TheBrownBottle Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 6 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said: A lot of the issues are nothing to do with the back line as such, though. It's about having no options in the front 6 positions to freshen things up when we're trying to keep the ball, chase the ball, hold the ball up front. Dummett and Lascelles don't change that. I agreed that this is part of the problem, but that gap between DF and MF is an also a problem which isn’t to do with freshness, and Guardiola clearly spotted how wide it had become. Bringing on Lascelles and pushing Schar just in front of the back four doesn’t seem that crazy an option Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 1 minute ago, Erikse said: Just saw the interview Howe did on talksport. He said: "I allways believe in time you'll get the results that you crave if you keep being consistent with what you do." What we are doing works when we have the energy levels plus a bench, but what if we are back in Europe and/or get another injury crisis? Our players will go through fatigue (and injury problems) again in future seasons. Yeah, I’m not sure that repeating something until it works always pays off. If we’re in Europe again next season and no lessons are learned then it will happen again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erikse Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 Just now, TheBrownBottle said: Yeah, I’m not sure that repeating something until it works always pays off. If we’re in Europe again next season and no lessons are learned then it will happen again. Yeah, I'm not sure how literal he's being in that statement, and to what extent he wants to use that philosophy. I agree that consistency is important, but sometimes flexibility is important aswell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 1 minute ago, Erikse said: Yeah, I'm not sure how literal he's being in that statement, and to what extent he wants to use that philosophy. I agree that consistency is important, but sometimes flexibility is important aswell. His style has evolved over recent years as well. I can’t picture Howe making dramatic changes tbf - but I still think he’ll be smart enough to identify the tweaks he’ll need to make during the summer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 The gap between the defence and the midfield is exploited when our press is beaten. Absentees and a fatigued front six makes it that much easier to beat. We force less errors from the opposition and leave the defence exposed. Without a number six type or being able to do a whole lot of work on the training ground until recently, the only solution seemed like a more risk adverse style of football, which Howe was never interested in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 If we happen to have another season with players more or less constantly out to this extent then I'll be more concerned about that than how we respond to it, but until then I'm willing to view it as a freak season that probably won't be repeated Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilson Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 49 minutes ago, Erikse said: What we are doing works really well when we have the energy levels to do it, plus a bench. What if we are back in Europe and/or get another injury crisis? Our players will go through fatigue (and injury problems) again in future seasons. Yes but by then it shouldn't have as much of a negative effect as we'll hopefully have a very capable squad and academy to call on. It's going to take time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 58 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: If we happen to have another season with players more or less constantly out to this extent then I'll be more concerned about that than how we respond to it, but until then I'm willing to view it as a freak season that probably won't be repeated And then my friend reminds me that Howe last season at Bournemouth was exactly like this - serious injury crisis this ended up worst defending record in the league. Anyone mind to verify this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaksbigrightfoot Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 9 minutes ago, Zero said: And then my friend reminds me that Howe last season at Bournemouth was exactly like this - serious injury crisis this ended up worst defending record in the league. Anyone mind to verify this? It is possible when you implement a style of play which hinges on players putting their absolute soul on the line to get every last ounce of ability. At some point a switch has to happen between that and quality overtaking. Which is where we are. Players will become better and thus have to rely less on work rate but that work rate will still remain. Which means an optimal level of players which we simply do not have. So Eddie is going to have to adapt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghandis Flip-Flop Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 39 minutes ago, Zero said: And then my friend reminds me that Howe last season at Bournemouth was exactly like this - serious injury crisis this ended up worst defending record in the league. Anyone mind to verify this? Right I get people’s frustration but let’s actually look at the types of injuries we've had this season. Murphy and Pope - Dislocated shoulders - so not related to training or playing intensity Barnes - freak foot injury - not related to playing or training intensity Burn - Fractured back - impact injury following awkward fall - not related to playing or training intensity Anderson - Spinal stress fracture - unsure of circumstances resulting in injury - possibly training related? Willock and Joelinton - recurrent muscle injuries - genuine possibility these haven’t been managed well, but given the lack of minutes Willock had it’s not down to cumulative intensity of play. Botman - ACL issue post impact - impact injury not related to intensity - was initially misdiagnosed however which is a black mark against the medical team. Wilson - continues to be made of glass. So whilst I’d agree there is much for the entire club to learn, I’d argue a significant portion of these long term injuries are just unfortunate, rather than being the result of how the team play. Obviously in top of this the Tonali situation has left us short of numbers in midfield too, which has resulted in overplaying of whoever is currently fit. But that would potentially be an issue even if we played in a less intensive tactical manner. Mainly as I suspect much of the fatigue the players are experiencing is mental rather than physical Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 16 hours ago, Erikse said: Just saw the interview Howe did on talksport. He said: "I allways believe in time you'll get the results that you crave if you keep being consistent with what you do." What we are doing works really well when we have the energy levels to do it, plus a bench. What if we are back in Europe and/or get another injury crisis? Our players will go through fatigue (and injury problems) again in future seasons. Agreed. I'm not seeing Howe evolve his thinking or his approach. Injuries to Tino, Schar, Joelinton, Lascelles, Willock, Isak & Wilson can partly be attributed to overplaying or being rushed back to soon. Burn, Isak, Joelinton & Gordon have either played looking very unfit and/or carrying a knock. He's got to adapt his approach to load management and playing players' with knocks going forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 You'd imagine he won't have an injury crisis like this anytime in the future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Well if we keep doing things the same way we have been, and, and it's a big and, we are in Europe again next year, it would be reasonable to assume we may have injury problems again. To put it all down to luck and hope it won't happen again would be slightly ridiculous at this point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cf Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 You'd think he played the same 11 every game and never subbed by the way people go on in here. Villa - 5 subs https://www.nufc.com/2023-24html/2023-08-12aston-villa-h.html Man City - 5 subs https://www.nufc.com/2023-24html/2023-08-19man-city-a.html Liverpool - 5 subs https://www.nufc.com/2023-24html/2023-08-27liverpool-h.html Brighton - 5 subs https://www.nufc.com/2023-24html/2023-09-02brighton-a.html Brentford - Only 1 with Isak and Tonali notable non-starters ready for... https://www.nufc.com/2023-24html/2023-09-16brentford-h.html AC Milan - 4 subs https://www.nufc.com/2023-24html/2023-09-19ac-milan-a.html I mean I could go on. There was clearly an effort to rotate but we have to remember he doesn't really have the squad for it. Our best starting 11 on its day can give anyone a game but there's a big drop off in quality after that. So he's trying to keep players fit whilst trying to compete as a top 4 team and our squad simply isn't one of a top 4 team. Add to that the freak injuries/suspensions and I dare while say there's some lessons to be learned speculation around "he should have done this", "he should of done that" given the shit hand he was dealt is to miss the point. If people think we should have been playing Ritchie and the like then we're at the level of argument of who was worse out of Bruce and Pardew. Such are the fine margins the game operates at: no penalty against PSG and we're potentially still in Europe. No freak mistake from Trippier and we're still in the League Cup. To have got that close with what he's had available for the last few months is pretty good going in my book. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 13 minutes ago, Cf said: You'd think he played the same 11 every game and never subbed by the way people go on in here. Villa - 5 subs https://www.nufc.com/2023-24html/2023-08-12aston-villa-h.html Man City - 5 subs https://www.nufc.com/2023-24html/2023-08-19man-city-a.html Liverpool - 5 subs https://www.nufc.com/2023-24html/2023-08-27liverpool-h.html Brighton - 5 subs https://www.nufc.com/2023-24html/2023-09-02brighton-a.html Brentford - Only 1 with Isak and Tonali notable non-starters ready for... https://www.nufc.com/2023-24html/2023-09-16brentford-h.html AC Milan - 4 subs https://www.nufc.com/2023-24html/2023-09-19ac-milan-a.html I mean I could go on. There was clearly an effort to rotate but we have to remember he doesn't really have the squad for it. Our best starting 11 on its day can give anyone a game but there's a big drop off in quality after that. So he's trying to keep players fit whilst trying to compete as a top 4 team and our squad simply isn't one of a top 4 team. Add to that the freak injuries/suspensions and I dare while say there's some lessons to be learned speculation around "he should have done this", "he should of done that" given the shit hand he was dealt is to miss the point. If people think we should have been playing Ritchie and the like then we're at the level of argument of who was worse out of Bruce and Pardew. Such are the fine margins the game operates at: no penalty against PSG and we're potentially still in Europe. No freak mistake from Trippier and we're still in the League Cup. To have got that close with what he's had available for the last few months is pretty good going in my book. No argument with most of that, but if we have the likes of Ritchie and Alex Murphy on the bench who we aren't prepared to use, then the bench is worthless anyway. Ritchie shouldn't be using up a squad space if he's not good enough to come on when we are down to our bare bones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cf Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 6 minutes ago, TRon said: No argument with most of that, but if we have the likes of Ritchie and Alex Murphy on the bench who we aren't prepared to use, then the bench is worthless anyway. Ritchie shouldn't be using up a squad space if he's not good enough to come on when we are down to our bare bones. Well of course he shouldn't be but we have 10 years of Ashley that doesn't get undone overnight Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bimpy474 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 (edited) If and when we're back in Europe the squad will be better, with more quality. The talk is if we'll go with the same players. It's a slow build, FFP has seen to that. I know it's a big ask for some, but patience is needed. Imo there are zero alarms bells ringing, everything in front of us has it reasons, injuries, cheated out of Europe imo. And tbf, Eddie has shown some inexperience, which I'm certain he'll learn from once the squad is back together. On that, last season he swapped around the midfield and striker's to great effect, funnily enough we didn't have a whole 11 missing then. Edited January 16 by Bimpy474 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erikse Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 (edited) 51 minutes ago, The Prophet said: You'd imagine he won't have an injury crisis like this anytime in the future. No, not as bad, but several clubs have had around 10 injuries at the same time this season. It's like a new trend in the PL. I'd assume that the new stoppage time rules causes more injuries and fatigue. We should have a stronger bench in future seasons though, I agree with that. At the same time having around 10 injuries will allways put more strain on the remaining players, especially with a game every 3 days, while also having an intense playstyle. Edited January 16 by Erikse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groundhog63 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 4 minutes ago, Cf said: Well of course he shouldn't be but we have 10 years of Ashley that doesn't get undone overnight Don't waste logic on them man Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groundhog63 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 I don't know why the club don't just employ some of the experts off here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 5 minutes ago, Groundhog63 said: I don't know why the club don't just employ some of the experts off here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erikse Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Groundhog63 said: I don't know why the club don't just employ some of the experts off here. Yeah, it's not like any fans has ever been right about criticizing a manager on a part of his game, despite not being experts. Right? Edited January 16 by Erikse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanji Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 1 hour ago, The College Dropout said: Agreed. I'm not seeing Howe evolve his thinking or his approach. Injuries to Tino, Schar, Joelinton, Lascelles, Willock, Isak & Wilson can partly be attributed to overplaying or being rushed back to soon. Burn, Isak, Joelinton & Gordon have either played looking very unfit and/or carrying a knock. He's got to adapt his approach to load management and playing players' with knocks going forward. Tino is hurt? He was sick last week. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 Can please stop this Howe out chat and reassess in the summer and can we absolutely stop this Mourinho in shit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 5 minutes ago, Kanji said: Tino is hurt? He was sick last week. Not the recent one. There was a game where he was on the bench due to a slight muscle injury caused by overload. Maybe Chelsea? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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