Eddie Howe

[The College Dropout]

8 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

Milan away, they were quite happy for us to have the ball, knowing how effective their counter attack was.

 

No Joelinton and Willock, along with a half fit Longstaff made the midfield too easy to play through. Due to absentees, it's been a theme this season.

 

Howe has tried to switch up the flat midfield three. We've had Bruno deep, Miley and Longstaff deep, Miley and Longstaff switched, man for man pressing, being more passive, but none of it has looked particularly effective with the personnel available. Unless he switches formations it'll be a struggle.

 

Klopp had a similar problem last season and Liverpool went out and bought an entire midfield unit. It's a system that requires physicality and athleticism in the middle.

Second half Milan it was backs-to-the-wall stuff. Along with an exhausted Isak playing way too long. That's been a theme this season in several games. IMO we were lucky to get that point. We've kept performing like that (and worse) and have reaped our deserved lack of points. As you say, injuries and fatigue have also played a factor but as Big Jow points out - it was happening before both of those really hit.

 

Overall I agree with most of your points.

[Sibierski]

6 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

 

We did want to stay in the CL though, not just settle for Europa. 

 

And we should still be in if it wasn't for a horrific decision.

And that could’ve been done by not being naive. Milan main strength was counter, they too wanted to stay in and had to push for a win. Shift the game style and overall game management, instead we went gung-ho, and early too in that approach, and played right into their strengths. Then we were shattered to try and break them down just to get back level.

 

 

Edited February 26 by Sibierski

[The Prophet]

1 minute ago, The College Dropout said:

Second half Milan it was backs-to-the-wall stuff. Along with an exhausted Isak playing way too long. That's been a theme this season in several games. IMO we were lucky to get that point. We've kept performing like that (and worse) and have reaped our deserved lack of points. As you say, injuries and fatigue have also played a factor but as Big Jow points out - it was happening before both of those really hit.

 

Overall I agree with most of your points.

 

I don't think anyone would dispute we were lucky to escape with a point, Pope was outstanding.

 

The gap between the midfield and defence has been a constant tactical problem all season, which is exacerbated when we're unable to press effectively.

 

Personally, it's why I'd like us to buy a DM. It gives us a bit more flexibility in games where the press isn't working or we're unable to do so effectively due to injury or fatigue.

[Erikse]

4 hours ago, Optimistic Nut said:

 

Pretty sure if our kids were as good as theirs, he'd be playing them (see Miley).

 

Our equivalent of the kid they threw on up top is currently on loan in the Scottish 3rd tier, for instance. 

 

The argument was often that we should never take off our main players for kids who hasn't played before, as if that's something that you can almost never do. If you read back the exact words that were often used, then that would also cover what Klopp did yesterday as something that you should never do.

 

Also, did Miley get any minutes at all in the league when we had any other senior player available? He hasn't come on as a sub in any game, and as far as I can remember we've never had any other midfielders available when he has started in the league this season.

 

 

Edited February 26 by Erikse

[The College Dropout]

2 minutes ago, Big Jow said:

 

We would’ve beat Milan at home if we didn’t get that shocker at PSG, we only lost that game as we got more and more desperate.

 

We were also unlucky vs. Dortmund at home, were worthy of a point. Suppose that’s football at the highest level though, fine margins.

I don't think we were unlucky against Dortmund at all. Well beaten in both games.

 

Truthfully, I don't think we played well in the CL on the balance of play. Obviously game state changes how the games pan out. 

 

No issue with the Dortmund or PSG H performances. We tried to play our game and we came up short on quality and high on naivety.

 

I'm not mad though - we were the weakest team on paper in that group and we deservedly finished last based on performance. But out on that pitch we were cheated.

[The College Dropout]

3 minutes ago, Erikse said:

 

The argument was often that we should never take off our main players for kids who hasn't played before, as if that's something that you can almost never do. If you read back the exact words that were often used, then that would also cover what Klopp did yesterday as something that you should never do.

 

Also, did Miley get any minutes at all in the league when we had any other senior player available? He hasn't come on as a sub in any game, and as far as I can remember we've never had any other midfielders available when he has started in the league this season.

 

 

 

It's a bad-faith argument that's best to ignore. There have been several games Isak is barely moving for 30 minutes. Literally anyone that can run would've done a better job.

 

I get the argument that he's left on incase he comes up with a bit of magic. But after the 3rd time he's offered nowt in those circumstances you would hope lessons have been learned. And I do think perhaps lessons are being learned. Howe is taking Isak off earlier when he tires for example.

 

 

Edited February 26 by The College Dropout

[The Prophet]

3 minutes ago, Erikse said:

 

The argument was often that we should never take off our main players for kids who hasn't played before, as if that's something that you can almost never do. If you read back the exact words that were often used, then that would also cover what Klopp did yesterday as something that you should never do.

 

Also, did Miley get any minutes at all in the league when we had any other senior player available? He hasn't come on as a sub in any game, and as far as I can remember we've never had any other midfielders available when he has started in the league this season.

 

 

 

 

Is that not somewhat dependant on the quality of said kids?

[Hanshithispantz]

1 minute ago, Big Jow said:

 

The stats page I was looking at had possession at 50/50 interesting that they differ.

 

You also don’t include key metrics like shots (them 15, to our 2). Or where that possession was on the pitch, a majority of the first half possession was defensively.

 

We could have 95% possession but if we set up like he did, it is only going to achieve a draw at best unless we attempt to attack and/or have shots.

I'm not even sure what you're getting at here? Milan were far better than us, I'm not denying that.

 

My point us that we started the game with Milan sitting back and hitting us on the break. We couldn't break them down and they repeatedly cut through us.

 

You made a point that we set up to play out a draw, sitting infront of our own box, and that apparently has been Howe's blueprint ever since?

[Erikse]

2 hours ago, The Prophet said:

 

Is that not somewhat dependant on the quality of said kids?

 

It's dependant on other things too as I said earlier. Klopp took them on for Gakpo and MacAllister in a final. I believe they weren't nearly as knackered as some of our players were. Do you think Howe would've done the same?

 

 

Edited February 26 by Erikse

[The Prophet]

Just now, Erikse said:

 

It's dependant on other things too as I said earlier. Klopp took them on for Gakpo and MacAllister in a final. Do you think Howe would do that?

 

Not with our kids, no. Give him Liverpool's academy and I don't have a clue.

[Erikse]

4 hours ago, Optimistic Nut said:

 

Same with Klopp at the moment. They'd not be playing if their players were fit.

 

Difference is, they've had one of the best youth setups in years, ours has been neglected and we likely won't see the benefits of any changes at that level in the first team for a few years yet. 

 

 

 

 

Did Gakpo or Mac Allister get injured? The point here is that we didn't make subs on our knackered players. Klopp could've chosen to stick with his players and not sub them.

 

 

Edited February 26 by Erikse

[The College Dropout]

We've seen Howe reluctant to use Livra & Hall who have better reputations than those Liverpool lads. Livra actually proven at this level. 

 

Again, bad faith argument.

[The Prophet]

Livramento has has made 19 appearances this season mind. 

[Parsley]

I didn't think PSG was overly negative, at least initially. First half, I thought we went toe-to-toe and shaded it. Second, we quickly ran out of legs and so Howe opted to stick everyone behind the ball. The Chelsea game in the Carabao Cup was managed similarly. 

 

I also didn't think there was all that much wrong with the Dortmund approach at SJP either. Granted, Dortmund were the classier side for the most part but, while we didn't control the game, had more than enough chances to have taken at least a point. I don't think an approach can ever be fundamentally wrong when the margins are that fine. 

 

No way our squad could've coped with Europa League so I didn't mind going out the way we did against Milan. 

[The College Dropout]

8 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

Livramento has has made 19 appearances this season mind. 

Most starts due to injuries. Most sub appearances with less than 20 minutes to go (non-verified).

[The College Dropout]

I don't think PSG was negative. There were just no changes when we needed changes.

 

The game wasn't too dissimilar to the Liverpool away game. Except Liverpool scored more goals.

 

We look like a team trying to defend - that doesn't know how to defend. Not the actual defenders - they did a decent job in both games but the entire defensive setup out of possession. 

 

What's become obvious is that we can't play our game without the Joe's at all. Tonali was meant to help with that and we know how that went.

[Interpolic]

Absolute waste of time but this was our bench at PSG:

 

Dubravka
Karius
Dummett
Hall
Huntley
Ndiweni
Parkinson

[The Prophet]

Based on his brief time here, it's tough to tell how Howe likes to blood youth. 

 

He's kept Anderson and Miley in the squad when they could have been loaned, the latter has definitely played more than he would have due to injury. 

 

Gordon was given minutes when he signed.

 

Livramento has plenty of minutes, again potentially more due to injury, while the Hall transfer seems a bit of a mystery at the moment. 

 

Above anything it seems like he needs to trust the player to implement what he wants before he plays regularly.

 

How was he at Bournemouth?

 

 

Edited February 26 by The Prophet

[The College Dropout]

1 minute ago, The Prophet said:

Based on his brief time here, it's tough to tell how Howe likes to blood youth. 

 

He's kept Anderson and Miley in the squad when they could have been loaned, the latter has definitely played more than he would have due to injury. 

 

Gordon was given minutes when he signed.

 

Livramento has plenty of minutes, again potentially more due to injury, while the Hall transfer seems a bit of a mystery at the moment. 

 

Above anything it seems like he needs to trust the player to implement what he wants before he plays regularly.

It's also hard to tell because of the lack of quality in the squad and youths.

 

I think Anderson was only kept around last season because we didn't have any CM cover. He didn't get enough minutes for his development IMO and would've had even less minutes had Shelvey been fit. It will be interesting to see what we do with him, Miley and Feyenoord lad next season - assuming we fill out the squad. Which I'm not hopeful for.

[arnonel]

In the press conferences, who is the person who asks questions first?

[Yorkie]

11 minutes ago, arnonel said:

In the press conferences, who is the person who asks questions first?

 

It's usually (and was today) Matthew 'Razor' Raisbeck.

[arnonel]

6 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

 

It's usually (and was today) Matthew 'Razor' Raisbeck.

Tx

Like his style

[TBG]

Ahhh, so that's how it's spelt.

 

For a long time, I thought he was nicknamed it for his love of Robot Wars season 5 winner, Razer. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

FWIW Klopp didn't win the cup because he brought on loads of kids, he won the cup because VDV is good at headers. 

 

And their kids are probably much, much better than ours anyway. And they're being introduced into a confident and successful team.

[Big Jow]

52 minutes ago, Interpolic said:

Absolute waste of time but this was our bench at PSG:

 

Dubravka
Karius
Dummett
Hall
Huntley
Ndiweni
Parkinson

 

The Isak conversation has been done to death but you could be totally sensationalist and argue any of those, including the keepers, would have contributed more than he was able to for the last 10 minutes or so. Any mobile player with lung capacity was worthwhile putting into his position as he could barely move.

 

I’d have also swapped Tino for Hall.

 

It’s all fairly irrelevant as we’ll never know what would have happened and the whole discussion is based on thoughts, feelings and guesswork. 

 

The very small overall point being made is that our approach on Saturday was dreadful and sadly it’s not the first, second or third time we’ve had to witness it this season - all without any success.