Eddie Howe

[Cf]

35 minutes ago, thomas said:

I love him dearly and he’s really good but if Eddie is considered world class then the label has lost all meaning. 
 

 

 

I mean the only manager who I'd give that label to is Guardiola. And I still look at what Howe managed to achieve in saving us and getting us to 4th the following season. Would Guardiola have managed it? I don't think it's nailed on he would.

 

Don't get me wrong I'm not downplaying managers of his calibre. And you wouldn't trust just anyone to do the job at the level he's doing but there's a certain amount of they're getting to play at the big boys table which naturally puts a shine on them.

[Matt1892]

1 minute ago, The College Dropout said:

And Forest sold Brennan their crown jewel. And will probably need to sell MGW next season.

 

You don't get serious money for Almiron or Murphy to help out with FFP significantly. You sell one to clear a squad place.

 

At the start of last season - I don't think we get a fee for either Murphy or Almiron. Given their ages and wages - you don't get much over £10m either unless Forest come calling.

I thought it was clear that I meant that you would sell one or the other for a squad place when I said that you wouldn’t buy another and keep both. Realistically we could have got £30 million for Almiron last summer from Saudi after the season he had which could have gone towards buying an improved first team player to help take us to the next level.

[hakka]

Just now, Matt1892 said:

I thought it was clear that I meant that you would sell one or the other for a squad place when I said that you wouldn’t buy another and keep both. Realistically we could have got £30 million for Almiron last summer from Saudi after the season he had which could have gone towards buying an improved first team player to help take us to the next level.

 

But they didn't come bidding so its moot.

[The College Dropout]

4 minutes ago, Matt1892 said:

I thought it was clear that I meant that you would sell one or the other for a squad place when I said that you wouldn’t buy another and keep both. Realistically we could have got £30 million for Almiron last summer from Saudi after the season he had which could have gone towards buying an improved first team player to help take us to the next level.

£30m to Saudi for Almiron is not passing the fair value metrics from the PL. 

 

We got less for someone who was considered our star player for 3 seasons.  Like these things do matter in the real world. 

 

 

 

Edited January 3 by The College Dropout

[Matt1892]

Just now, hakka said:

 

But they didn't come bidding so it’s a moot.

Do you think Al-Ahli came bidding for ASM or do you think it was orchestrated?

[Matt1892]

Just now, The College Dropout said:

£30m to Saudi for Almiron is not passing the fair value metrics from the PL. 

 

 

His value was higher than ASM’s back in the summer so I don’t see there being any issue at all.

[The Prophet]

@TBG Last paragraph, it's finally getting traction...

 

[The College Dropout]

4 minutes ago, Matt1892 said:

His value was higher than ASM’s back in the summer so I don’t see there being any issue at all.

I don’t agree. People in football are stupid but not that stupid. 

4 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

@TBG Last paragraph, it's finally getting traction...

 

This is funny. 

[Kanji]

Need to sell Almiron before Murphy imho. Minteh will be with us next season. Need then decide if selling Murphy and buying a top class RW is the way to go or if we’re going to loan out Minteh one more time, which means you keep the Murph…unless he is more than keen to stay on. I like him as he’s versatile as all hell, direct, pacy, strong, can do set pieces and very smart in the press. 

[The College Dropout]

17 minutes ago, Cf said:

 

I mean the only manager who I'd give that label to is Guardiola. And I still look at what Howe managed to achieve in saving us and getting us to 4th the following season. Would Guardiola have managed it? I don't think it's nailed on he would.

 

Don't get me wrong I'm not downplaying managers of his calibre. And you wouldn't trust just anyone to do the job at the level he's doing but there's a certain amount of they're getting to play at the big boys table which naturally puts a shine on them.

You don't think Ancelotti, Klopp, Tuchel, Conte, Simeone - managers that have won multiple league titles and other Cups aren't world class?

 

Below that you have your De Zerbi's, Xabi Alonso's who seem destined to get an opportunity at one of the mega clubs sooner or later. Alonso might even do the Rafa, Mourinho, Simeone & Klopp thing of winning major titles against the establishment.

[Kanji]

1 minute ago, The College Dropout said:

You don't think Ancelotti, Klopp, Tuchel, Conte, Simeone - managers that have won multiple league titles and other Cups aren't world class?

 

Below that you have your De Zerbi's, Xabi Alonso's who seem destined to get an opportunity at one of the mega clubs sooner or later. Alonso might even do the Rafa, Mourinho, Simeone & Klopp thing of winning major titles against the establishment.

Eden Terzíc of Dortmund deserves to be in that De Zerbi and Xabi Alonso grouping imho. Absolutely brilliant manager. 

[Matt1892]

3 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

I don’t agree. People in football are stupid but not that stupid. 

This is funny. 

It is about opinions but I don’t think the club would have too much trouble painting a picture that a winger in his late 20’s who got in to double figures for a team that qualified for the Champions League would be overpriced at £30 million.

[hakka]

19 minutes ago, Matt1892 said:

Do you think Al-Ahli came bidding for ASM or do you think it was orchestrated?

 

I have no idea, and neither do you. Let's stick to what happened, which is nobody bidded £30m Almiron.

 

 

Edited January 3 by hakka

[The College Dropout]

I've been one of Almiron's biggest critics but I don't think there's enough value in selling him. (1) I think we would struggle for a buyer over £10m. I think we could just about justify £10m from Saudi. He doesn't have the track record of Chris Wood nor is there another Forest around. Financially there's just not much to gain. (2) I think whoever replaces him, needs to watch him play the role as a Newcastle player. Just to learn what he should aim for off the ball.

 

We could have a new signing, Almiron & Minteh in the squad. I believe Minteh won't need to be registered anyway. With 2 senior players ahead of him, we can introduce him gently without masses of pressure for a season.

[Cf]

5 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

You don't think Ancelotti, Klopp, Tuchel, Conte, Simeone - managers that have won multiple league titles and other Cups aren't world class?

 

Below that you have your De Zerbi's, Xabi Alonso's who seem destined to get an opportunity at one of the mega clubs sooner or later. Alonso might even do the Rafa, Mourinho, Simeone & Klopp thing of winning major titles against the establishment.

 

Yeah you can probably throw them in too. But then take a look at Conte he hardly set the world on fire at Spurs recently when he didn't have the elite squad. 

 

Not trying to pick a fight I just don't find people saying "Eddie howe isn't elite because he's not won anything" very helpful because I think it's more nuanced than that. 

 

If Howe isn't world class like everyone else in that list would we therefore have expected all of them to achieve what Howe did in his first two seasons? I'm not sure I would. 

[Matt1892]

1 minute ago, hakka said:

 

I have no idea, and neither do you. Let's stick to what happened, which is nobody bidded £30m Almiron.

 

 

 

There is a reason why clubs raised concerns with the FA about the transfer, as it was possible that it could happen and why no other club was interested in ASM.

 

Just because this doesn’t fit in with your narrative doesn’t mean you can just shut the conversation down. If you don’t like it then don’t reply.

[Collage]

22 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

@TBG Last paragraph, it's finally getting traction...

 

Is he suggesting that we signed Milan and Champions League player Sandro Tonali believing he’s a ”sitting 6” and then went ”oops” when he turned out to be something else? That’s almost as funny as the last paragraph.

 

 

Edited January 3 by Collage

[Matt1892]

4 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

I've been one of Almiron's biggest critics but I don't think there's enough value in selling him. (1) I think we would struggle for a buyer over £10m. I think we could just about justify £10m from Saudi. He doesn't have the track record of Chris Wood nor is there another Forest around. Financially there's just not much to gain. (2) I think whoever replaces him, needs to watch him play the role as a Newcastle player. Just to learn what he should aim for off the ball.

 

We could have a new signing, Almiron & Minteh in the squad. I believe Minteh won't need to be registered anyway. With 2 senior players ahead of him, we can introduce him gently without masses of pressure for a season.

There is a big difference between selling him now than in the summer though, hence why we have missed the boat.

[GEFAFWISP]

Clueless conspiracy nonce at it again. Hi Craig 👋 

[The College Dropout]

Just now, Cf said:

 

Yeah you can probably throw them in too. But then take a look at Conte he hardly set the world on fire at Spurs recently when he didn't have the elite squad. 

 

Not trying to pick a fight I just don't find people saying "Eddie howe isn't elite because he's not won anything" very helpful because I think it's more nuanced than that. 

 

If Howe isn't world class like everyone else in that list would we therefore have expected all of them to achieve what Howe did in his first two seasons? I'm not sure I would. 

Conte has also won league titles with 3 different clubs relatively recently. Even at Spurs, he qualified for CL when most thought he couldn't. And the form over his first 12 months was excellent. When he realised they couldn't win the league - he tried to get himself fired.

 

I don't think Pep Guardiola could get as many promotions into the PL as Steve Bruce. Genuinely I don't. That's a national job for a national-level manager. You judge elite performances, at the elite level IMO. I agree - most of them couldn't do what Eddie has done for us. But you become world-class at a world-class level, not the level below IMO.

[Cf]

1 minute ago, The College Dropout said:

Conte has also won league titles with 3 different clubs relatively recently. Even at Spurs, he qualified for CL when most thought he couldn't. And the form over his first 12 months was excellent. When he realised they couldn't win the league - he tried to get himself fired.

 

I don't think Pep Guardiola could get as many promotions into the PL as Steve Bruce. Genuinely I don't. That's a national job for a national-level manager. You judge elite performances, at the elite level IMO. I agree - most of them couldn't do what Eddie has done for us. But you become world-class at a world-class level, not the level below IMO.

 

Yeah that's fair. But I can't help but feel there's a certain element of it's not hard to be world class at a world class club. You can obviously fail at that level. But at the same time I suspect there's plenty of managers who'd be just as good as the ones you mention if given a chance.

 

Eddie will get his chance here over the next few years if appropriately supported.

[hakka]

4 minutes ago, Matt1892 said:

There is a reason why clubs raised concerns with the FA about the transfer, as it was possible that it could happen and why no other club was interested in ASM.

 

Just because this doesn’t fit in with your narrative doesn’t mean you can just shut the conversation down. If you don’t like it then don’t reply.

 

I just want to deal in reality and facts my friend. I could sit here telling you about how if PSG could have bought Wilson for £50m and how we could have used that in some clever FFP manner, but they didn't happen, so it's all a bit silly. We have no idea at the extent of whether our owners forced ASM sale or not, or whether they were stupid not to buy Almiron or any of our deadwood in fact for a handsome fee we wouldn't normally get, but it never happened so it can't form a key part of a debate that we should of used money from a sale that wasn't on the cards.

 

[Matt1892]

Just now, hakka said:

 

I just want to deal in reality and facts my friend. I could sit here telling you about how if PSG could have bought Wilson for £50m and how we could have used that in some clever FFP manner, but they didn't happen, so it's all a bit silly. We have no idea at the extent of whether our owners forced ASM sale or not, or whether they were stupid not to buy Almiron or any of our deadwood in fact for a handsome fee we wouldn't normally get, but it never happened so it can't form a key part of a debate that we should of used money from a sale that wasn't on the cards.

 

PSG are not owned by the same owners as we are though so it isn’t a comparable situation, which you already know.

 

Again, there is a reason clubs were complaining to the FA about us regarding the ASM deal as reported in the Athletic, as there is a clear conflict and the ability to manipulate transfers.

[hakka]

Just now, Matt1892 said:

PSG are not owned by the same owners as we are though so it isn’t a comparable situation, which you already know.

 

Again, there is a reason clubs were complaining to the FA about us regarding the ASM deal as reported in the Athletic, as there is a clear conflict and the ability to manipulate transfers.

 

They are both situations that never happened, hence why I see equivolance and pointlessness in using them to discuss possible FFP stuff.

 

I get you fully believe the ASM sale was dodgy and our owners dictating one club over there buy our player to help us, but I don't believe that is the case. Nor do I perceive it as a mistake or even an option by our owners to force a Saudi club to buy Almiron in the way you described for our FFP benefit.

[Matt1892]

11 minutes ago, hakka said:

 

They are both situations that never happened, hence why I see equivolance and pointlessness in using them to discuss possible FFP stuff.

 

I get you fully believe the ASM sale was dodgy and our owners dictating one club over there buy our player to help us, but I don't believe that is the case. Nor do I perceive it as a mistake or even an option by our owners to force a Saudi club to buy Almiron in the way you described for our FFP benefit.

One is a situation that could potentially happen which is why other clubs complained to the FA about it, whereas the other could potentially happen but would be no cause for complaint as neither party is linked.

 

The same way that a vote was held to try and stop clubs loaning players in from other clubs with the same owner, it is seen as an advantage and something that could be done.

 

We don’t know if either will happen or not but it isn’t beyond belief that it could happen, that isn’t just me believing it but other clubs too, hence why complaints and a vote took place.