Eddie Howe

[Kid Icarus]

Whatever we got for Trippier vs what he gave us doesn't seem like worth worrying about, no? 

 

We signed him for 12m, what were Bayern offering again? About the same? I back keeping him in that situation and you could argue that he paid it back for his cup final performance alone, but that aside I'm not sure worrying about fees that low is worth it anyway.

[The Prophet]

I agree with the general point that we haven't always sold as well as we could have.

 

That offer for Tripper came when we had circa 14 fit players though. Totally understand why we knocked it back.

[HaydnNUFC]

13 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

Both absolutely fucking mint in the cup final, if that means anything at all. We also got cash for Miggy, so who cares.

 

Going to be similarly obtuse and reductive here and say the club can't afford to be sentimental/emotional and hamstring themselves with players due to performances in one game. Joelinton's injury record under Howe is 3rd to Wilson and Botman for days/games missed and his technical ability leaves a lot to be desired. Trippier still being here and leaving for nothing in addition to the noises about Tino and Krafth likely being away means we'll likely have to sign 4 full backs in the summer, a window which should be bringing about major changes to the squad in other positions.

 

We could've gotten more than double what we got for Almiron if he was sold earlier. May have helped in the PSR situation a bit in summer 2024.

 

6 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

Whatever we got for Trippier vs what he gave us doesn't seem like worth worrying about, no? 

 

We signed him for 12m, what were Bayern offering again? About the same? I back keeping him in that situation and you could argue that he paid it back for his cup final performance alone, but that aside I'm not sure worrying about fees that low is worth it anyway.

 

It's not about the fee with Trippier, it's more the full back situation we are very likely to have as outlined above and earlier.

 

 

Edited April 11 by HaydnNUFC

[Kid Icarus]

1 minute ago, HaydnNUFC said:

 

Going to be similarly obtuse here and say the club can't afford to be sentimental/emotional and hamstring themselves with players due to performances in one game. Joelinton's injury record under Howe is 3rd to Wilson and Botman for days/games missed and his technical ability leaves a lot to be desired. Trippier still being here and leaving for nothing in addition to the noises about Tino and Krafth likely being away means we'll likely have to sign 4 full backs in the summer, a window which should be bringing about major changes to the squad in other positions.

 

We could've gotten more than double what we got for Almiron if he was sold earlier. May have helped in the PSR situation a bit in summer 2024.

 

 

It's not about the fee with Trippier, it's more the full back situation we are very likely to have as outlined above and earlier.

 

Also not a situation that would have been a given with Livramento at the time (or even now) tbf.

 

Every decision and non-decision will have side-effects wont it. If we'd sold him, would we be sitting here bemoaning the impact of that decision? I think what we got out of Trippier in the meantime (particularly the cup final), you take what we got as a very likely net win. 

[HaydnNUFC]

9 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

 

Also not a situation that would have been a given with Livramento at the time (or even now) tbf.

 

Every decision and non-decision will have side-effects wont it. If we'd sold him, would we be sitting here bemoaning the impact of that decision? I think what we got out of Trippier in the meantime (particularly the cup final), you take what we got as a very likely net win. 

 

Of course it was a net win, he'll go down as the best RB to play for the club in the PL era certainly. But it's more the overriding point rather than getting into the nuances of each individual player: we've been poor sellers and have held onto players too long when we could've had decent fees at the right times, replacing them with younger profiles with higher ceilings. The only time we've been proactive with an outgoing in this regard was the sale of Wood to Forest. Hopkinson has mentioned us becoming a 'trading' club, which he'll have to overhaul as it is something we haven't done well at all post takeover.

 

 

Edited April 11 by HaydnNUFC

[McDog]

1 minute ago, HaydnNUFC said:

 

Of course it was a net win, he'll go down as the best RB to play for the club in the PL era certainly. But it's more the overriding point rather than getting into the nuances of each individual player: we've been poor sellers and have held onto players too long when we could've had decent fees at the right times, replacing them with younger profiles with higher ceilings. The only time we've been proactive with an outgoing in this regard was the sale of Wood to Forest. Hopkinson has mentioned us becoming a 'trading' club, which he'll have to overhaul as it is something we haven't done well at all post takeover.

 

 

 

 

 

Tbf though, if almost all your wares are shit then how do you become a good seller? I guess I am mainly referring to the two years or so post takeover but to say the cupboard was bare is a gross understatement. That said, it's much more stocked now which makes for an interesting potential summer.

[Kid Icarus]

5 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

 

Of course it was a net win, he'll go down as the best RB to play for the club in the PL era certainly. But it's more the overriding point rather than getting into the nuances of each individual player: we've been poor sellers and have held onto players too long when we could've had decent fees at the right times, replacing them with younger profiles with higher ceilings. The only time we've been proactive with an outgoing in this regard was the sale of Wood to Forest. Hopkinson has mentioned us being a 'trading' club, which is something we haven't done well at all post takeover.

I'll try to ask this without sounding like an antagonistic cunt , but if that's the overriding point...why cite Trippier and Joelinton?

 

Is it a case that we should be such a slick operation that we should have cashed in on them and had better players lined up?

 

Or is it just two examples off the top of your head and there are others you could have chosen? (I think I'd have chosen Wilson personally)

 

 

Edited April 11 by Kid Icarus

[HaydnNUFC]

5 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said:

I'll try to ask this without sounding like an antagonistic cunt , but if that's the overriding point...why cite Trippier and Joelinton?

 

Is it a case that we should be such a slick operation that we should have cashed in on them and had better players lined up?

 

Or is it just two examples off the tip of your head and there are others you could have chosen? (I think I'd have chosen Wilson personally)

 

Yes to both questions tbh.

 

I also cited Wilson and Almiron on the previous page, I was just replying to Yorkie who picked out Trippier/Joelinton.

 

And it is more Wilson and Almiron when I talk about this, Joelinton is my own personal opinion as I've thought (and posted on here early last season) that I think he should've been sold in summer 2024 instead of being given a new contract which saw him apparently on more money than Isak. Trippier is much more nuanced, but it's just the full back situation which could well happen this summer which has been an effect of him not being moved on earlier and another RB brought in earlier. It also may not happen. But I'd say it's quite likely it's the former.

 

 

Edited April 11 by HaydnNUFC

[Kid Icarus]

15 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

 

Yes to both questions tbh.

 

I also cited Wilson and Almiron on the previous page, I was just replying to Yorkie who picked out Trippier/Joelinton.

 

And it is more Wilson and Almiron when I talk about this, Joelinton is my own personal opinion as I've thought (and posted on here early last season) that I think he should've been sold in summer 2024 instead of being given a new contract which saw him apparently on more money than Isak. Trippier is much more nuanced, but it's just the full back situation which could well happen this summer which has been an effect of him not being moved on earlier and another RB brought in earlier. It also may not happen. But I'd say it's quite likely it's the former.

 

 

 

We got £20m for Almiron didn't we?

 

Wilson is the one where the point stands definitely. Can understand the reluctance mind, what a striker he was, but yeah we needed to bite the bullet there, or buy better than Osula beforehand. 

[HaydnNUFC]

1 minute ago, Kid Icarus said:

We got £20m for Almiron didn't we?

 

Wilson is the one where the point stands definitely. Can understand the reluctance mind, what a striker he was, but yeah we needed to bite the bullet there, or buy better than Osula beforehand. 

 

£8m, apparently.

 

We could've gotten 20m+ if he was sold in summer 2023 along with Wilson imo.

[Kid Icarus]

15 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said:

 

£8m, apparently.

 

We could've gotten 20m+ if he was sold in summer 2023 along with Wilson imo.

£8m

 

 

[TBG]

Just seen the Champo table. 

 

Worth a punt on Frank Lampard? Seems like a good upcoming manager.

[Yorkie]

3 hours ago, HaydnNUFC said:

3 hours ago, Yorkie said:

 

Both absolutely fucking mint in the cup final, if that means anything at all. We also got cash for Miggy, so who cares.

 

Going to be similarly obtuse and reductive here and say the club can't afford to be sentimental/emotional and hamstring themselves with players due to performances in one game

 

It's not reductive at all, man. You said those players should've been peddled, and in not doing so it was 'poor squad management,' when clearly it wasn't, given last season's output and their specific contribution to it. KI has already said it, but we've squeezed every last drop out of Trippier in terms of value; it outweighs any negative from getting no fee.

 

Just to be on brand for me: it's all from the school of unfair criticism given the real enemy here is PSR. Even if it was poor squad management, it's only poor in the context of these bullshit rules. A team like us - clawing desperately to catch up - can't afford to sell dependable stalwarts like Joelinton. Man Utd are allowed to run Casemiro's contract down without it impacting their ability to massively invest... but if we don't sell Big Jer we're doing a bad job? That doesn't sit right with me at all.

 

If there's any mud to sling about our lack of revenue from sales it should be pointed at the fact our academy generates next to fuck all.

[TheBrownBottle]

15 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

It's not reductive at all, man. You said those players should've been peddled, and in not doing so it was 'poor squad management,' when clearly it wasn't, given last season's output and their specific contribution to it. KI has already said it, but we've squeezed every last drop out of Trippier in terms of value; it outweighs any negative from getting no fee.

 

Just to be on brand for me: it's all from the school of unfair criticism given the real enemy here is PSR. Even if it was poor squad management, it's only poor in the context of these bullshit rules. A team like us - clawing desperately to catch up - can't afford to sell dependable stalwarts like Joelinton. Man Utd are allowed to run Casemiro's contract down without it impacting their ability to massively invest... but if we don't sell Big Jer we're doing a bad job? That doesn't sit right with me at all.

 

If there's any mud to sling about our lack of revenue from sales it should be pointed at the fact our academy generates next to fuck all.

Just a general point on PSR - yes, it’s a bag of shite, and it was adjusted in 2021 to target us.  But it can’t be used as an excuse for poor squad management / signings - it’s been in place from before the first transfer window which opened post-takeover.  Unless of course PIF, PC, RB, both the directors of football and Howe are ignorant and were completely unaware of what the rules meant for transfer budgets etc.  It being ‘poor in context’ - what other context is there?  The rules were in place since day dot.  In a parallel universe where those rules aren’t there, then sure - but that’s dealing in counterfactuals. 

[Yorkie]

1 hour ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Just a general point on PSR - yes, it’s a bag of shite, and it was adjusted in 2021 to target us.  But it can’t be used as an excuse for poor squad management / signings - it’s been in place from before the first transfer window which opened post-takeover.  Unless of course PIF, PC, RB, both the directors of football and Howe are ignorant and were completely unaware of what the rules meant for transfer budgets etc.  It being ‘poor in context’ - what other context is there?  The rules were in place since day dot.  In a parallel universe where those rules aren’t there, then sure - but that’s dealing in counterfactuals. 

 

I disagree but I'm not going to bore everyone again with the reasons why. 

 

In the context of this debate specifically I'm contesting the suggestion that not selling these players is poor squad management.

[PauloGeordio]

 

"We have to earn back the trust, respect, and love of our supporters. Play with real pride and show how much the shirt and the club means to us all. That is No. 1 for me."

 

 

Edited April 12 by PauloGeordio

[TheBrownBottle]

47 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

I disagree but I'm not going to bore everyone again with the reasons why. 

 

In the context of this debate specifically I'm contesting the suggestion that not selling these players is poor squad management.

Fair enough - I’ll add only one thing; the noises coming from the club recently are pretty positive IMO - it sounds like lessons have been learned, and a strategy more in keeping with reality will guide how the summer goes.  

[gjohnson]

2 hours ago, TBG said:

Just seen the Champo table. 

 

Worth a punt on Frank Lampard? Seems like a good upcoming manager.

Get knotted...he's a total pfm

[Ben]

6 hours ago, TBG said:

Just seen the Champo table. 

 

Worth a punt on Frank Lampard? Seems like a good upcoming manager.

 

Howe would won that league with Sheff Wed.

[Heron]

4 hours ago, PauloGeordio said:

 

"We have to earn back the trust, respect, and love of our supporters. Play with real pride and show how much the shirt and the club means to us all. That is No. 1 for me."

 

 

 

In Eddie I Trust.

[Ikon]

TBG. Some never learn despite all this time…  His relentless is quite impressive. 

 

 

Edited April 12 by Ikon

[Heron]

Obvious statement I guess but I'm desperate for Eddie to prove the naysayers wrong. I am of the view folk are scapegoating him and looking for the perceived easiest solution rather than the right one and also of the view that little old S*nderland from down the road who we weren't bothered about have ruffled more feathers than we like to admit.

 

We've always come out stronger being united in adversity and many same to fail to realise that. You don't become a bad manager overnight as many seem to suggest.

[Ben]

Any time Howe has had an extended spell on the training pitch we always improve

[NUFC91]

35 minutes ago, Heron said:

Obvious statement I guess but I'm desperate for Eddie to prove the naysayers wrong. I am of the view folk are scapegoating him and looking for the perceived easiest solution rather than the right one and also of the view that little old S*nderland from down the road who we weren't bothered about have ruffled more feathers than we like to admit.

 

We've always come out stronger being united in adversity and many same to fail to realise that. You don't become a bad manager overnight as many seem to suggest.

 

We absolutely need to get behind the Manager and team until the end of the season but I disagree on the Sunderland point, it should ruffle our feathers in my opinion.

 

That performance should of been one the players were bang up for particularly after the performance at their place and conceding 7 the game before. The effort between their players and ours were night and day, maybe I think too emotionally but I can't accept less than 110% effort in a derby its not good enough, and in that fixture whether we like to admit it or not tactically their manager out done us and made positive changes at half time whilst we did'nt and let them get a foothold in midfield.

 

I really do think today we need to see a performance today of intent and effort after our last showing. As ever EH BNW army!

 

 

Edited April 12 by NUFC91

[Heron]

13 minutes ago, NUFC91 said:

 

We absolutely need to get behind the Manager and team until the end of the season but I disagree on the Sunderland point, it should ruffle our feathers in my opinion.

 

That performance should of been one the players were bang up for particularly after the performance at their place and conceding 7 the game before. The effort between their players and ours were night and day, maybe I think too emotionally but I can't accept less than 110% effort in a derby its not good enough, and in that fixture whether we like to admit it or not tactically their manager out done us and made positive changes at half time whilst we did'nt and let them get a foothold in midfield.

 

I really do think today we need to see a performance today of intent and effort after our last showing. As ever EH BNW army!

 

 

 

I agree on your points but what I'm getting at regarding S*nderland is that prior to that game it was met with an attitude that it wasn't the be all end all like it would be for them. A "we are their everything" kind of attitude and now many are displaying the same attitudes that they'd criticise the mackems of. If that fixture wasn't the be all end all we wouldn't be coming out with the remarks we are as a fan base on social media in my opinion. It'd be just a frustrating loss to another mid table side as has been the case for the last couple of years. So we either accept that fixture means a great deal to us and stop making those claims or we continue those claims and not want whole-scale change when we absolutely fail in those ties as we have this season.

 

We can all see and admit performances haven't been as good this year, results by and large haven't been, but to isolate Howe as the issue as others (not your good self) are is simply trying to find a quick solution rather than the right solution, in my opinion, of course.

 

 

Edited April 12 by Heron