Eddie Howe

[Erikse]

I find it kind of funny how the first thing Klopp does when he has a bench like we had in december is to do the exact opposite of what Howe did all december, to actually use his bench for fresh legs. Not only that, but he did it in a cup final, so it wasn't even just about saving legs for next game but crucially for having any fresh legs out there. And guess what, the team didn't fall apart at all. According to what many here said in december, this was clearly a mistake by Klopp. "Howe knows better than you", yeah sure, but Klopp also knows better than you. He also knows better than Howe.

 

I'd imagine that if Howe was the manager in that final he not use a single one of those academy players for the 120 min, sticking with players who can't run, and then some would have people defending him saying "he had no other choice, just look at the bench".

 

 

Edited February 26 by Erikse

[Zero]

We all know Howe won’t play any youngsters in the final.

 

A proper excuse is Liverpools youth are much better than ours so Klopp can use them but we can’t.

 

and then last week I just know we let go a 16 years old young kid midfielder to Chelsea who just made the bench for their first team squad 

and last night Bobby Clark, who left us 2 year ago, was shining for Liverpool.
 

fucking hell. I ain’t targeting Howe, I I am targeting probably the club as a whole, for many years, that we did not do enough for protecting, developing and giving youngsters promise to stay in our club. 
 

Bobby Clark made the right decision, and this final would just encourage the upcoming Bobby Clark to do the same 

 

 

Edited February 26 by Zero

[Lordshola]

1 hour ago, Erikse said:

I find it kind of funny how the first thing Klopp does when he has a bench like we had in december is to do the exact opposite of what Howe did all december, to actually use his bench for fresh legs. Not only that, but he did it in a cup final, so it wasn't even just about saving legs for next game but crucially for having any fresh legs out there. And guess what, the team didn't fall apart at all. According to what many here said in december, this was clearly a mistake by Klopp. "Howe knows better than you", yeah sure, but Klopp also knows better than you all. He also knows better than Howe as a manager.

 

I'd imagine that if Howe was the manager in that final he not use a single one of those academy players for the 120 min, sticking with players who can't run, and then you would have people defending him saying "he had no other choice, just look at the bench".

 

 

 

Well said.

 

The reason we can’t use the bench seems to be because they’re not playing enough to be trusted/fit the system etc..

 

There’s a simple way to fix that.

 

For me, I’d rather have a fresh youngster with no experience playing instead of someone like Big Joe who is running in fumes and ends up injured anyway, but still we have no replacement except for the 87th minute of course!

[Vinny Green Balls]

1 hour ago, Kanji said:

Go away. 

unfortunately the CHUDS are out in full force. If Howe wins a few in a row, they'll of course disappear back into the sewer.

[McDog]

Just now, Vinny Green Balls said:

unfortunately the CHUDS are out in full force. If Howe wins a few in a row, they'll of course disappear back into the sewer.

 

 

Gotta ask, is that referencing C.H.U.D which I quite liked as a movie back then or am I way off the mark? I'm sure I'm off the mark.

[GideonShandy]

Think you're right.

Cannibalistic Humanoid Underground Dwellers

[Vinny Green Balls]

8 minutes ago, McDog said:

 

 

Gotta ask, is that referencing C.H.U.D which I quite liked as a movie back then or am I way off the mark? I'm sure I'm off the mark.

I was referencing actual Cannibalistic Humanoid Underground Dwellers. Not the movie propaganda version.

[Erikse]

2 hours ago, Zero said:

We all know Howe won’t play any youngsters in the final.

 

A proper excuse is Liverpools youth are much better than ours so Klopp can use them but we can’t.

 

and then last week I just know we let go a 16 years old young kid midfielder to Chelsea who just made the bench for their first team squad 

and last night Bobby Clark, who left us 2 year ago, was shining for Liverpool.
 

fucking hell. I ain’t targeting Howe, I I am targeting probably the club as a whole, for many years, that we did not do enough for protecting, developing and giving youngsters promise to stay in our club. 
 

Bobby Clark made the right decision, and this final would just encourage the upcoming Bobby Clark to do the same 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, that's fair, but only if you look at it in relation to who he took off and compare those players to the players in our team that Howe could've taken off. He brought off Mac Allister and Gakpo, and I would assume that they were not nearly as knackered as our players were back in december. So there is also more of an argument to keep those players on the field rather than subbing them for someone who hasn't started before, or even played at all (?). Yet he did. And as I said, I can't see Howe doing what Klopp did if he was in the exact same situation with the same players and setup.

 

Also, Howe had 2 reasons to do it. Fresh legs and resting players so that they could perform in coming games. This was a final, so you don't really think about resting players for future games.

 

 

Edited February 26 by Erikse

[Zero]

It’s for both, keeping your core players fresh for the remaining games, and give experience to the youngsters so they can really step up when needed. It’s  simple long-term squad planning.

 

It’s something Howe should have done regularly, not just this season, not just during injury crisis. And as I said, the problem probably stems deeper than just the manager. It’s the club as a whole. A very simple question, why would Bobby Clark get a guaranteed first team develop path in Liverpool, by that time a ECL winner, but not something similar here? Surely the competition in Liverpool is much more intensive and Bobby should get his chance here for long?

 

People always say the youngsters aren’t good enough so we shouldn’t play. You reap what you sow. If they can only getting minutes when they are as good as Owen at 18, or Miley at 17, then those late bloomers really should go elsewhere. We simply will not “develop” them. We just give minutes to the best eleven.

[macphisto]

5 minutes ago, Zero said:

It’s for both, keeping your core players fresh for the remaining games, and give experience to the youngsters so they can really step up when needed. It’s  simple long-term squad planning.

 

It’s something Howe should have done regularly, not just this season, not just during injury crisis. And as I said, the problem probably stems deeper than just the manager. It’s the club as a whole. A very simple question, why would Bobby Clark get a guaranteed first team develop path in Liverpool, by that time a ECL winner, but not something similar here? Surely the competition in Liverpool is much more intensive and Bobby should get his chance here for long?

 

People always say the youngsters aren’t good enough so we shouldn’t play. You reap what you sow. If they can only getting minutes when they are as good as Owen at 18, or Miley at 17, then those late bloomers really should go elsewhere. We simply will not “develop” them. We just give minutes to the best eleven.

Clark went pre-takeover, any decent parent would not have their son anywhere near an Ashley-ran Newcastle. 

[Zero]

5 minutes ago, macphisto said:

Clark went pre-takeover, any decent parent would not have their son anywhere near an Ashley-ran Newcastle. 

It doesn’t really that matter who the owner is to a youngster at 16 or 17. If that means more first team minutes and higher chance to break out, they probably welcome that.

 

And Ollie Harrison left us after the takeover. Just a few months ago.

[Mazzy]

17 minutes ago, Zero said:

It doesn’t really that matter who the owner is to a youngster at 16 or 17. If that means more first team minutes and higher chance to break out, they probably welcome that.

 

And Ollie Harrison left us after the takeover. Just a few months ago.

 

Ofcourse it matters. We're making better choices as football club now and that's always important for anyone employed by the club, even a youth player.

 

It's why we've just signed a kid from Man City for our u21s. Because he knows he's got a better chance here then he does there. The facilities are obviously better at Man City but atleast he has an opportunity to progress a bit quicker into the first team here. Just like Bobby Clark would have done if he'd stuck it out for a few more months (not that I'm blaming him for wanting to leave, it was the right decision for him in that moment). 

[macphisto]

18 minutes ago, Zero said:

It doesn’t really that matter who the owner is to a youngster at 16 or 17. If that means more first team minutes and higher chance to break out, they probably welcome that.

 

And Ollie Harrison left us after the takeover. Just a few months ago.

It would matter to me if I was a parent and should to a young player too when the club was as dysfunctional as Newcastle were pre-takeover. 

 

I can't comment on Harrison, my main point was Newcastle under Ashley. 

 

 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Erikse said:

I find it kind of funny how the first thing Klopp does when he has a bench like we had in december is to do the exact opposite of what Howe did all december, to actually use his bench for fresh legs. Not only that, but he did it in a cup final, so it wasn't even just about saving legs for next game but crucially for having any fresh legs out there. And guess what, the team didn't fall apart at all. According to what many here said in december, this was clearly a mistake by Klopp. "Howe knows better than you", yeah sure, but Klopp also knows better than you. He also knows better than Howe.

 

I'd imagine that if Howe was the manager in that final he not use a single one of those academy players for the 120 min, sticking with players who can't run, and then some would have people defending him saying "he had no other choice, just look at the bench".

 

 

 

 

Pretty sure if our kids were as good as theirs, he'd be playing them (see Miley).

 

Our equivalent of the kid they threw on up top is currently on loan in the Scottish 3rd tier, for instance. 

[TheBrownBottle]

4 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

 

Pretty sure if our kids were as good as theirs, he'd be playing them (see Miley).

 

Our equivalent of the kid they threw on up top is currently on loan in the Scottish 3rd tier, for instance. 

Miley wouldn’t have been getting minutes if the others were fit.  It’s desperation that caused him to play.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Miley wouldn’t have been getting minutes if the others were fit.  It’s desperation that caused him to play.

 

Same with Klopp at the moment. They'd not be playing if their players were fit.

 

Difference is, they've had one of the best youth setups in years, ours has been neglected and we likely won't see the benefits of any changes at that level in the first team for a few years yet. 

 

 

Edited February 26 by Optimistic Nut

[TheBrownBottle]

5 minutes ago, Optimistic Nut said:

 

Same with Klopp at the moment. They'd not be playing if their players were fit.

 

Difference is, they've had one of the best youth setups in years, ours has been neglected and we likely won't see the benefits of any changes at level in the first team for a few years yet. 

 

 

 

Yep, agreed

[Gallowgate Toon]

Klopp has been criticised for running players into the ground. He's had extensive injury lists on many occasions.

 

 

Edited February 26 by Gallowgate Toon

[Big Jow]

7 hours ago, Hanshithispantz said:

Sorry like but this is obviously silly.

 

We took the game to Milan, they just defended really well (Tomori was briliant) and slaughtered us on the break. Not sure how you watched it and thought he'd set us up for a draw?

 

Most of these games were during our worst period for injuries and fixture congestion. 

 

I'd be amazed if he was setting us up much different outside of tactical tweaks to suite the opposition. We played well against Villa and they were shite. If we were bad and lost you would have lumped them in with the other games and blamed the way we set up.

 

Again, what approach? We clearly tried to control the game at the San Siro. 

 

How are we meant to play with intensity with a threadbare squad?

 

Howe wants push up the pitch and set pressing traps, shuttle the opposition out to the wings and clear away speculative balls and crosses. This is obvious by watching us play with a near fully fit squad.

 

The fact we've mainly dropped the 'intensity is our identity' style of play should be a good indicator that we just cannot apply the effort.

 

Why would you assume this is some random tactical diversion, rather than something forced onto him by our situation?

 

See last comment.

 

After the WC teams seemed to suss us a bit, but he sorted it out. The season tailed off last few games, but I wouldn't say we struggled?

 

Too much to really get into here. He'll likely change a lot of things in hindsight, but a lot of the things people say he should do will never address our actual issue, which is our inability to be physical enough to control games like we used to.

 

Teams like Luton and Bournemouth just looked far fitter than us. More athletic and quicker to 2nd balls. 

 

Who exactly do we bring on from that bench, who is going to be capable of single handedly besting PSG's back line?

 

Riviere at least has the physicality to win an aerial challenge, and if he was still here he no doubt would have came on 

 

But just throwing on random National League level 18 year olds is unlikely to do anything. With Isak, even when fucked, there's always the chance he can make something happen.

 

This applies to any manager. 90% of the time you know how they'll set up.

 

Our issue is that even the likes of Everton, Luton and Bournemouth know that they're fitter than us, and can bully us off the ball.

 

Why would we finish 8-12 every year? He had us consistent top 4 for over a year and a half, before an insane injury crisis.

 

Replacing him in the summer would be absolute insanity.

 

 

 

 

We “took the game to Milan” with an xG of 0.19, 1 shot on target compared to theirs of 2.05 and 8. We barely left our own half for large periods of that game. You surely can’t believe that.

 

Disagree about your assumption of Villa. We were brilliant on the day and played about 30 yards further forward and onto them, the stats and the eye back that up.

 

Same reason I didn’t include games like Wolves and West Ham in my post, despite not winning those we set up totally different tactically.

 

I explained in my post the rationale for believing it was a tactical diversion is because we’ve played that way from the start of the season in ‘tough’ away games, despite any injury crisis.

 

This also isn’t hindsight, I’ve thought it most of the season but haven’t been a member on here. If you’d like proof of that I’d happily forward you copies of various Whatsapp messages to friends/family discussing it. I think it was the Bournemouth away game where I first recognised this.

 

Again directing you back to my post, I wasn’t asking anyone to “singlehandedly beat PSG’s back line”. I’d have bought Parkinson on for Isak with probably 10-15 minutes to go, he’d have been able to run, which Isak couldn’t. Every time we cleared the ball forward, it came straight back. Even if Parkinson did nothing other than win a foul, or hold the ball up for 5 seconds longer, it’d made the world of difference to the constant pressure we invited otherwise.

 

I agree on your comment regarding 90% of managers. That’s often why they end up getting sacked though. Because it goes sour and they are too stubborn to change it.

[Kid Icarus]

Have I just seen posts decrying how we don't take it to the better teams?

[Andy]

44 minutes ago, Big Jow said:

 

We “took the game to Milan” with an xG of 0.19, 1 shot on target compared to theirs of 2.05 and 8. We barely left our own half for large periods of that game. You surely can’t believe that.

 

Disagree about your assumption of Villa. We were brilliant on the day and played about 30 yards further forward and onto them, the stats and the eye back that up.

 

Same reason I didn’t include games like Wolves and West Ham in my post, despite not winning those we set up totally different tactically.

 

I explained in my post the rationale for believing it was a tactical diversion is because we’ve played that way from the start of the season in ‘tough’ away games, despite any injury crisis.

 

This also isn’t hindsight, I’ve thought it most of the season but haven’t been a member on here. If you’d like proof of that I’d happily forward you copies of various Whatsapp messages to friends/family discussing it. I think it was the Bournemouth away game where I first recognised this.

 

Again directing you back to my post, I wasn’t asking anyone to “singlehandedly beat PSG’s back line”. I’d have bought Parkinson on for Isak with probably 10-15 minutes to go, he’d have been able to run, which Isak couldn’t. Every time we cleared the ball forward, it came straight back. Even if Parkinson did nothing other than win a foul, or hold the ball up for 5 seconds longer, it’d made the world of difference to the constant pressure we invited otherwise.

 

I agree on your comment regarding 90% of managers. That’s often why they end up getting sacked though. Because it goes sour and they are too stubborn to change it.

 

I wondered if you're both talking about different games? Milan away was definitely backs to wall and was indicative early on of what our away performances would generally look like this season.

 

Milan at home we definitely had a go, arguably naively so at times. 

[Interpolic]

6 hours ago, Strawberry said:

The old HTT type of post great analysis

 

[Coffee_Johnny]

9 hours ago, Big Jow said:

 

That’s that then. Every time we play a team with a higher squad value or perceived quality, we should retreat onto our goal line and concede the game from the first whistle.

 

Brest went to PSG and completely outplayed them in the second half, getting a draw from 2-0 down. Bologna at Milan too.

 

We had less shots at Arsenal in the whole game than West Ham did in the first half, when they, also won. Burnley put up a bigger fight than we did.

 

You can get results at these teams, granted you will ultimately need a bit of luck on your side and to have your team playing at 100%, but you’ll get neither of those setting up like we have.

Is that the way Howe’s team played n the victory over Arsenal this season? (1-0 H) or the May 2022 2-0 H win? What about Man City in the League Cup (1-0 H)? or the narrow loss to them (0-1) away? Or the 3-3 H draw last season? Or even the 2-3 loss this season. We’ve scored six in three home games to ‘that’ side. How about the two victories against Man Utd this season (3-0 A and 1-0 H)? Or the away draw (0-0) and home victory (2-0) over them last season? What about the 4-1 H defeat of Chelsea? 

Did the 2-1 A and 6-1 H victories over Spurs last season count? Or the last two home demolitions of Villa? (5-1 and 4-0)? Even the 1-2 loss at home to Liverpool when we had 60% possession and 23 shots. 
 

Or do you think Howe’s tactics in the last game and the disappointment of not beating teams at home recently in some way wipe out the past performances and just show that this is the Howe/NUFC way? We’ve seen some amazing performances, and despite the ‘he only plays one way’ baloney, of course he/they are flexible tactically and will cut their cloth according to the opposition and the way we think we’ll get the best result. And of course it is not always going to work. Man City, Liverpool and Arsenal are absolutely top class teams who we can still only aspire to be like. Ourselves and Villa are in the conversation with Man Utd, Chelsea, and Spurs. Even in the best case scenario we’ll be hovering around top third for an another season or two. Howe is our second best PL era manager in terms of points return. He will be the best by the end of next season. Just settle in and enjoy the ride. 

[Big Jow]

Just now, Coffee_Johnny said:

Is that the way Howe’s team played n the victory over Arsenal this season? (1-0 H) or the May 2022 2-0 H win? What about Man City in the League Cup (1-0 H)? or the narrow loss to them (0-1) away? Or the 3-3 H draw last season? Or even the 2-3 loss this season. We’ve scored six in three home games to ‘that’ side. How about the two victories against Man Utd this season (3-0 A and 1-0 H)? Or the away draw (0-0) and home victory (2-0) over them last season? What about the 4-1 H defeat of Chelsea? 

Did the 2-1 A and 6-1 H victories over Spurs last season count? Or the last two home demolitions of Villa? (5-1 and 4-0)? Even the 1-2 loss at home to Liverpool when we had 60% possession and 23 shots. 
 

Or do you think Howe’s tactics in the last game and the disappointment of not beating teams at home recently in some way wipe out the past performances and just show that this is the Howe/NUFC way? We’ve seen some amazing performances, and despite the ‘he only plays one way’ baloney, of course he/they are flexible tactically and will cut their cloth according to the opposition and the way we think we’ll get the best result. And of course it is not always going to work. Man City, Liverpool and Arsenal are absolutely top class teams who we can still only aspire to be like. Ourselves and Villa are in the conversation with Man Utd, Chelsea, and Spurs. Even in the best case scenario we’ll be hovering around top third for an another season or two. Howe is our second best PL era manager in terms of points return. He will be the best by the end of next season. Just settle in and enjoy the ride. 

 

I think you’ve misinterpreted the sarcasm in the response I was giving to the quoted post.

[Hanshithispantz]

1 hour ago, Big Jow said:

 

We “took the game to Milan” with an xG of 0.19, 1 shot on target compared to theirs of 2.05 and 8. We barely left our own half for large periods of that game. You surely can’t believe that.

Your point was that we set out for a draw, and this was the template since for away games. We set out to control the ball and obviously wanted to contain it in their half, they were great though, similar to Dortmund at SJP, and cut us apart on the break. 2nd half they took control of the game and it was a painful watch, but we definitely didn't turn up at the San Siro with the plan of camping in our own half, or playing out a draw.

 

1 hour ago, Big Jow said:

 

Disagree about your assumption of Villa. We were brilliant on the day and played about 30 yards further forward and onto them, the stats and the eye back that up.

We were brilliant, but I don't know why you think this is down to Howe specifically taking a different approach in that game though?

 

Other than fatigue, and at places like Man City/Liverpool/Arsenal, Howe will want to play up the pitch and step onto the opposition, it's his entire philosophy as a manager, and it's how we defend and attack.

 

I'm not denying Howe will have made a lot of mistakes this season, but I cannot see why he would willingly throw away his philosophy, we've spent the majority of the season with a butchered squad so it's hard to gauge much:

 

West Ham

Shef Utd

Milan

Brighton

Man City 

 

Those were our away games before we hit that period of bad injuries/suspensions.

 

 

Edited February 26 by Hanshithispantz