Sempiternal Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 25 minutes ago, Dr Jinx said: All this tactical analysis is a bit pointless as it doesn’t really address the catalyst which is fatigue. We're conceding most of our goals after 70 mins so let’s just assume that with the right energy levels out “flat midfield” is actually fairly effective. Not so much when running on fumes. Post game and post training recovery needs to change/improve as it’s not working. Can’t really lay all that at Howe’s door either. His sports science department should be able to give him data that backs up what we’re all seeing on the pitch and make recommendations based on that. Well yeah, but if we are fatigued then trying to play that midfield, pressing like that only adds to the issues. I personally thought the midfield looked super open against villa (yes I know we beat them) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
soyt Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 But there is fatigue, so surely we then have to adapt to it. We are just doing the same thing and we dont have the tools to do it. You dont have to change everything, just tweek few things to try to overcome it. I dont know..It seems so clear where the issue is with the midfield and nothing is done to it. It is just very frustrating. We look so easy to play against. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Upthemags Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 54 minutes ago, Isaksbigrightfoot said: This is why we need to mix it up. We can’t do the same thing every game. Its why we couldn’t break down Luton and Forrest. Howe is a good manager and just needs to develop. He is not the finished article. Hard disagree - that same style got us Champions League football last season. What we need is more quality on the pitch, and fresh legs at 60 minutes on account of the accumulation of fatigue/injuries, and we are lacking in both categories Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomas Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Kills me that we're 1 Italian's gambling problem away from likely not even having this discussion at all He'd better put in prime gattuso performances for the next 10 years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaksbigrightfoot Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 31 minutes ago, Upthemags said: Hard disagree - that same style got us Champions League football last season. What we need is more quality on the pitch, and fresh legs at 60 minutes on account of the accumulation of fatigue/injuries, and we are lacking in both categories You always have to mix it up man. Honestly we can’t do the same plan every week. Especially when you have to adapt to the circumstances. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERTOON Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 33 minutes ago, Upthemags said: Hard disagree - that same style got us Champions League football last season. What we need is more quality on the pitch, and fresh legs at 60 minutes on account of the accumulation of fatigue/injuries, and we are lacking in both categories But when we haven’t got that extra quality and the injuries and fatigue is an issue, surely a tactical change is needed ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myleftboot Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 1 hour ago, The Prophet said: It's always been there, but only teams such as Brighton and Villa have been good enough to beat the press. Unfortunately, fatigue and absentees has made the press much easier to beat. Certainly has considering the amount of shots on target are in double figures against us past few games. Edited January 14 by Myleftboot Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 5 hours ago, Smal said: If our midfield line is pressing that high then the defensive line has to step up higher too. We can’t put all the focus on the midfield shape. The defence can’t be that deep when the midfield are pressing, it’s crazy. In the screenshot there’s no pressure on Rodri. You can’t step up unlesss there’s pressure on the ball/man. It’s when we have a mid/low midfield block with delayed press on the ball, it’s extremely easy to find a pass between the lines. 3 hours ago, Sempiternal said: Did we change formation last season, like towards the end? I don’t know if I have imagined it but I thought we did maybe around this time actually not the end of the season. Wonder if Howe will consider it again For 20 minutes against Fulham at home we went 4231. Isak behind Wilson. This season we’ve fluted with a back 5 a few times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Feels like we’re already turning the corner to me, we’ll be back on track soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smal Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 yeah. As mad as it sounds, getting Jacob Murphy back will be transformative for us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 I don’t buy that we’ve been figured out. But if we don’t switch things up - teams will figure it out even with a fully fit squad. We will need a win against a good team away from home at some point this season. And we won’t if we can’t play without the ball. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagten Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 7 hours ago, Isaksbigrightfoot said: The problem isn’t the defence for me. It’s that defensive midfield hole that we have. If we had a beast of a defensive midfielder teams wouldn’t be cutting through us. Agreed, and I meant defensive unit. I think the tweet also agrees and suggests why Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 2 hours ago, Dr Jinx said: All this tactical analysis is a bit pointless as it doesn’t really address the catalyst which is fatigue. We're conceding most of our goals after 70 mins so let’s just assume that with the right energy levels out “flat midfield” is actually fairly effective. Not so much when running on fumes. Post game and post training recovery needs to change/improve as it’s not working. Can’t really lay all that at Howe’s door either. His sports science department should be able to give him data that backs up what we’re all seeing on the pitch and make recommendations based on that. The way we play is partly responsible for the fatigue. You can’t play this sort of tactic when playing every three days, and with a squad blighted by injuries. And a lot of teams have sussed us, too. I think next season we‘ll see changes in play style etc. Howe will spend his ‘holidays’ (I don’t think the man rests) thinking of ways to change it up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 We definitely need to be more comfortable holding possession and slowing the game down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagten Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 27 minutes ago, Tiresias said: We definitely need to be more comfortable holding possession and slowing the game down. Yes, but extremely difficult to do that with Joelinton and Longstaff in midfield. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 I’m always a bit cautious about calling for adaptability or changing tactics drastically. The more important thing is to have a clear way of playing that everyone understands and every level of the club is on board with. There might be setbacks as we’re seeing now, but the vision and striving for it is what gives you clarity and consistency from top to bottom. Of course there has to be tweaks to deal with different opponents etc, but I’m not sure I want my manager to chuck his approach in the bin because we have injuries. He’s been developing his view on football for decades. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
janpawel Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 hour ago, Tiresias said: We definitely need to be more comfortable holding possession and slowing the game down. This for me, I want Howe to be here for as long as possible, I hope this is his next stage of evolution from next season Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiresias Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 I agree with all and the idea we could switch out to a new way of playing with same players mid season is a fantasy, nor do i want us to as a whole, the high intensity press is fine but a few alternate players just to make us better at it, so we can lean that way a bit more when we need to give legs a rest. That is not to say we will be the best at posession, we are not going ot be the best high press and best ball holders until all players are £100m players if that could happen lol, just saying we could be better at it, but it will take time and it will take players leaving and players coming Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
relámpago blanco Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 hour ago, Jagten said: Yes, but extremely difficult to do that with Joelinton and Longstaff in midfield. Joelinton is out for 6 weeks and actually for Bruno and Miley this is perfect for their game. I'm not sure this would suit the team though. We are designed to break quickly, press aggressively and when we turnover in their half be there ready to capitalise. Our problem is fitness and lack of training due to the games. We'll get into a rhythm and finish in the top 6 or 7. |January is going to be tough and Im not sure brining a player in now is going to see fruit until late feb early march whilst they come to terms with our system. Phillips probably can but I reckon he'll end up at West ham to replace rice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 hour ago, Tiresias said: We definitely need to be more comfortable holding possession and slowing the game down. We do but this we don’t have the personnel for atm. If we are going to run around without the ball we can take off Isak if he’s too tired to do it effectively imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 I’d be happy with just plugging that midfield gap mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 Was listening to Wilson’s podcast. He heavily implied he rushed himself back before he was fully fit and has now paid the cost. I think there’s been a culture of that at the club this season. He also spoke about him being out - Alex being overloaded then getting injured himself - so Wilson rushes back and the cycle repeats. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucasol Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 12 hours ago, relámpago blanco said: Phillips probably can but I reckon he'll end up at West ham to replace rice. Don’t see it now that Alvarez is settling in well to their set up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledGeordie Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 23 minutes ago, The College Dropout said: Was listening to Wilson’s podcast. He heavily implied he rushed himself back before he was fully fit and has now paid the cost. I think there’s been a culture of that at the club this season. He also spoke about him being out - Alex being overloaded then getting injured himself - so Wilson rushes back and the cycle repeats. While I do think we’ve been unfortunate with injuries I’m sure the medical team and management will probably look back at certain decisions and think “did we do the right thing”. I’d imagine the severity of the situation probably made them roll the dice or take a risk more than they would’ve liked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnbull2000 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 Forum favourite Louise Taylor somewhat scathing of Howe on the Guardian website today Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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