Joe Willock

[TRon]

2 hours ago, Gazzaschicken said:

It's him and joelinton combined that hits the spot. It just works. With abit of Bruno mixed in

 

I think even Longstaff benefits from a certain mix of midfielders. I guess everyone just knows their roles and they compliment each other. Classic example of the sum being greater than the parts.

[KaKa]

11 minutes ago, Ikon said:

Great to have him back looking more fit and gaining confidence game by game. 
 

I’ve talked a lot about our CM lacking any sort of playing depth with the distance between midfield and Isak being too vast making him too isolated at times. Same goes for our other midfielders. Having that bit of playing depth for the likes of Bruno, Tonali  and SL helps a lot by having another option closer more centrally which makes us more progressive and unpredictable. 
 

I think Willock is especially great in this more attacking role when there’s space and lots of transitions. Having said that, I don’t think he offers as much against deeper defending compact teams. Not a priority, but one day I’d like to see us getting another more attack minded CM that offers something slightly different from midfield. Someone in the mould of Sudakov for example. Think this would give our midfield even more versatility and balance and options. 
 

Let’s hope JW can stay fit because he really makes us more dynamic just by being more attacking naturally, therefore giving us more playing depth. Never mind what he offers in transitions. 

 

Yeah, he closes that gap the best, and is the most natural attacking midfielder we have from that 8 position.

 

Regarding a more creative CM to open up teams I think we would see more of that from Bruno if he's played higher up.

 

Hopefully we get a chance to see if that's the case with Tonali playing deeper.

[Smal]

his touch map pretty much has him playing as a lopsided 10 with Bruno and Longstaff as a pivot

 

 

Think this shape works much better than the flat 4-5-1. Isak never felt isolated yesterday until Willock went off really. 

[The College Dropout]

5 minutes ago, Smal said:

his touch map pretty much has him playing as a lopsided 10 with Bruno and Longstaff as a pivot

 

 

Think this shape works much better than the flat 4-5-1. Isak never felt isolated yesterday until Willock went off really. 

I like this 424 attack. Only issue is the front 4 don’t combine a lot. 
 

Our play is heavily Bruno dependent. It all goes through him. I wonder how we would look with Tonali in his position and he in Longstaff. IMO he might have to sit more alongside Tonali. Team is built to hit Bruno all the time. 
 

Willock off the ball and high does so much good for the press and allows Isak to amble around more and save his delicate legs. 
 

Compounds my thought that Martinelli vs Livra was a key battle that Arsenal lost. Arteta said ‘get em Gab!’ And he absolutely did not.  

[KaKa]

19 minutes ago, Smal said:

his touch map pretty much has him playing as a lopsided 10 with Bruno and Longstaff as a pivot

 

 

Think this shape works much better than the flat 4-5-1. Isak never felt isolated yesterday until Willock went off really. 

 

That right side looking so healthy.

[Smal]

6 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Our play is heavily Bruno dependent. It all goes through him. I wonder how we would look with Tonali in his position and he in Longstaff. IMO he might have to sit more alongside Tonali. Team is built to hit Bruno all the time. 

 

I like this idea. I think we have to rotate the team constantly as well. We have the options to do so when players are fit with the likes of Barnes, Tonali, Almiron/Murphy who can all come in and change us. It's key to making us harder to prepare against - we were looking quite stale and predictable before the last couple of games. 

 

 

Edited November 3, 2024 by Smal

[Colos Short and Curlies]

Both keepers wearing 22? Must be a very rare occurrence 

[Stottie]

Poor Longstaff doesn't get an arrow for passing it to Gordon? 

[toon25]

Really pleased he's finally finding form again after all the injuries

[54]

 

[PopeandGlory]

On 03/11/2024 at 11:28, Smal said:

his touch map pretty much has him playing as a lopsided 10 with Bruno and Longstaff as a pivot

 

 

Think this shape works much better than the flat 4-5-1. Isak never felt isolated yesterday until Willock went off really. 

 

As I’m a mere mortal and not an uber statshagger, why are these stats only from 1-68 minutes for us and 1-64 for Arsenal?

 

Feel like just ignoring a quarter of the match is a bit odd.

[Elma]

9 minutes ago, PopeandGlory said:

 

As I’m a mere mortal and not an uber statshagger, why are these stats only from 1-68 minutes for us and 1-64 for Arsenal?

 

Feel like just ignoring a quarter of the match is a bit odd.

My guess would be until first sub i.e. starting eleven. Their first sub was on 61 according to BBC and ours 65, so there is a four minute offset there albeit not matching up with the 64/68 in the graphic. 

[Dr.Spaceman]

Got to make it fit your narrative 

[Kanj]

On 03/11/2024 at 11:14, toon25 said:

Really pleased he's finally finding form again after all the injuries

just really like him when he’s flying like that, such a fun player to watch, incredibly likeable too. 

[timeEd32]

44 minutes ago, PopeandGlory said:

 

As I’m a mere mortal and not an uber statshagger, why are these stats only from 1-68 minutes for us and 1-64 for Arsenal?

 

Feel like just ignoring a quarter of the match is a bit odd.

You can look at these including subs too but it can start to get messy depending on how many there are and the timing. 

[timeEd32]

I've shared some stats in the last month or so about how we've declined over the last two seasons in things like shot/goal creating actions, take ons, progressive carries, etc. Looking at per 90 stats, Willock is:

• First in key passes (more than 1 per 90 more than anyone but Gordon)
• First in shot creating actions (more than 1 per 90 more than anyone)
• First in goal creating actions
• First in blocks and second in blocked passes (him and Longstaff way ahead of everyone)
• Third in successful take-ons (behind Bruno and Gordon)
• First in progressive carries (carrying the ball more than 10 yards towards goal)
  • Third in carries in the final third and second in carries into the penalty area
• Second in fouls committed (I don't think this is a bad thing)

The stats match the eyes - he brings another dimension to our play.

[80]

Great stats. He's been a massive miss. We should be working to make ourselves less reliant upon him, though, either through tactics or personnel.

[Kanj]

2 minutes ago, 80 said:

Great stats. He's been a massive miss. We should be working to make ourselves less reliant upon him, though, either through tactics or personnel.

 

I understand what you're trying to say, but it's not really a reliance though right? He's just a top player who takes us to another dimension. Just insane to think how we'd have done last year if he was even fit for 1/2 of it. 

[The College Dropout]

11 minutes ago, 80 said:

Great stats. He's been a massive miss. We should be working to make ourselves less reliant upon him, though, either through tactics or personnel.

We didn’t really sign personnel to do that. 
 

Take Tonali. I don’t think he offers a different way of play. It’s still hard running. 
 

The RW we sign could be a game changer.  If it’s an Mbeumo type - it’s more of the same but better style wise. 
 

think what we’ve learnt is the 22/23 relationships on the field was truly special and not something that is easily coached or replicated with different (and more talented) personnel. 
 

We do need to find new recipes.  As good as Tino, Hall and Gordon have been at times, they don’t have the relationships others in the team do. 
 

As great as Hall can be on the ball. He doesn’t have the Schar to Joelinton move, Schar to ISAK’s feet move. That Joe combination play.  Trippier, Almiron, Longstaff triangle and movement. 
 

 

I’ve heard Neville and Cole talk about that Man U side they were both in.  Different era obviously- they always said the relationships came naturally.  Cole and Yorke didn’t talk on the pitch they just knew how to play instinctively.  I think modern coaching is more detailed than that but humans will always human.  

 

 

Edited November 5, 2024 by The College Dropout

[80]

7 minutes ago, Kanji said:

 

I understand what you're trying to say, but it's not really a reliance though right? He's just a top player who takes us to another dimension. Just insane to think how we'd have done last year if he was even fit for 1/2 of it. 

Well, my prediction is if he breaks down again this week, we'll be back to pretty much how we were - unless we try and take some lessons from it, like moving Bruno higher up the pitch, keeping Joelinton wide etc, which might mitigate it. But we still wouldn't have that energy and ball progression in the centre of the park, someone who naturally becomes a second central threat - he was our furthest forward player at the moment Gordon crossed on Saturday.

 

There's a good chance we'll end up as an offensive horseshoe again, spread around the perimeter of the opposing 18 yard box. So in that sense I think we're pretty reliant on having someone of his type - I'd say the closest we have to it in our squad is Gordon, who has played CM before, but isn't focused on it. Either that or strengthening another area so we don't need quite so much from the centre i.e. RW.

[80]

33 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

think what we’ve learnt is the 22/23 relationships on the field was truly special and not something that is easily coached or replicated with different (and more talented) personnel. 

 

We do need to find new recipes.  As good as Tino, Hall and Gordon have been at times, they don’t have the relationships others in the team do. 

I think there's a lot in everything you said in your post. 

 

On a related note, I think having both Willock and Gordon fit creates an interesting situation. Not necessarily a bad one, but interesting as they've been in the same squad for nearly two years, but they've barely played together really.

 

Gordon came and made LW his own on merit while there happened to be zero competition, but I think both him and Willock require Joelinton alongside them to make their games work, so having them both playing in their natural positions isn't really an option. Obviously, Gordon on RW keeps things rosy for the time being.

 

Maybe that makes the case for signing a RW for the long term rather than immediate impact.

[jonny1403]

2 hours ago, timeEd32 said:

I've shared some stats in the last month or so about how we've declined over the last two seasons in things like shot/goal creating actions, take ons, progressive carries, etc. Looking at per 90 stats, Willock is:

• First in key passes (more than 1 per 90 more than anyone but Gordon)
• First in shot creating actions (more than 1 per 90 more than anyone)
• First in goal creating actions
• First in blocks and second in blocked passes (him and Longstaff way ahead of everyone)
• Third in successful take-ons (behind Bruno and Gordon)
• First in progressive carries (carrying the ball more than 10 yards towards goal)
  • Third in carries in the final third and second in carries into the penalty area
• Second in fouls committed (I don't think this is a bad thing)

The stats match the eyes - he brings another dimension to our play.

 

I'm not sure these stats are as strong as they first look given Willock has started four games all season...

[timeEd32]

52 minutes ago, jonny1403 said:

 

I'm not sure these stats are as strong as they first look given Willock has started four games all season...

 

It's a small sample, but for what these are I don't think it really matters. He may not end the season first in SCA/GCA or key passes, but he's going to be up there. I think they are indicative of what he brings to the team.

[The College Dropout]

1 hour ago, 80 said:

I think there's a lot in everything you said in your post. 

 

On a related note, I think having both Willock and Gordon fit creates an interesting situation. Not necessarily a bad one, but interesting as they've been in the same squad for nearly two years, but they've barely played together really.

 

Gordon came and made LW his own on merit while there happened to be zero competition, but I think both him and Willock require Joelinton alongside them to make their games work, so having them both playing in their natural positions isn't really an option. Obviously, Gordon on RW keeps things rosy for the time being.

 

Maybe that makes the case for signing a RW for the long term rather than immediate impact.

As good as Gordon has been, he doesn’t have great relationships with other players. I think Burn suffered without both Joe’s.  

 

That’s partly why people are more keen to move Gordon around because wherever he plays - he’s bringing himself.  Where Joe’s are best together. Bruno plays best alongside Longstaff etc. 

[BermyToon]

Wasn't he our best player in the cup tie against Forest earlier in the season? Needs to start this weekend at Forest again.