Eddie Howe

[TRon]

Just now, The College Dropout said:

Yeh I think we are on the same page.  Howe won’t survive finishing below Fulham Brentford and Brighton.  Bur he should get the season to try. 
 

I don’t think the squad is good enough that a change in manager will have us fighting for 5th/6th. 

 

Yep, I definitely think he needs to be allowed to turn it around, there's still plenty of season left to do it. I'm just far less confident he'll do it because we don't seem to have any coherent team ethos this season. The players themselves don't seem to by buying into whatever it is we are trying to do.

[r0cafella]

2 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Yeh I think we are on the same page.  Howe won’t survive finishing below Fulham Brentford and Brighton.  Bur he should get the season to try. 
 

I don’t think the squad is good enough that a change in manager will have us fighting for 5th/6th. 

To be frank we need a manager who aligns with the overall vision, a lot of the issues we faced today are also relatable to the power struggle which occured over the summer. The strop thrown in Germany was quite eye opening and surprising. 

[hakka]

3 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

To be frank we need a manager who aligns with the overall vision, a lot of the issues we faced today are also relatable to the power struggle which occured over the summer. The strop thrown in Germany was quite eye opening and surprising. 

 

I've listened to a lot of Eddie as he's quite fascinating to listen to generally. Usually he navigates questions of dramatic nature very well but that's probably the one that definitely was blunt about feeling in the dark and concerned about a loss of control. He would have swerved it and left nothing to go on else.

[r0cafella]

Just now, hakka said:

 

I've listened to a lot of Eddie as he's quite fascinating to listen to generally. Usually he navigates questions of dramatic nature very well but that's probably the one that definitely was blunt about feeling in the dark and concerned about a loss of control. He would have swerved it and left nothing to go on else.

Yeah I understand it from his point of view however managers are medium to short term things where as we are desperately in need of a long term strategy. 

 

What is the philosophy of the club? What is our DNA? We've got so many things to do which don't even appear to be on the agenda. 

[KaKa]

44 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Who let him build this lopsided and ageing squad? Like I’ve said it’s the previous regimes fault for over indulging Eddie.  They are the business and numbers ppl who are responsible for the club in the medium and long term.  They shouldn’t have spent so much money on the players that they did.  Should’ve let players go earlier.  
 

Eddie is largely making the same mistakes he’s always made.  With the squad getting stale and the atmosphere changing the results are worse. 

 

Yes, they did let him and they've all gone.

 

It was still Howe's decisions though, and so if things continue to go badly he will ultimately pay the price, especially if there is resistance to the changes the new DOF is trying to make.

[Kanj]

Same after the last loss, I’m quite chill about all of this and back him and the club to make correct decisions in January to make a push second half of the season. If they don’t, all involved will need to answer for it. 
 

Again, a lot of the player’s he’s trusted to execute simple instructions are failing him. Errant back passes, not tracking a runner, needless fouls in dangerous areas, missing headers etc. 

[hakka]

2 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

Yeah I understand it from his point of view however managers are medium to short term things where as we are desperately in need of a long term strategy. 

 

What is the philosophy of the club? What is our DNA? We've got so many things to do which don't even appear to be on the agenda. 

 

I think things have moved so quickly. Eddie's first job was keep us up, then it was have a good season after with more investment. That 4th season was amazing, but in terms of highering expectations it's really distorted last season and this one. Then PSR it self and it's troubles to us. It's a bit like the club has caught up in it's own success but the plan to be sustainable isn't clear. We seem to go down route of big statement signings, but think it's only off back of the selling youngsters to cover up the over spend have we now realised that blowing your window budget on one big signing is actually unsustainable as too many need replacing or competition for a spot. You have to have an excellent academy and scouting system to take pressure off putting all your eggs in one basket.

 

I thought we're heading that way under Ashworth, but with Mitchell's arrival it seems we are still working out what our longer term identity really is.

[The College Dropout]

42 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

I think this is the key to whether or not Howe deserves criticism.  Expecting CL qualification etc is unreasonable levels of expectations - that should be more hope than expectation.  Par based upon our squad (both talent and cost) should be around 7th.  8th-9th would be underperformance (in the same way anything above 7th is overperformance).  Form has us comfortably below par - performances as well as results.  That doesn't necessarily mean Howe should be sacked, nor that he can't turn it around.  But he isn't being criticised unreasonably at the moment, in the same way that the effusive praise in 22/23 was well-deserved.

 

We're still in both cups, and I want him to have the chance to break our duck, even if he isn't the long-term manager.  I really like him as a gadgie, and it would be great if he was the man to do it.  He'd forever be a legend here. But if we're out of both cups by the time the 4th round of the FA Cup concludes in late January and our league form hasn't improved drastically then for me he probably needs to go.

Think our squad cost or wages is 8th. 8th can’t be a underperformance.  It’s the top 6 and big gap to us and Villa. Then there’s a little drop to the others. 
 

IMO 7-9 is par.  10th and lower is hard to justify.  But poor transfer window and bad vibes is a clear contributor. 

[TheBrownBottle]

1 minute ago, The College Dropout said:

Think our squad cost or wages is 8th. 8th can’t be a underperformance.  It’s the top 6 and big gap to us and Villa. Then there’s a little drop to the others. 
 

IMO 7-9 is par.  10th and lower is hard to justify.  But poor transfer window and bad vibes is a clear contributor. 

Tbf TCD I'm not absolute on these things - it was more a general point.  I actually think that 6th-8th/9th is more like par, but this is 'angels dancing on the head of a pin' stuff.  Results aren't in that space, and performances are well below it.

[The College Dropout]

43 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

To be frank we need a manager who aligns with the overall vision, a lot of the issues we faced today are also relatable to the power struggle which occured over the summer. The strop thrown in Germany was quite eye opening and surprising. 

Agreed. 
 

Im more concerned about what that overall vision and strategy is.  What happens to Howe will naturally flow from that imo.  

36 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

Yeah I understand it from his point of view however managers are medium to short term things where as we are desperately in need of a long term strategy. 

 

What is the philosophy of the club? What is our DNA? We've got so many things to do which don't even appear to be on the agenda. 

Agree here again.  What is it we are trying to do and what is the plan to get there?

 

34 minutes ago, KaKa said:

 

Yes, they did let him and they've all gone.

 

It was still Howe's decisions though, and so if things continue to go badly he will ultimately pay the price, especially if there is resistance to the changes the new DOF is trying to make.

I’m not blaming Howe for the squad. That’s not his job.  He’s going to want to give himself the best shot at immediate results. 
 

Also if it was up to Howe we wouldn’t have Tino and Hall imo.  

[The College Dropout]

5 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Tbf TCD I'm not absolute on these things - it was more a general point.  I actually think that 6th-8th/9th is more like par, but this is 'angels dancing on the head of a pin' stuff.  Results aren't in that space, and performances are well below it.

Fairs. But we are only just short points wise. 
 

I guess my overall point is - I’m more concerned about Yassir, CEO and Mitchell than what Howe or the team does. It feels like misdirected energy.  June 25 to 1 Sep was a mess and stopped all opportunity to kick on imo.  This is a season to sort ourselves out.   The entire project has stalled and that’s being reflected on the pitch.  

 

 

Edited December 8 by The College Dropout

[SUPERTOON]

Just now, The College Dropout said:

Fairs. But we are only just short points wise. 
 

I guess my overall point is - I’m more concerned about Yassir, CEO and Mitchell than what Howe or the team does. It feels like misdirected energy.  June 25 to 1 Sep was a mess and stopped all opportunity to kick on imo.  This is a season to sort ourselves out.   

I agree regarding more concerned about the Saudis. Genuinely unsure what their actual plans are for us, fortunately any stadium news should let us all know.

[Andy]

To me, you don't necessarily have to judge on league position, unless the aim is very specific ie. must achieve European Football. I don't think that currently applies to us. Our par is probably 7th or 8th as others have said. I think we will fall short of that this year. 

 

I could accept us dropping off a bit if it looked like we were in transition and trying to actively change the things that weren't working, even if the alternative plans weren't working either or were taking time to kick in. 

 

My larger concern at the moment is that we aren't really trying anything different, it's the same formation and setup almost every week just with different players wearing the stripes. Sometimes we look more balanced, sometimes we look less balanced, but given that nothing seems to work consistently, the successes seem to be more down to how the opposition play against us, rather than anything we did. 

 

For the most part this season, we have looked like one of the easiest teams to play against in the league. And while the league position isn't the be-all and end-all, it does reflect that. 

[TRon]

33 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Agreed. 
 

Im more concerned about what that overall vision and strategy is.  What happens to Howe will naturally flow from that imo.  

Agree here again.  What is it we are trying to do and what is the plan to get there?

 

I’m not blaming Howe for the squad. That’s not his job.  He’s going to want to give himself the best shot at immediate results. 
 

Also if it was up to Howe we wouldn’t have Tino and Hall imo.  

 

It was his job though, he was very much controlling who came in and out under Staveley. That's partly the reason she has left as far as I can read it, we have held onto ageing players, giving out new contracts to many of them, then ended up selling younger talents to satisfy PSR. Ashworth said something about having less say on transfers than he expected, and Mitchell said that this summer was also going after signings that had already been identified by the previous set up.

 

From this January onwards you would expect Mitchell to take charge and Howe to be more accommodating of players coming and going.

[The College Dropout]

42 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

It was his job though, he was very much controlling who came in and out under Staveley. That's partly the reason she has left as far as I can read it, we have held onto ageing players, giving out new contracts to many of them, then ended up selling younger talents to satisfy PSR. Ashworth said something about having less say on transfers than he expected, and Mitchell said that this summer was also going after signings that had already been identified by the previous set up.

 

From this January onwards you would expect Mitchell to take charge and Howe to be more accommodating of players coming and going.

If I’m a Manager at work and my influence is where I’m making decisions above my grade - that’s the fault of the people above me. 
 

Those people have left the club. And Howe has been refocused on the first team like he should’ve been at the first instance. 
 

If he doesn’t like it he should and will leave.  
 

I said it at the time - was never sure about giving Joelinton the super max. I sided with Ashworth when that news came out. 

[Gallowgate Toon]

Howe has evidently made mistakes this season, some big & very irritating, but the drop in general standards points to something deeper imo.

 

The club has stated its #1 aim but it feels to me that we have very little idea about how to get there, and the man we brought in to help shape/evolve that has gotten off to about as bad a start as you can get. Whether he was right or wrong, Mitchell talking to the press about players being overpaid for was fucking stupid. Even worse, I'm not sure the hierarchy have any further answers other than Mitchell + maybe a new stadium?

 

There are legitimate complaints about tactics & selections, but we aren't doing the basics consistently well which to me suggests we are currently driven more by individual motivation rather than team motivation - we used to be exceptional at the gritty stuff, a cause worth sacrificing yourself for. We look tired, we have players who look like they know they have a public price and/or that their time with us will soon be up. We have the feel of a squad that knows its reward for doing well is likely going to mean losing a key player(s) anyway without confidence in the man in charge of replacing them.

 

It basically feels like we're not really working towards anything right now, proper rudderless, going-through-the-motions stuff. Another chance at cup glory (ha!) may offer something different...

 

Changing manager could see an upturn in results short-term, but we'd still be left with the some big problems that'd soon rear their head again imo, and we'd have lost a fantastic ambassador for the club along the way.

 

The club's leadership over the last 18 months has been very poor and, worryingly, has gotten worse over that period. They're lucky fans haven't started kicking up more of a fuss, and they're even luckier that Howe has largely spearheaded the public-facing stuff admirably in the face of plenty of adversity.

[The College Dropout]

Eloquently summed up my thoughts @Gallowgate Toon

 

 

[Terrymac1966]

Why is Mitchell getting shit?

[nufcjmc]

1 minute ago, Terrymac1966 said:

Why is Mitchell getting shit?

Lack of action from Mitchell in the summer in either backing the old plan or not coming up with a good alternative and stamping his authority to enforce a new way/direction. 

 

The comments brought up by him privately speaking to the journos after the summer that recruitment so far has not been fit for purpose. Something brought back to the attention of howe recently who just said he didn't know what he meant by that as he likes who we signed. 

[TRon]

4 minutes ago, Terrymac1966 said:

Why is Mitchell getting shit?

 

People are arguing that Eddie wasn't backed enough/was backed too readily.

[Ronaldo]

39 minutes ago, Gallowgate Toon said:

Howe has evidently made mistakes this season, some big & very irritating, but the drop in general standards points to something deeper imo.

 

The club has stated its #1 aim but it feels to me that we have very little idea about how to get there, and the man we brought in to help shape/evolve that has gotten off to about as bad a start as you can get. Whether he was right or wrong, Mitchell talking to the press about players being overpaid for was fucking stupid. Even worse, I'm not sure the hierarchy have any further answers other than Mitchell + maybe a new stadium?

 

There are legitimate complaints about tactics & selections, but we aren't doing the basics consistently well which to me suggests we are currently driven more by individual motivation rather than team motivation - we used to be exceptional at the gritty stuff, a cause worth sacrificing yourself for. We look tired, we have players who look like they know they have a public price and/or that their time with us will soon be up. We have the feel of a squad that knows its reward for doing well is likely going to mean losing a key player(s) anyway without confidence in the man in charge of replacing them.

 

It basically feels like we're not really working towards anything right now, proper rudderless, going-through-the-motions stuff. Another chance at cup glory (ha!) may offer something different...

 

Changing manager could see an upturn in results short-term, but we'd still be left with the some big problems that'd soon rear their head again imo, and we'd have lost a fantastic ambassador for the club along the way.

 

The club's leadership over the last 18 months has been very poor and, worryingly, has gotten worse over that period. They're lucky fans haven't started kicking up more of a fuss, and they're even luckier that Howe has largely spearheaded the public-facing stuff admirably in the face of plenty of adversity.

Good post. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

2 minutes ago, nufcjmc said:

Lack of action from Mitchell in the summer in either backing the old plan or not coming up with a good alternative and stamping his authority to enforce a new way/direction. 

 

The comments brought up by him privately speaking to the journos after the summer that recruitment so far has not been fit for purpose. Something brought back to the attention of howe recently who just said he didn't know what he meant by that as he likes who we signed. 

It’s too early in Michell’s work with us to say anything about how he’s done IMO. The timing of his arrival was unfortunate but he still had the chance to make us a much better club. 

[nufcjmc]

I still want to have hope it somehow clicks 

 

Upturn in performances 

 

Mitchell shrewd business  in the winter window getting a new spark/freshness

 

Stadium plans

 

Maybe God forbid some new sponsors announced 

 

Cup run 

 

However most of it is on Howes first two seasons which due to a whole host of reasons he may never get back to. 

 

How much of this season do you write off to find out is anyone's guess if there was a good standout available candidate maybe it would be an easier choice. 

[TRon]

2 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

It’s too early in Michell’s work with us to say anything about how he’s done IMO. The timing of his arrival was unfortunate but he still had the chance to make us a much better club. 

 

He still HAS the chance tbf. Assuming his reputation wasn't built on Ashworth levels of smoke and mirrors.

[nufcjmc]

2 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

It’s too early in Michell’s work with us to say anything about how he’s done IMO. The timing of his arrival was unfortunate but he still had the chance to make us a much better club. 

I assume it was either an ultimatum from Howe about being backed or a lack of will to make the changes needed as it was bad timing appointment wise with the transfer window. 

 

As you said hard to judge too much at this point but as I say he can't be blameless for the summer he chose to go along with plan "A"