  He’s definitively not good enough for us.  Back-up next season at best. Sign Raph and Lingard and Fraser can go. 
 

ASM has the potential to go to the very top.  

 

I know you didn't, I should have been clearer for the reasons I brought him up.

 

Fraser doesn't get double marked yet there is next to no impact from him.  Fraser doesn't get anywhere close to the grief that ASM does, it was similar to the times when HBA got more grief than Obertan/Ryan Taylor.

 

Players like ASM will get that because they are an easy target, they see a dribble attempt fail and that's an obvious (but short sighted) thing to have a go at him.

 

Get in a top striker and RW, then I think we'll see more consistency from ASM. 

[Pata]

4 hours ago, Fantail Breeze said:

 

Nobody is saying that but it’s always good for a hyperbole reactionary post to nothing.

20 hours ago, Cookie1892 said:

and some people wonder why none of the top half of the table were in to sign him

 

great against poor sides, useless against anyone with half a footballing brain

 

as someone else has mentioned, doesn't look up, stick 2-3 on him and he loses the ball and rolls on the floor, hobbles about for a bit, then goes into a typical french huff

 

he needs dropping and we need to play with a proper team player

 

[MrRaspberryJam]

Can't believe ASM isn't as effective when he has 2-3 players marking him mind.

[Armchair Pundit]

There's a whole queue of players that need to be replaced before we even look at moving Saint Maxi on, utterly bonkers.

[JonBez comesock]

48 minutes ago, Armchair Pundit said:

There's a whole queue of players that need to be replaced before we even look at moving Saint Maxi on, utterly bonkers.

Aye , 20+

[KaKa]

12 hours ago, reefatoon said:

I don't even think you need to double up on him. Teams are now realising that if you give him a boot in the first couple of minutes, he is not the same player after. He hates the physical side of the game, but he needs to get over that and stop moaning and rolling around for ages. He needs to shrug it off and show the opposition he can take that side of the game and it doesn't let it affect him. If he sorts that out and doesn't let his head drop after getting fouled, he will be so much better for it. Needs to toughen up to be a better player.

 

Was saying this to a friend during the game. His body language is terrible in these sorts of instances and the other team feeds off it, while it seems to discourage his team mates after a while because it leaves them short on numbers defensively when the ball is lost.

 

It's a shame really ... but I'm kind of getting tired of the guy tbh.

[Wolfcastle]

I fear this growing awareness of the pros and cons balance/risk with him is going to be a hinderance, can imagine him trying too hard in a me-me-me way to counter act it and its just going to build.

Due a good performance, one of these homes games surely.

 

 

[Happinesstan]

On 04/04/2022 at 21:25, Pata said:

There's a reason why teams can put 3 players on him. Ryan Fraser is behind most goalkeepers in dribbles per game and has 4 total this season. ASM is leading the league with 190 followed by Raphinha with 131. But on true PFM style, let's blame the player who tries to do something and praise the one who runs around a lot. Bunch of Pardew's.

In our run of 3 consecutive wins he played a total of 29 mins, we scored 6 goals. An average of 2 per game. In the remaining 27 games, [in which he has more or less played 90 mins, we have scored 27 goals, an average of... I don't need to tell you.

I'm not getting on the lads back but it would seem that his successful dribble rate doesn't do much for our effectiveness as an attacking unit.

Leeds have scored two more goals than us, also. But here's the interestong statistic, they've conceded 14 more than us. Proving [barely] that ASM is more effective for a manager like Bruce, than Howe.

[Pata]

21 minutes ago, Happinesstan said:

In our run of 3 consecutive wins he played a total of 29 mins, we scored 6 goals. An average of 2 per game. In the remaining 27 games, [in which he has more or less played 90 mins, we have scored 27 goals, an average of... I don't need to tell you.

I'm not getting on the lads back but it would seem that his successful dribble rate doesn't do much for our effectiveness as an attacking unit.

Leeds have scored two more goals than us, also. But here's the interestong statistic, they've conceded 14 more than us. Proving [barely] that ASM is more effective for a manager like Bruce, than Howe.

 

That's a three game sample size that includes a game where the opponent had a player sent off after 11 minutes. In the other two games our xG was 1.58 (BHA) and 0.81 (SOU).

 

I have no idea what those Leeds stats have to do with ASM, NUFC, Bruce or Howe.

[Happinesstan]

2 minutes ago, Pata said:

 

That's a three game sample size that includes a game where the opponent had a player sent off after 11 minutes. In the other two games our xG was 1.58 (BHA) and 0.81 (SOU).

 

I have no idea what those Leeds stats have to do with ASM, NUFC, Bruce or Howe.

The second most successful dribbler in the league [by some distance] plays for a team that has scored more goals than us. Dribbling is a useful tool in a complete toolbox. Maxi's dribbling keeps the ball away from the opposition, limiting their scoring opportunities. Unfortunately it also keeps the ball away from his teammates.

And yeah, I get that it is a small sample, but it's the only sample available.

[Pata]

I wasn't saying how important his dribbling is to our scoring, just showed how there's almost no threat from our other wing.

 

Funnily enough Leeds should've scored score almost 9 goals more than they have and should have conceded almost 10 less goals than they have according to xG.