Eddie Howe

[The College Dropout]

13 minutes ago, Cronky said:

The main areas of debate seem to be whether players have been unwisely rushed back from injury, and whether Eddie should have used his subs bench more. 

 

The first issue isn't a matter of science - there's always an element of risk, and we're really not in a position to say whether Eddie and/or the medical staff have gone too far. Personally, I think Eddie tends to err on the side of caution, compared to other managers. His own playing career was ruined by a return from injury that turned out to be premature.

 

Our subs bench has looked very weak over the last few weeks, there's no question of that. There's a case for saying he should have used Tino or Hall more, but they're both inexperienced and it's not as though we have a first team full of stars that can compensate. Eddie relies a lot on team-work, and he has a way of holding players back until they're fully integrated into his systems. Bruno and Gordon struggled to get starts at first, and now look at them.

 

The main voices questioning Eddie seem to emanate from the Metropolitan media. Because we're owned by the Saudis and have reached the Champions League, the journos are expecting our owners to react as though we were Man City. The expectations that should exist with our current squad are entirely different. 

 

Eddie has brains and balls in abundance and we could not be in better hands IMO.

Based on the evidence - I don't think this is true.

 

We have a player on record - saying he rushed himself back to fitness. We've seen Joelinton & Gordon visibly injured and continue to play with Joelinton's injury a season-ender. We've also seen several players look unfit for several games at a time. And many players playing on despite clearly being exhausted.

 

We have several instances of players coming back and being injured again within 6 games. We have several instances of players playing until they pick up fatigue loaded injuries.

 

Again, I like Eddie a lot. Happy that he's in charge. But I think he's made several strategic and tactical mistakes that have contributed to a lot of our issues.

12 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Also we don’t know if players have been rushed back and we don’t know if rotating in random kids would have made any difference whatsoever. 

 

[TRon]

13 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Also we don’t know if players have been rushed back and we don’t know if rotating in random kids would have made any difference whatsoever. 

 

But surely random kids could at least press or close down more effectively than exhausted players who are barely moving after playing twice a week for a month?

 

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

7 minutes ago, TRon said:

But surely random kids could at least press or close down more effectively than exhausted players who are barely moving after playing twice a week for a month?

 

In the abstract, as a fan, I tend to agree. But professional football managers don't really seem to go in for this kind of thing. 

[Ghandis Flip-Flop]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

He's not though. Like I said, he was brought back early. Played 90 minutes again and again until injured. He's as injured as often as Isak. 

 

 

Id say you had a point if Wilson's issues were just this season, but it’s been the story of his career since before he even arrived here. Why do you think someone with his numbers ended up at Mike Ashley's Newcastle? 
 

Blaming the staff for not turning around a player the wrong side of 30, with a consistent history of being injury prone,  just seems incongruent to me

[Lush Vlad]

16 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

But surely random kids could at least press or close down more effectively than exhausted players who are barely moving after playing twice a week for a month?

 

 

Did you watch when the fresh legs of Parkinson against Bournemouth and Diallo and Ndiweni against Chelsea were introduced? They looked miles off the standard and pace of the game. Even in the 30 minutes and 5-6 mins they got on the pitch. 
 

That’s before factoring in Howe’s system

supposedly being very complex and demanding. Along with the fact he has his favourites who he trusts and for better or worse. He has historically taken his time to bed players in, where possible. 
 

If they’re some of the better options we have in the youth ranks. Then it’s not looking great for the future. 
 

Our U23’s don’t even seem very good at the level they play at. 

[Ghandis Flip-Flop]

19 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Based on the evidence - I don't think this is true.

 

We have a player on record - saying he rushed himself back to fitness. We've seen Joelinton & Gordon visibly injured and continue to play with Joelinton's injury a season-ender. We've also seen several players look unfit for several games at a time. And many players playing on despite clearly being exhausted.

 

We have several instances of players coming back and being injured again within 6 games. We have several instances of players playing until they pick up fatigue loaded injuries.

 

Again, I like Eddie a lot. Happy that he's in charge. But I think he's made several strategic and tactical mistakes that have contributed to a lot of our issues.

 

Right this is why you do annoy several people on here. Your opinion or observations are just that, observations and opinions. Conflating that with "evidence" is at best disingenuous or at worst just fucking deluded. Do you think your Mk1 eyeball is a better judge of player loading and fatigue than the clubs team of sports scientists? If you genuinely believe that, pimp yourself around PL clubs you’d save them a fortune.

 

 

[The College Dropout]

Again, we have 1 player on record saying he rushed himself back to fitness. Go and listen to his podcast. That is actual evidence against "being cautious with injuries". We know for a fact, Joelinton continued to play despite picking up what turned out to be a season-ending injury.

 

These 2 things are not opinions these are facts.

[The Prophet]

Howe has to make a call based on information from the medical team, the sports science team and the players themselves.

 

I dare say they've tried to minimise risk, but some risk has had to be taken due to the lack of fit squad members.

[madras]

21 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Again, we have 1 player on record saying he rushed himself back to fitness. Go and listen to his podcast. That is actual evidence against "being cautious with injuries". We know for a fact, Joelinton continued to play despite picking up what turned out to be a season-ending injury.

 

These 2 things are not opinions these are facts.

It happens all the time, players coming back quicker than ideal and playing through injury.

 

Re Joelinton, how many times have players played on not knowing their injury was more serious than thought.

 

Really we should take anyone off at the first twinge.

[TRon]

34 minutes ago, Lush Vlad said:

Did you watch when the fresh legs of Parkinson against Bournemouth and Diallo and Ndiweni against Chelsea were introduced? They looked miles off the standard and pace of the game. Even in the 30 minutes and 5-6 mins they got on the pitch. 
 

That’s before factoring in Howe’s system

supposedly being very complex and demanding. Along with the fact he has his favourites who he trusts and for better or worse. He has historically taken his time to bed players in, where possible. 
 

If they’re some of the better options we have in the youth ranks. Then it’s not looking great for the future. 
 

Our U23’s don’t even seem very good at the level they play at. 

 

Those are probably the only two games I've missed all season due to prior commitments.

[timeEd32]

I think people are forgetting how dire it got. Coming out of an international break in late November we played the following games with these benches: 

 

Chelsea home: Dubravka, Karius, Gillespie, Ritchie, Dummett, A. Murphy, Ndiweni, Diallo, Parkinson

 

3 days later...

 

PSG away: Dubravka, Karius, Dummett, Hall, Huntley, Ndiweni, Parkinson

 

4 days later...

 

Man United home: Dubravka, Karius, Ritchie, Dummett, Krafth, Hall, A. Murphy, Diallo, Parkinson

 

5 days later...

 

Everton away: Karius, Gillespie, Dummett, Hall, Krafth, Ritchie, A. Murphy, Diallo, Parkinson

 

3 days later...

 

Spurs away: Karius, Gillespie, Dummett, A. Murphy, Krafth, Ritchie, Hall, Longstaff, Wilson

 

----------

 

We played 5 games in 15 days against mostly good teams with a 'break glass in case of emergency only' type of bench. We also lost our goalkeeper in the middle of that stretch, which I think we're all realizing is probably an even bigger loss than originally feared. We had exactly 11 genuine first team players give their all for almost 300 minutes of football in a week and then we paid the price for it for a month. 

 

The six games we had to play in the next 21 days off the back of this have defined our season to this point -- we went out of Europe, we went out of the League Cup, and we had our worst run in the league with losses to Luton and Forest. 

[Ghandis Flip-Flop]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

Again, we have 1 player on record saying he rushed himself back to fitness. Go and listen to his podcast. That is actual evidence against "being cautious with injuries". We know for a fact, Joelinton continued to play despite picking up what turned out to be a season-ending injury.

 

These 2 things are not opinions these are facts.

I've listened to Wilson's podcast on multiple occasions and would say it’s decent entertainment but not terribly informative or illuminating. There’s also a difference between being rushed back and playing earlier than they’d have preferred. But as with every conversation on the internet, there’s never any nuance 😮‍💨

[The College Dropout]

4 hours ago, Ghandis Flip-Flop said:

I've listened to Wilson's podcast on multiple occasions and would say it’s decent entertainment but not terribly informative or illuminating. There’s also a difference between being rushed back and playing earlier than they’d have preferred. But as with every conversation on the internet, there’s never any nuance 😮‍💨

You have not listened to the episode I’m referring too.  He explicitly says he rushed himself back when he wasn’t ready and that’s why he got injured again.  Those are his own words and he was clear. 
 

And you are refusing to accept it. Just read what you wrote.  Does that make sense to you?

[Vinny Green Balls]

20 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Thanks

 

The point obviously was that Howe isn’t a young manager - most managers who are successful are actually successful at this point.  Doesn’t mean he won’t win things with us, but he’s not a whippersnapper

People still underestimate what Howe did with Bournemouth. Pep had the reins handed to him given his status at Barcelona. Just happened that he is brilliant as well.

 

Anyway, 46 is still fairly young for managers.

[Cronky]

31 minutes ago, Vinny Green Balls said:

People still underestimate what Howe did with Bournemouth. Pep had the reins handed to him given his status at Barcelona. Just happened that he is brilliant as well.

 

Anyway, 46 is still fairly young for managers.

 

I'd say he's still young in terms of his ambition, energy and desire to improve. It's interesting that he says he looks for a desire for self-improvement in assessing players, because that's very much part of his own make-up.

 

Age isn't just a matter of years - it's the freshness that you bring to your job, and that's still very much there.

 

It's striking that he spent 10 years in his first job - if you discount that brief spell at Burnley. He also looks committed to a long stay here. I sense that even if the likes of Chelsea or Man U came knocking, he'd be reluctant to leave. Family is important to him, and perhaps he doesn't want to be carting them round the country, or being absent from them during the week, as some managers end up doing. He's the antithesis of the 'large than life' football manager, but beneath the exterior there's that passion to succeed.

 

I think what I'm driving at is you can't assess this man by the usual criteria. It's like he's self-made.

[TheBrownBottle]

1 hour ago, Vinny Green Balls said:

People still underestimate what Howe did with Bournemouth. Pep had the reins handed to him given his status at Barcelona. Just happened that he is brilliant as well.

 

Anyway, 46 is still fairly young for managers.

Tbf I did say earlier that I wasn’t looking to knock his achievements at Bournemouth - his track record there was incredible.  Not suggesting that Howe isn’t a top manager - but it is the case that most of the top managers in the game had actually embedded themselves in history at that age - a decent number (Michels, Sacchi, Clough, Mourinho, Benitez etc) pretty much had their best years behind them at that point. 

[RS]

2 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Tbf I did say earlier that I wasn’t looking to knock his achievements at Bournemouth - his track record there was incredible.  Not suggesting that Howe isn’t a top manager - but it is the case that most of the top managers in the game had actually embedded themselves in history at that age - a decent number (Michels, Sacchi, Clough, Mourinho, Benitez etc) pretty much had their best years behind them at that point. 

Howe has pretty much spent his whole career managing shite football clubs. And we were an absolute parcel of shite when he took over. 

[Shearergol]

Callum Wilson on his most recent injury:

Quote

 

"I'm fine. I had a leg injury and missed a lot of games. When I came back, I hurt my calf.

"After two weeks, you play four or five 90-minute games." No one is to blame; it was just the way things turned out.

"I would volunteer to play every game if they asked me again." There are times when that could hurt me. I wouldn't change anything

 

 

Howe out.

[STM]

17 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

Based on the evidence - I don't think this is true.

 

We have a player on record - saying he rushed himself back to fitness. We've seen Joelinton & Gordon visibly injured and continue to play with Joelinton's injury a season-ender. We've also seen several players look unfit for several games at a time. And many players playing on despite clearly being exhausted.

 

We have several instances of players coming back and being injured again within 6 games. We have several instances of players playing until they pick up fatigue loaded injuries.

 

Again, I like Eddie a lot. Happy that he's in charge. But I think he's made several strategic and tactical mistakes that have contributed to a lot of our issues.

 

 

I don't think there's any doubt we've rushed players back. It would have to be one helluva coincidence that Isak and Wilson are miraculously back when the other gets crocked.

 

However....

 

For years players have played through pain barriers or have come back early because of injury crisis. Its a gamble and a gamble that has failed for us. I'm not sure it's a stick to beat Howe with mind. He's almost certainly taking advice from his medical team on this.

 

Also, alot of our injuries have been freak ones. Pope (shoulder), Burn (back), Anderson (back), Barnes (toe) and then Tonalis suspension (we won't go over old ground).

 

There's 5 missing before a medical decision has been made. That puts us on the back foot from the start.

 

I think we certainly could have dealt with Isak and Willock better. Wilson we only have ourselves to blame. He's a crock, always has been. We  need to learn our lesson.

[Lazarus]

17 minutes ago, STM said:

 

For years players have played through pain barriers or have come back early because of injury crisis. Its a gamble and a gamble that has failed for us. I'm not sure it's a stick to beat Howe with mind. He's almost certainly taking advice from his medical team on this.

 

 

Didnt Shola play for years with a hip (?) problem?

[Lotus]

18 hours ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

Also we don’t know if players have been rushed back and we don’t know if rotating in random kids would have made any difference whatsoever. 

This i very much agree with because kids are never tried. 
Personally don’t consider Tino to be random and he’s one at least I would have thought would have seen a bit more pitch time but up to now, EH hasn’t thought so. 
We’ll see how it plays out through the rest of the season. 

[TheBrownBottle]

57 minutes ago, Shearergol said:

Callum Wilson on his most recent injury:

 

Howe out.

Wilson would be philosophical tbf - the bloke spends half his life injured 

[Shearergol]

3 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Wilson would be philosophical tbf - the bloke spends half his life injured 

Agree. Needs to be the first player replaced in summer.

[Holmesy]

23 hours ago, Ghandis Flip-Flop said:

 Think even last week's result needs some context applying. Luto had just smashed Brighton 4-0 so had their tails right up. And how many other Newcastle teams would have withered away when their 4th went in? 
 

if you’d have said before the Villa game we'll get four points from the next two games, most fans would’ve been very happy with that. Does the fact the three of those four points came at Villa Park instead of at home as expected really change that?

This is spot on re: the points, however, it ignores the things we witnessed with our own eyes. There were clear reasons we were 2-4 down and those reasons have been apparent in other games as well. It was to a large extent self-inflicted. You have to give credit to Luton because they executed a game plan almost perfectly. It was good management on the part of Edwards.
 

But, regardless of the 4 points, we now have a situation where if Forest do a number on us and during that number, Dan Burn in particular has another stinker, dissenting voices will start to grow in numbers and volume. 

 

Football has never been a game where fans look at points in isolation. We examine performances in detail, whether the result is positive or otherwise. Nature of the game. 

[madras]

3 minutes ago, Holmesy said:

This is spot on re: the points, however, it ignores the things we witnessed with our own eyes. There were clear reasons we were 2-4 down and those reasons have been apparent in other games as well. It was to a large extent self-inflicted. You have to give credit to Luton because they executed a game plan almost perfectly. It was good management on the part of Edwards.
 

But, regardless of the 4 points, we now have a situation where if Forest do a number on us and during that number, Dan Burn in particular has another stinker, dissenting voices will start to grow in numbers and volume. 

 

Football has never been a game where fans look at points in isolation. We examine performances in detail, whether the result is positive or otherwise. Nature of the game. 

We don't like. Many a shit performance has been masked by ok results.