Eddie Howe

[alexf]

Props for the result and for trying something different to unlock Bruno higher up the pitch. 

 

However I really don't think the result should justify the team selection.

 

I believe that should have been far more comfortable than it was. 

 

It needs to be flipped. Tino should be starting games and Burn on at the end if we need to sit deeper and see out some pressure. 

 

Also we complain we had no subs before and players getting run into the ground but then we run Wilson and/Gordon till the end when Gordon looked done for a lot sooner. 

 

 

Edited February 10 by alexf

[Chris_R]

1 minute ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

And also, it’s just one individual selection so is quite a small factor in our results. 

 

It really isn't, when he's so fundamental to us conceding so many goals and chances, and us having no option down the left flank because he's such a slow, limited footballer.

 

It's like if you put an actual dwarf in goal, you couldn't say "it's just one individual selection, so quite a small factor in our results" when teams would mercilessly exploit that game after game.

[LionOfGosforth]

3 minutes ago, Chris_R said:

 

It really isn't, when he's so fundamental to us conceding so many goals and chances, and us having no option down the left flank because he's such a slow, limited footballer.

 

It's like if you put an actual dwarf in goal, you couldn't say "it's just one individual selection, so quite a small factor in our results" when teams would mercilessly exploit that game after game.

 

Do you really think our best manager in 20 years, who took us from rock bottom to 4th in 18 months, sits and analyzes recent games and says to himself "Ya know what, Burn's struggling, we're gonna keep conceding with him at LB, plus we're playing Forest this week and they have a pacy bloke at RW. Burn will again struggle, so I think I quite like the sound of that and i'm going to keep him in so that I can fulfill all of the negative prophecies on Newcastle-Online"?

 

At this point it probably should occur to you (and the others questioning the sanity of this), that there are a myriad of reasons why Burn is playing, why Tino doesn't just come in. And none of those reasons will include enjoying seeing our left side get roasted and conceding goals because of it.

[Izakaya]

2 minutes ago, LionOfGosforth said:

 

Do you really think our best manager in 20 years, who took us from rock bottom to 4th in 18 months, sits and analyzes recent games and says to himself "Ya know what, Burn's struggling, we're gonna keep conceding with him at LB, plus we're playing Forest this week and they have a pacy bloke at RW. Burn will again struggle, so I think I quite like the sound of that and i'm going to keep him in so that I can fulfill all of the negative prophecies on Newcastle-Online"?

 

At this point it probably should occur to you (and the others questioning the sanity of this), that there are a myriad of reasons why Burn is playing, why Tino doesn't just come in. And none of those reasons will include enjoying seeing our left side get roasted and conceding goals because of it.

Mind sharing some of those reasons? Cos it seems no one else can figure them out. 

[Chris_R]

"And none of those reasons will include enjoying seeing our left side get roasted and conceding goals because of it."

 

And yet, that's what's happening.

 

 

Edited February 10 by Chris_R

[Lush Vlad]

21 minutes ago, alexf said:

Props for the result and for trying something different to unlock Bruno higher up the pitch. 

 

However I really don't think the result should justify the team selection.

 

I believe that should have been far more comfortable than it was. 

 

It needs to be flipped. Tino should be starting games and Burn on at the end if we need to sit deeper and see out some pressure. 

 

Also we complain we had no subs before and players getting run into the ground but then we run Wilson and/Gordon till the end when Gordon looked done for a lot sooner. 

 

 

 

I actually would have made changes earlier. But to play devil’s advocate, it was a tight game, Howe clearly has his guys he trusts and he sees as his main men. So like it or not, they are going to play for as long as they reasonably can to execute his gameplan. 
 

Gordon did looked gassed. Whilst simultaneously still offering a great outlet and also helping out Trippier defensively.
 

I did think Wilson could have come off earlier and Murphy on (just seen he got a knock in the warm up) Gordon through the middle for a bit. But if they equalised and he was sat on the sidelines. Howe would get stick from plenty of fans and pundits alike. 

 

 

Edited February 10 by Lush Vlad

[LionOfGosforth]

Just now, Izakaya said:

Mind sharing some of those reasons? Cos it seems no one else can figure them out. 

 

Christ .

 

That Tino is still recovering from injury. That he doesn't see Tino as a LB. Maybe Tino doesn't train quite as well as he thinks he should. That Burn brings a tactical structure to the team that he prefers. The back 3 component to our success last year. Experience and familiarity with the others at the back. Tino can come on and make a difference which Burn isn't likely to do. That he's loyal and enjoys fostering harmony and that means not booting players out because a few nutcases in our fanbase can't help but revel in negativity and enjoy being right when things go wrong.

 

All or some of the above and probably a dozen others that neither I or you can guess because we don't know what goes on behind the scenes. That enough for you? 

[80]

Could do with some of this training again. We seem to have gotten back into the habit of standing and watching teammates dribbling with the ball.

[The College Dropout]

5 minutes ago, LionOfGosforth said:

 

Christ .

 

That Tino is still recovering from injury. That he doesn't see Tino as a LB. Maybe Tino doesn't train quite as well as he thinks he should. That Burn brings a tactical structure to the team that he prefers. The back 3 component to our success last year. Experience and familiarity with the others at the back. Tino can come on and make a difference which Burn isn't likely to do. That he's loyal and enjoys fostering harmony and that means not booting players out because a few nutcases in our fanbase can't help but revel in negativity and enjoy being right when things go wrong.

 

All or some of the above and probably a dozen others that neither I or you can guess because we don't know what goes on behind the scenes. That enough for you? 

Which injury is this? 
 

I really like Howe and he does so much right. But he does a few things that is difficult to understand. His continued selection of Burn is one of them. 
 

Livramento is a good 6ft by the looks of things and decent in the air. We lose some but not a crazy amount. I think he likes the left footer in there a lot. Plus the leadership. 
 

Ive never thought Burn was solid defensively. He’s been a weak link 1v1 for a long time. 

[LionOfGosforth]

15 minutes ago, Chris_R said:

"And none of those reasons will include enjoying seeing our left side get roasted and conceding goals because of it."

 

And yet, that's what's happening.

 

 

 

 

We've also just took 7 from 9 scoring 10 goals including 2 tough away games. Following on from going into the 5th round of the cup, destroying the Mackems on their own ground. I think i'll lean on the positives to get me through it.

[LionOfGosforth]

2 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Which injury is this? 
 

I really like Howe and he does so much right. But he does a few things that is difficult to understand. His continued selection of Burn is one of them. 
 

Livramento is a good 6ft by the looks of things and decent in the air. We lose some but not a crazy amount. I think he likes the left footer in there a lot. Plus the leadership. 
 

Ive never thought Burn was solid defensively. He’s been a weak link 1v1 for a long time. 

 

Tino is a year or so removed from a torn ACL. With so many injuries, I wouldn't be surprised if EH doesn't quite want to risk a big asset so easily too soon and perhaps his training regime will ramp up and we'll see more of him later this season and next. That's my guess anyway.

[The College Dropout]

6 minutes ago, LionOfGosforth said:

 

Tino is a year or so removed from a torn ACL. With so many injuries, I wouldn't be surprised if EH doesn't quite want to risk a big asset so easily too soon and perhaps his training regime will ramp up and we'll see more of him later this season and next. That's my guess anyway.

A year removed is a long time. 
 

EH seems perfectly happy bringing every other player back from injury and playing them nonstop until they get injured again. So I find it hard to believe he’s doing this to protect Libra from injury. He doesn’t even try to protect an injury prone 32 year old from injury in terms of minutes. 
 

Burn is not long back from injury himself and he’s only getting subbed after he’s at fault for multiple goals in a single game. He’s started damn near every game of note he’s been fit for. Thats the biggest evidence. 
 

obviously I don’t have all the info or answers. But we have a lot of evidence to come to some understandable assumptions.  Protecting Livra from injury or burnout has little evidence.  The concept alone is something I’m not sure Howe believes in in terms of minutes.  He’s flogging everyone he rates. 

[Chris_R]

10 minutes ago, LionOfGosforth said:

 

We've also just took 7 from 9 scoring 10 goals including 2 tough away games. Following on from going into the 5th round of the cup, destroying the Mackems on their own ground. I think i'll lean on the positives to get me through it.

 

On the flip side, we've conceded 7 in those three matches including 4 in one home match, drew at home against Luton Town, Burn's been directly responsible for quite a few goals and the mackems are championship garbage.

 

We've done well of late, sure, but people are right to think there are areas (one especially) where we could greatly improve. There's nothing wrong in pointing that out and being frustrated when changes don't happen.

 

Everyone before today's match said Burn would struggle, and he did. He gave away a goal (others contributed to that, sure) in exactly the way we thought he might. When things are this predictable and this avoidable, people are right to ask questions and feel annoyed.

[LionOfGosforth]

1 minute ago, The College Dropout said:

A year removed is a long time. 
 

EH seems perfectly happy bringing every other player back from injury and playing them nonstop until they get injured again. So I find it hard to believe he’s doing this to protect Libra from injury. He doesn’t even try to protect an injury prone 32 year old from injury in terms of minutes. 
 

Burn is not long back from injury himself and he’s only getting subbed after he’s at fault for multiple goals in a single game. He’s started damn near every game of note he’s been fit for. Thats the biggest evidence. 
 

obviously I don’t have all the info or answers. But we have a lot of evidence to come to some understandable assumptions.  Protecting Livra from injury or burnout has little evidence.  The concept alone is something I’m not sure Howe believes in in terms of minutes.  He’s flogging everyone he rates. 

 

Again, i'm just a no-nowt fan guessing. Here's a few other reasons I posted earlier:

 

Maybe he doesn't see Tino as a LB. Maybe Tino doesn't train quite as well as he thinks he should. That Burn brings a tactical structure to the team that he prefers. The back 3 component to our success last year. Experience and familiarity with the others at the back. Tino can come on and make a difference which Burn isn't likely to do. That he's loyal and enjoys fostering harmony and that means not booting players out because a few nutcases in our fanbase can't help but revel in negativity and enjoy being right when things go wrong.

 

You seem to be saying (like a few others) that EH is pickign Burn just for the hell of it, with no reasonable argument to do so. Again, I highly doubt our manager, who has forgotten more about high-level football than i'll ever know, just does this for the hell of it. I think a lot of people are ignoring the fact that Burn played much better later in the game but changing tune to give praise is hard to do. Much easier to criticize.

 

I also happen to think the Pope injury has cost us just as much, if not more than goals coming down Burn's side. 

[Geordie Ahmed]

For those that claim he has no plan B and that he's very rigid and predictable would do well to remember today when they will inevitably get ready to have a go when we dare to next lose

 

Utilising Botman to play those passes in between the lines and having Bruno further forward with Miley back was good to see and ultimately was what helped us win

 

Of course there are aspects we need to get better at, still easy to cut us open at times through the middle and Burn when isolated against pace is a problem

 

Still, we are in a decent bit of form, he's halted that awful run we are on and now needs to make sure we don't have a repeat of that 

[LionOfGosforth]

2 minutes ago, Chris_R said:

 

On the flip side, we've conceded 7 in those three matches including 4 in one home match, drew at home against Luton Town, Burn's been directly responsible for quite a few goals and the mackems are championship garbage.

 

We've done well of late, sure, but people are right to think there are areas (one especially) where we could greatly improve. There's nothing wrong in pointing that out and being frustrated when changes don't happen.

 

Everyone before today's match said Burn would struggle, and he did. He gave away a goal (others contributed to that, sure) in exactly the way we thought he might. When things are this predictable and this avoidable, people are right to ask questions and feel annoyed.

 

Agree, there's nothing wrong in pointing out frustrations in a reasonable manner. It's also fine to point out Burn has not been as bad as suggested throughout entire games, and to a degree, being left in the firing line is not on him, so a reasonable person will look beyond what is on the surface and conclude there's more to this than meets the eye. I think there's an element (not you particularly) that can't wait for a mistake to be able to point it out and say "see!!? he's fucked it up again" but equally are silent when he plays well. Also, Pope not being there to sweep is a huge problem and has cost us just as much, if not more.

[Chris_R]

1 minute ago, LionOfGosforth said:

You seem to be saying (like a few others) that EH is pickign Burn just for the hell of it

 

No, he's picking Burn because he's tall. Because we go to a back three when Trippier goes forward.

 

The problem is, Burn is undroppable because nobody else is tall enough to replace him, no matter how badly he gets torn apart match after match. Which is infuriating.

 

You say maybe Howe doesn't see Tino as a left back. Here's news, neither is Burn. He's a centre back who occasionally plays left back. I'd have Targett, Hall and Livramento all ahead of him for left back, but yet Burn keeps all of them out because if his height. In every other respect, the others are better footballers. But they're not tall enough. 

[54]

I love this narrative that Burn get torn "match after match" when he was MOTM against both Fulham and Villa and rightly so

[Ronson333]

1 minute ago, Chris_R said:

 

No, he's picking Burn because he's tall. Because we go to a back three when Trippier goes forward.

 

The problem is, Burn is undroppable because nobody else is tall enough to replace him, no matter how badly he gets torn apart match after match. Which is infuriating.

 

You say maybe Howe doesn't see Tino as a left back. Here's news, neither is Burn. He's a centre back who occasionally plays left back. I'd have Targett, Hall and Livramento all ahead of him for left back, but yet Burn keeps all of them out because if his height. In every other respect, the others are better footballers. But they're not tall enough. 

The thing is Tino and Targett offer a lot going forward. Tino with his forward runs and Targett with his crossing, not seen enough of Hall to make a judgement. Burn is actually pretty good with the ball at the back, but he’s not an attacking left back.

[LionOfGosforth]

5 minutes ago, Chris_R said:

 

No, he's picking Burn because he's tall. Because we go to a back three when Trippier goes forward.

 

The problem is, Burn is undroppable because nobody else is tall enough to replace him, no matter how badly he gets torn apart match after match. Which is infuriating.

 

You say maybe Howe doesn't see Tino as a left back. Here's news, neither is Burn. He's a centre back who occasionally plays left back. I'd have Targett, Hall and Livramento all ahead of him for left back, but yet Burn keeps all of them out because if his height. In every other respect, the others are better footballers. But they're not tall enough. 

 

That's bollocks, total hyperbole to suit an ongoing narrative and you know it.

 

As for the rest, if Targett hadn't gotten injured, maybe aye. Hall we don't know what's up there and again, for those hard of hearing, maybe he just doesn't think Tino is a LB. Other than that, we're guessing.

 

 

Edited February 10 by LionOfGosforth

[54]

2 minutes ago, 54 said:

I love this narrative that Burn get torn "match after match" when he was MOTM against both Fulham and Villa and rightly so

Before anyone comes at me, he obviously lacks pace, and that has cost us, especially against Luton, his lack of pace is an issue and will need to be resolved but he's not as bad as some make out.

[LionOfGosforth]

1 minute ago, 54 said:

Before anyone comes at me, he obviously lacks pace, and that has cost us, especially against Luton, his lack of pace is an issue and will need to be resolved but he's not as bad as some make out.

 

He never had pace to begin with, it didn't hurt us much last year. For me, the biggest issue is the freak injury to Pope. It has cost us so damn much. A defense that was brilliant has suddenly become useless overnight. Aye

[Solitude20]

3 minutes ago, 54 said:

Before anyone comes at me, he obviously lacks pace, and that has cost us, especially against Luton, his lack of pace is an issue and will need to be resolved but he's not as bad as some make out.

It is not that he’s bad, it’s more like we have a better fullback sitting on the bench. 

[The College Dropout]

12 minutes ago, LionOfGosforth said:

 

Again, i'm just a no-nowt fan guessing. Here's a few other reasons I posted earlier:

 

Maybe he doesn't see Tino as a LB. Maybe Tino doesn't train quite as well as he thinks he should. That Burn brings a tactical structure to the team that he prefers. The back 3 component to our success last year. Experience and familiarity with the others at the back. Tino can come on and make a difference which Burn isn't likely to do. That he's loyal and enjoys fostering harmony and that means not booting players out because a few nutcases in our fanbase can't help but revel in negativity and enjoy being right when things go wrong.

 

You seem to be saying (like a few others) that EH is pickign Burn just for the hell of it, with no reasonable argument to do so. Again, I highly doubt our manager, who has forgotten more about high-level football than i'll ever know, just does this for the hell of it. I think a lot of people are ignoring the fact that Burn played much better later in the game but changing tune to give praise is hard to do. Much easier to criticize.

 

I also happen to think the Pope injury has cost us just as much, if not more than goals coming down Burn's side. 

No im not saying that at all. I’ve never suggested that.  I’m on record as to saying I like Burns profile as a LB. A defence first left footed LB who is tall and can tuck in to make a back 3 in build up.  I just don’t think he’s good at it. I’m also on record as saying I think Burn brings a lot of leadership to the team. I know Howe has his reasons for starting him, there are numerous reasons to start him. I just think atm he’s wrong.  The weaknesses outweigh the strengths. Burns confidence is clearly going too. He’s a weakness in the team and it’s getting exploited. He doesn’t have Joe infront of him to protect him and he doesn’t have Pope behind him to sweep up hopeful balls behind him. He’s becoming a liability. 
 

Football fans know a lot about their team.  We watch them week in week out. You have eyes and a brain.  Howe is a professional and knows a lot more than us aye. That doesn’t mean he is always right and we are always wrong.  

[Andy]

22 minutes ago, 54 said:

I love this narrative that Burn get torn "match after match" when he was MOTM against both Fulham and Villa and rightly so

 

He got man of the match against Fulham, but not Villa? Schar was MOTM against Villa. Burn struggled against Bailey in the second half of that game and was subbed off. 

 

Edit: not subbed off, but Livramento was brought on to support him