Eddie Howe - Granted Freedom of Newcastle

[Doctor Zaius]

1 hour ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

So you do demand a team that wins?

 

 

 

 

I mean for the most part yes.

 

That's what we all want. Newcastle United to win games of football. That's the top and bottom of it. It's absolute nonsense to suggest otherwise imo. 

 

I always thought that banner was sanctimonious shite too. Nobody gives a flying fuck how Mike Ashley, PIF or any other cunt is running the club if we're consistently winning games. They certainly do if we aren't. 

 

[JEToon]

1 minute ago, Doctor Zaius said:

 

I mean for the most part yes.

 

That's what we all want. Newcastle United to win games of football. That's the top and bottom of it. It's absolute nonsense to suggest otherwise imo. 

 

I always thought that banner was sanctimonious shite too. Nobody gives a flying fuck how Mike Ashley, PIF or any other cunt is running the club if we're consistently winning games. They certainly do if we aren't. 

 

 

That's not even close to being true. 

[Kid Icarus]

1 minute ago, Doctor Zaius said:

 

I mean for the most part yes.

 

That's what we all want. Newcastle United to win games of football. That's the top and bottom of it. It's absolute nonsense to suggest otherwise imo. 

 

I always thought that banner was sanctimonious shite too. Nobody gives a flying fuck how Mike Ashley, PIF or any other cunt is running the club if we're consistently winning games. They certainly do if we aren't. 

 

 

I mean speak for yourself and your own take on it like, but wanting and demanding aren't the same are they. We're talking about whether we demand a team that wins, not whether we want one. 

 

We all want one, not everyone demands one. 

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

14 minutes ago, Checko said:

I am a bit worried that we haven't had a period of playing consistently well for a year now. We had a good run of results near the end of last season but I don't think we were very convincing in the performances. There was some mitigation with injuries etc, but that and the way we still exclusively use the 433 set up that we've never been able to play good posession football with are causes for concern.

 

We are wedded to a system that was at it's most effective when we have less of the ball. We have tried to have more of the ball this year but do less with it (think we are having fewer touches in opposistion boxes than last year but with more possession). Our formation is at it's most potent when we have less of the ball. Teams have realised this and are quite happy for themselves to have less of the ball. 

I think the answer to this is to have Bruno higher up the pitch (as against liverpool). He can supply the ball to Isak quickly who likes to receive the ball a few yards in front of the centre backs. This can then open up space for wide players to cut into. I actually think Longstaff Tonali and Bruno would be fine as a 3. 

[Doctor Zaius]

I think every football fan of every club demands relative progress on the field. If that demand isn't met, then they call for whatever is hindering that progress to be rectified - whether that's the manager, ownership or players. At the heart of it all, it's a demand for on field progress, which basically equates to winning games. Scrape it all down and that's ultimately the top and bottom of it as far as I can see. 

 

 

[80]

2 hours ago, Slim said:

I'm not sure what your point is? My guess is you mean the opposite, but the club examining whether the manager is underperforming and looking to see what alternative candidates could offer would fit that banner to a tee.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2024 by 80

[Doctor Zaius]

17 minutes ago, JEToon said:

 

That's not even close to being true. 

 

Meh. We wanted rid of Ashley because he held the club back - which led to poor results on the field. We wanted PIF in because there's we'd progress under them. Is there actually much more to it?

 

 

Edited December 9, 2024 by Doctor Zaius

[Kid Icarus]

2 minutes ago, Doctor Zaius said:

I think every football fan of every club demands relative progress on the field. If that demand isn't met, then they call for whatever is hindering that progress to be rectified - whether that's the manager, ownership or players. At the heart of it all, it's a demand for on field progress, which basically equates to winning games. Scrape it all down and that's ultimately the top and bottom of it as far as I can see. 

 

The crux of the banner was about the demand being to actually even try to make relative progress on the field at ownership level. If you think the demand of all football fans is progress in itself and not the attempt to, then obviously that's your opinion, but it's certainly not my demand or my opinion like. 

[JEToon]

2 minutes ago, Doctor Zaius said:

 

Meh. We wanted rid of Ashley because he held the club back - which led to poor results on the field. We wanted PIF in because there's we'd progress under them. Is there actually much more to it?

 

 

 

 

 

I think you are mistaking your lack of research and education on this and imposing it on others here, but you do you.

 

The “we” who wanted Ashley gone did so because he was a risk to the clubs future for fuck sake

 

[Lush Vlad]

Stayed off here most of yesterday.  As I thought maybe I was being too emotionally charged with my views after yet another shit away performance/second half.  

 

But even now all of the annoyance, anger, disappointment and whatever else have mostly subsided from Saturday.  I still can't help thinking that I don't believe that Howe is going to turn this around and it just feels like we have seen that away performance and also the changes that make us worse, along with the game getting away from us, one too many times now.  

 

I don't think I'll ever be a vocal HOWE OUT type.  Not unless we were to go on some sort of Pardew/Bruce/Carver/McLaren type run of results, along with similar levels of performances that we saw under them.  As I really like the man and appreciate everything he has done.  He seems like a top bloke and all.  I genuinely want him to prove me and many others wrong and get us back on track.  I just can't see where it is coming from when there are so many issues at present and too many of the same mistakes being repeated.  

 

I have never got when a manager has the next 2-3 games to save their job.  As it is so short-term and it must mean there are serious doubts about them in the first place.  Getting a couple of good results doesn't suddenly solve all of the problems that exist.  However, to contradict myself a bit.  I do hope we can win our next 3 with some much better performances to match.  Then go into the tough run of festive fixtures with a bit of momentum and then who knows.     

[Doctor Zaius]

3 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

The crux of the banner was about the demand being to actually even try to make relative progress on the field at ownership level. If you think the demand of all football fans is progress in itself and not the attempt to, then obviously that's your opinion, but it's certainly not my demand or my opinion like. 

 

I guess that's where we differ in opinion then. The old adage of it being a results business is at the crux of it for me. Perhaps I'm just more cynical about your average fan.

[Stottie]

I think we've seen the beginning of the end, and if things don't improve in the next three or four games, you'd have to question whether spending for Howe is going to be worth it given the PSR consequences. The weakness of other teams around us mean that any new manager bounce would get us climbing the league much more quickly than a normal, 70 points to get 4th, season. This too adds fuel to the "change the manager earlier" fire.

 

While mistakes have been made, I don't think they are necessarily obvious mistakes. Looking back on 22/23 when we finished fourth, I would say our vulnerabilities were excessive reliance and predictability on Trippier for creativity, excessive reliance on the limited talent of Almiron for goals, and probable lack of depth at forward with Isak and Wilson only. However, we went on to score more goals in 23/24, kind of weird when you think about it, and the problems instead proved to be a lack of depth at keeper and an emerging chasm between defence and midfield, exacerbated by lack of pace at CB. It is this season, one season on, where I feel the 22/23 vulnerabilities have come home to roost, namely little threat from RW, insufficient creativity from midfield to make up for what Trippier used to do, and Wilson AWOL, leaving our forward options extermely limited. On top of this, the defensive issues of 23/24 have not been solved. 

 

Since the season is well advanced, I took a look at some stats and the one that leapt out was that we've gone from second top in percentage of shots on target last season to bottom this year. From highest goals per shot, to sixth worst. We underperformed xG last year, i.e., we created enough chances on the field to deserve a higher finish, but are performing on par this year.

[Yorkie]

I can't get my head around people not aligning with the message on that banner. It wasn't sanctimonious at all. Its purpose was to highlight that the club wasn't even trying to compete, all the while the fanbase was being continuously gaslit around supposedly unrealistic expectations. I can't believe anyone who's been on this forum long enough wouldn't get that. 

 

Obviously we all want a team that wins; the point was that, at the time - after years of deliberate regression - all we wanted (at the very fucking least) was for us to have a go. Deluded Geordies think they should be in the top 4! Er, just trying for something more than 17th and the 3rd round of the cup would be decent, like.

[Doctor Zaius]

7 minutes ago, JEToon said:

 

 

I think you are mistaking your lack of research and education on this and imposing it on others here, but you do you.

 

The “we” who wanted Ashley gone did so because he was a risk to the clubs future for fuck sake

 

 

Clearly my research and education, or lack of is causing me to miss a wider point here then. Why don't you enlighten me? 

 

His risk to the clubs future wouldn't have been down to hurtling towards a third relegation under his tenure would it? Or the years of finishing lower mid table? 

[mondonewc]

2 hours ago, Slim said:

Always found it very odd that people trot this out as if it was some huge flag that the whole of SJP held proudly to the world and we all have to stand by the message, rather than 10 people at an away game??? 

[KaKa]

32 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

We were better at the end of last season for sure.  With a worse squad available.  
 

The June - Sep shit show has sidetracked us completely. 

 

41 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

We don’t have any right to demand European football. 

 

I can't really go for this at all I'm afraid.

 

Two things. Committing to a better suited midfielder (the best of which is Tonali at the minute) at the base of our midfield in front of the back four. Making a firm decision on who would start on the left and who would start on the right.

 

If these decisions had been made with more confidence, and we played said team regularly as our agreed first team, I'm pretty certain we would have been a lot more convincing and consistent this season.

 

And if so, we would have been right in the mix for European football at the minimum, with how the league has played out.

 

Instead, we still don't even know what our first 11 is, and there's still a bunch of chopping and changing going on.

[mondonewc]

9 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

I can't get my head around people not aligning with the message on that banner. It wasn't sanctimonious at all. Its purpose was to highlight that the club wasn't even trying to compete, all the while the fanbase was being continuously gaslit around supposedly unrealistic expectations. I can't believe anyone who's been on this forum long enough wouldn't get that. 

 

Obviously we all want a team that wins; the point was that, at the time - after years of deliberate regression - all we wanted (at the very fucking least) was for us to have a go. Deluded Geordies think they should be in the top 4! Er, just trying for something more than 17th and the 3rd round of the cup would be decent, like.

The message was spot on at that time, however, it doesn't now mean it should be used as a stick to beat people with if anyone has any negative constructive criticism against the club. 

I think some of the comments in this thread are beyond nuts, I think anyone wanting Howe out is a huge overreaction, but that's just my opinion, maybe I'm wrong. If I make a flag and get a few people to hold it up supporting Howe does that mean everyone then has to agree with me forever? That's effectively what people are doing with this banner. 

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

I don’t know, seems like an encouragement to have a bit of perspective to me.

[Doctor Zaius]

I have absolutely no doubt that Eddie Howe is trying. If he loses the next five/ten/fifteen games then trying won't be enough to placate the majority of the fanbase. 

 

You can extrapolate that to the ownership over a relevant time frame. 

 

That equates to a demand of on field progress/winning for me, regardless of what was written on some banner, however many years ago. 

[JEToon]

2 minutes ago, Doctor Zaius said:

 

Clearly my research and education, or lack of is causing me to miss a wider point here then. Why don't you enlighten me? 

 

His risk to the clubs future wouldn't have been down to hurtling towards a third relegation under his tenure would it? Or the years of finishing lower mid table? 

 

It is causing you to miss a wider point yes, asset stripping the club, complete neglect of the academy, he is even now still attempting to tie the club up in court to muddy retail deals and our ability to retail properly and his complete neglect of running the club in the interest of anyone but himself for years. 

 

The notion so many were so irked by him is just because of a few crap league finishes is an absurd rewrite of history 

[Lush Vlad]

13 hours ago, Myleftboot said:

A different site says Adi Hutter who Paul Mitchell appointed for Monaco is a strong candidate.

 

Adolf 'Adi' Hutter.

 

Well he'd sort the right wing out, at least. 

[Yorkie]

12 minutes ago, mondonewc said:

The message was spot on at that time, however, it doesn't now mean it should be used as a stick to beat people with if anyone has any negative constructive criticism against the club. 

I think some of the comments in this thread are beyond nuts, I think anyone wanting Howe out is a huge overreaction, but that's just my opinion, maybe I'm wrong. If I make a flag and get a few people to hold it up supporting Howe does that mean everyone then has to agree with me forever? That's effectively what people are doing with this banner. 

 

8 minutes ago, Doctor Zaius said:

I have absolutely no doubt that Eddie Howe is trying. If he loses the next five/ten/fifteen games then trying won't be enough to placate the majority of the fanbase. 

 

You can extrapolate that to the ownership over a relevant time frame. 

 

That equates to a demand of on field progress/winning for me, regardless of what was written on some banner, however many years ago. 

 

I don't think the message on the banner holds that much relevance unless the fans are being gaslit about expectations + the club isn't trying. The message is still true imo, but it's not a particularly fair as a riposte to a fan who might complain that the club needs a change in order to progress. You're allowed to want better without being totally grounded by a message that was most relevant in 2014. But it certainly wasn't sanctimonious back then. 

[The College Dropout]

22 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

 

I can't really go for this at all I'm afraid.

 

Two things. Committing to a better suited midfielder (the best of which is Tonali at the minute) at the base of our midfield in front of the back four. Making a firm decision on who would start on the left and who would start on the right.

 

If these decisions had been made with more confidence, and we played said team regularly as our agreed first team, I'm pretty certain we would have been a lot more convincing and consistent this season.

 

And if so, we would have been right in the mix for European football at the minimum, with how the league has played out.

 

Instead, we still don't even know what our first 11 is, and there's still a bunch of chopping and changing going on.

There’s always things the manager could do better. I think overplaying and causing injuries to Wilson, Isak and Joelinton probably cost us 6th place last season. Not trusting Tino and Hall a little earlier cost us 6th place imo.  That midfield gap cost us 6th place. Howe has always made mistakes.  
 

But the squad should finish 7th ish and that’s what he did.  If Howe was the perfect manager maybe we could’ve finished 5/6th but he’s not perfect.  
 

Now we are a little down on where we should be. Agreed.  Yeh if Howe did everything right we would be 5th/6th.  As long as we are in touching distance of where we should finish 7th/8th im not going to complain too much. I do think June - Sep has caused a headwind and finishing 7th/8th would be a good job from Howe. Unless the mood changes I think a 9/10th would be ok even and the performances it brings. But I reckon he pays for that with his job.  
 

I stand by it - there’s no reason why we should demand European football. The cost of the squad nor the wages demand it.  The squad is stale. The atmosphere isn’t right.  A couple smart signings and a cup final would change everything aye.  

[Doctor Zaius]

23 minutes ago, JEToon said:

 

It is causing you to miss a wider point yes, asset stripping the club, complete neglect of the academy, he is even now still attempting to tie the club up in court to muddy retail deals and our ability to retail properly and his complete neglect of running the club in the interest of anyone but himself for years. 

 

The notion so many were so irked by him is just because of a few crap league finishes is an absurd rewrite of history 

 

It wasn't just a few crap league finishes though was it? It was going to be three relegations despite no PL relegation prior. It was going to be a solitary season in Europe. It was going to be year on year of absolute turgid football under footballing dinosaurs. Calling it 'a few crap league finishes' is a rewrite of history itself. 

 

The asset stripping, running the club for his own interest, lack of investment amongst a plethora of bad decisions all essentially translated to the above. One criticism was of his business practices, there was frequent criticism from a moral standpoint of his treatment of workers and how he should never have been associated with NUFC. It's a bit of an elephant in the room that one these days if we're honest. Im hardly trying to rewrite history by stating that, in my opinion the crux of the matter for the majority of football fans boils down to results on the pitch. 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2024 by Doctor Zaius

[AyeDubbleYoo]

I can’t see a situation where we fall so far behind that Howe gets sacked before the end of the season. Therefore we need to do everything to find him a couple of players in January IMO.
 

As hard as that is, a clear injection of fresh quality is our best chance to have a good season. Probably more than getting a new manager. And that’s without thinking of the long term impact of getting back on the manager rollercoaster.