Newcastle United Women - Champions and Promoted

[et tu brute]

36 minutes ago, OpenC said:

Aye, I'm not actively against Newcastle doing it for exactly that reason (everybody else with any success is doing the same). It just feels a bit hollower than I thought it would. 

 

I suppose the bigger part of me does want to see how Tyler Dodds and Hannah Greenwood and the like get on at the next level rather than just being replaced with known quantities who are ready to go, even at the expense of progression. They'll still be my team, this is where I was born after all, but the prospect of this year's lasses who have played so well and steamrollered all (well, most) comers being broken up and moved on without kicking a ball is a miserable one.

If they're good enough they will, if not they will be moved on. They will have a pick of clubs to go to though I would imagine. The standard gets a lot higher each level you move up to, so to compete you need a higher standard of player. It's the way of football and whilst some teams can't afford to improve their squad in a big way, clubs with money and ambition (like us now), will always look to improve their playing squad in every possible way they can. I get the sentiment and I would love the lasses there currently to be at the level to challenge. Unfortunately though there are a few who just aren't.

[OpenC]

Yeah, I understand of course that it was always going to happen and I hope they go on to be absolute world beaters. I'm sure they will 

 

 

 

Edited April 23 by OpenC

[Iwantcurlyhair2]

It's going to be interesting how she develops the team. We have played a high line back 3, in a 343 and the defence has had very little to deal with due to the front pressure and midfield block. We may have to go to a more rigid back 4 and play 433. I don't go with the massive changes required thought. I can see 4 or 5 coming in but not all starters. I expect if going 433 that the defence will be Watts , Bedeau, Potts and Cataldo. Boddy , Kelly and Stobbs in midfield with Lumsden and Barker as 2 of the front 3. That just leaves 2 starters and squad enhancers required. I will be very disappointed if 6-8 starters are brought in this summer. Palace have dropped 18 points to win the league so I hope we give them a chance and see the league at Christmas and make a transfer push then if required. We are better than most think and Becky Langley is too.

[OpenC]

Yeah that's exactly my take  they've absolutely crushed this league, they deserve a shot at it imo.

 

Concern is that they will see the inevitable writing on the wall regarding some sort of ffp restrictions and will want to get the final promotion asap to avoid that.

[Iwantcurlyhair2]

I don't think ffp will come in to it. We are averaging 10 times the attendances that half the championship are getting and only the top 4 or 5 in the WSL can match or beat our crowd levels. I think this season we will grow from 3k to 5/6k averages and will only be behind Arsenal in crowd level averages by the time we make the WSL. There is no other club that can enhance the WSL like we can and the WSL will want us to be up there. Every club in the WSL has to have cash put in to survive so they can't bring ffp in until they are self sufficient. The mens game wouldn't dare put the women's costs in to current PSR as it would shut down the WSL. 

The lasses will get there in a couple of years without immediate wholesale changes. I hope the club will be happy with just evolving. I know the fans are.

[JonBez comesock]

11 hours ago, Iwantcurlyhair2 said:

I don't think ffp will come in to it. We are averaging 10 times the attendances that half the championship are getting and only the top 4 or 5 in the WSL can match or beat our crowd levels. I think this season we will grow from 3k to 5/6k averages and will only be behind Arsenal in crowd level averages by the time we make the WSL. There is no other club that can enhance the WSL like we can and the WSL will want us to be up there. Every club in the WSL has to have cash put in to survive so they can't bring ffp in until they are self sufficient. The mens game wouldn't dare put the women's costs in to current PSR as it would shut down the WSL. 

The lasses will get there in a couple of years without immediate wholesale changes. I hope the club will be happy with just evolving. I know the fans are.

The same fans that gladly accepted 10-12 new signings throughout this current season ,? pushing a lot of the other girls out that won tier 4 🤔😄

 

Ha, that’s football though , dog eat dog 

 

The best ones will survive ⭐️

the rest will be shipped out eventually if not good enough 

 

That’s how it works.

 

i can see 8-10 departures and 4/5 coming in (as suggested above they may not be all instant starters but good enough to start/force way into the team)

 

It would be nice to see a lot of this seasons players get a good shot to show what they can do from the start (agreed) , but I would play Daisy at Right back instead of Watt

 

However I am always going to say that 😄

 

Current squad probably good enough for mid table 

 

I remember Sunderland give us a bit of  a runaround in pre season (beating us 4-2)  and they will probably finish 3rd ?

 

Full time helps though at Newcastle and we may see more improvement from current players next season.

 

Interesting summer ahead for sure.

 

 

[et tu brute]

30 minutes ago, JonBez comesock said:

The same fans that gladly accepted 10-12 new signings throughout this current season ,? pushing a lot of the other girls out that won tier 4 🤔😄

 

Ha, that’s football though , dog eat dog 

 

The best ones will survive ⭐️

the rest will be shipped out eventually if not good enough 

 

That’s how it works.

 

i can see 8-10 departures and 4/5 coming in (as suggested above they may not be all instant starters but good enough to start/force way into the team)

 

It would be nice to see a lot of this seasons players get a good shot to show what they can do from the start (agreed) , but I would play Daisy at Right back instead of Watt

 

However I am always going to say that 😄

 

Current squad probably good enough for mid table 

 

I remember Sunderland give us a bit of  a runaround in pre season (beating us 4-2)  and they will probably finish 3rd ?

 

Full time helps though at Newcastle and we may see more improvement from current players next season.

 

Interesting summer ahead for sure.

 

 

I hope the owners have learned from the mistakes in the summer concerning the men's team. You need to bring in first team starters to take the next step. The players they replace will automatically become squad players, resulting in a much improved squad.

[Jack27]

 

I assume it was never in doubt but good to have confirmed, I suppose

[Slim]

That mean they play Durham and Sunderland next year?

[OpenC]

Aye they will be

[wormy]

Appreciate the big conversation is around player turnover but what's the consensus on Becky Langley's ability? Is it felt she's got the ability to oversee the team's progression to the WSL? 

[Miercoles]

I don't see why they wouldn't push on with her until they have some reason not to.

 

I know it doesn't mean much, but I will say that in the interviews I've read with her she seems like an absolute killer. The exact kind of winning obsession you see in top coaches. There's no reason why she can't grow with the team and get to the top levels, especially bringing in talent around her.

[iklgizmo]

Yea I don't think there are a huge number of coaches/managers in the women's game with a proven track record, so it would be crazy not to give her a chance! I'm assuming the guy we got from Forest was brought in to add that bit of experience.

Would be interesting to see if any of the WSL clubs would loan us some players, or if they'll be reluctant as they won't want us progressing too fast and mixing things up!

 

Read on twitter today that with Bristol City being relegated, the WSL is now full of clubs backed by Premier league teams for the first time!

For context though, Bristol City have been averaging home crowds of about 7k all season despite not winning a single game at home, and already committed to playing all their home games at ashton gate again. I would expect them to be favourites to win the championship next year and go straight back up!

[Iwantcurlyhair2]

I don't have any doubt that Becky Langley will be here for the long haul. I'm sure she has just turned 29 but I may be wrong on that one. She has been very fortunate that her role at the Uni included NUFC women part time before the takeover but you could argue not as fortunate as NUFC women having Becky Langley. She is very young for the position and in the last 3 years has finished second, followed by back to back promotions. This is her first full time role and only started for the club full time following the takeover. Having Andy Cook alongside has been a great addition and I think she worked as an intern for him at Forest. She is definitely cut from the same cloth as Eddie.

Can you imagine being in that position when the takeover happened? She must have been 24 or 25 when she took the Northumbria Uni job with the part time foundation role and potentially by the time she is 30 she could be a manager of a WSL team. Its just incredible. Good luck to her.

I have no doubt that she will continue to take the club forward. We may have two future England managers currently at Newcastle.

[OpenC]

Tyler Dodds finally gets one nice to see. Been great all season when she got a game.

 

 

Edited May 5 by OpenC

[Iwantcurlyhair2]

A great 0-4 win to finish off the season. Roll on next year.

[Optimistic Nut]

Go and get Fran Kirby as the lasses team's equivalent of signing Keegan.

[Slater582]

On 22/04/2024 at 12:55, O Neill said:

 

There's an inevitability in this. The North-East is likely to change in much the same way that Edinburgh has over the last five years. Up here, Hibernian were always the top women's club, closely followed by Spartans, and then Hearts in a distant third. However, Hearts have ploughed money in over the last few years, and are now the best side by far, while Hibs have had to settle for second and Spartans, who have no money to spend, are a good bit behind now.

 

Just looking at the three teams in the North-East, it's hard not to see Durham going a similar route to Spartans. They won't have the finance to match the other clubs, and I'd suspect Sunderland won't be able or willing to pay what Newcastle can on contracts, and even potentially transfer fees.

 

What often isn't considered though is how the financial input influences the academies. The lure of girls potentially earning a full-time playing contract with a big club, very quickly results in academy growth in terms of volume and quality. The Hearts academy up here has become one of the best in the country within the space of 3 years. Parents pulled their kids out of other academies, to send them to Hearts, pretty much overnight, because suddenly the pathway offered a golden ticket at the end. They have some of the brightest prospects at 14-16 years old in the country. I think you are going to see the same at Newcastle over the next couple of years. Better coaches are going to arrive at academy level, more teams will be created to accommodate development and Newcastle will start to produce the best young players in the region.

 

They are not going to like it along the road, but unfortunately, that's how it is going to be. I think had they managed to get into the WSL this season, they might have delayed Newcastle's ability to overtake them for a few years yet, but at the end of the day, money is always going to the defining factor, particularly in women's football, where it isn't exactly in abundance at this point.

 

I have to admit, though, I don't know a great deal about the model they are operating at Sunderland. It looks intriguingly similar to something that Hibernian were trying to do when other clubs up here first went full-time professional. They had this hybrid model, where a handful of players were on full-time contracts. It meant that the core of their best players were being paid, while they were relying on everyone else viewing the club as their best option for football. What eventually happened is that the best players, who had no real ties to the club, eventually just moved on to clubs who were fully professional. They have since abandoned that model and gone full-time, suggesting that they realised it wasn't going to work longer term. Funnily enough, Aberdeen are running a similar model at the moment, and that has them 7th in the league, and I've heard they are also switching full-time from next season.

 

Back to Sunderland, it does seem, from the match reports that I've read, that they are struggling to draw on the gate. I keep seeing numbers between 300 and 400 for home attendances (except for Durham). If they aren't drawing money on the gate, then I'd guess that most of their finance is reliant on sponsors. That's a fairly common model in the women's game. I would go as far as to guess that they don't receive a huge sum of money from the club itself. I think it'll be quite interesting to see where they sit in five years time. With the Championship now having two relegation spots, the league is going to start to sort itself out much quicker, with plenty big name clubs below, starting to put more money into the women's game. If Sunderland are operating a hybrid model, with what feels like limited investment, I'd imagine that they'd do well to stay in the Championship for that duration. I know there are clubs in there right now, such as London City, Durham, Reading etc who are all likely to disappear first, but as more teams below start to put more money in, it could get interesting.

Was just reading an article by Craig Fowler today, apparently Celtic & Rangers budget is over a million. Hearts about half that and Hibs a little less than Hearts. Not sure how that compares to WSL teams in England or what Newcastle are investing.

 

 

Edited May 6 by Slater582

[et tu brute]

I noticed on the NUFTV highlights on YouTube that a couple of the players were crying at the end of the game. Was wondering if they had been told it was their last match. 

[OpenC]

I would hope not, but I would have thought they'd be self aware enough to realise that things will almost certainly change over the summer as discussed. It's already happened once as jonbez has pointed out.

[Paullow]

Having just watched the video, I guess both would be prime candidates. Unless being kept on for character reasons a bit like Dummett, Gillespie etc. in the men's, if you're a bit part player in a league with the Fylde's and Stourbridge's, it's only natural that opportunities will be even fewer when mixing with former recent WSL sides like Bristol C, Birmingham and Reading.

 

Just looking at the league below (tier 4) and Hull finished first ahead of Middlesbrough and Durham Cestria (who Newcastle just pipped last season) to reach tier 3. It's a bit of a shame that one of those 2 local sides couldn't have come up as although it would be a drop from full time to part time, the local fringe lasses could have had an opportunity to potentially stay in the same league, and get a bit more game time, but there's not many viable options.

[O Neill]

4 hours ago, Slater582 said:

Was just reading an article by Craig Fowler today, apparently Celtic & Rangers budget is over a million. Hearts about half that and Hibs a little less than Hearts. Not sure how that compares to WSL teams in England or what Newcastle are investing.

 

 

From what I know of the average player contracts, somewhere around £1M is about right. It's certainly reduced from the £1.5M that Rangers were throwing at it a few years ago. It's quite clear that the lack of fan interest, up here, has the Old Firm thinking twice about putting unrecoverable money in. Both clubs have a ridiculous number of sponsors involved, which I'd guess covers a good percentage of the costs. What I'm expecting to see is the spend to continue dropping over the next few years, as the sponsors now start to lose interest. A lot of the sponsors were told women's football was going to be something huge, and to get on board before the big rush. However, with attendances of 150-200 on an average week, a number of sponsors are now questioning the exposure that they are getting.

 

The type of player that Rangers and Celtic attract, tends to be lower end Championship, or players who are struggling to get a game at Championship level. An example would be Charlie Wellings, who came up here and hit 40+ goals in the league for Celtic, but has gone back to Reading, scoring 6 in 28. Most who come up here are looking for short-term payday, while also putting themselves in the shop window for a bigger move back down South.

 

The budgets of the bigger WSL clubs will be ten times what is offered up here. I know that several years back, Arsenal were paying Kim Little £120k per year, plus a house and a car. I'd expect for top stars, that number will have risen quite a bit since then, and most of these big clubs have a squad full of those players. The likes of Bristol City at the bottom end, and Crystal Palace in the Championship are probably comparable to Rangers and Celtic. The key difference will be that they can offer ambition. The prospect of playing competitive matches every single week, at a high level, is a huge draw. That isn't available in Scotland, and in my opinion, is never going to be.

 

What Newcastle are already investing, I'd suspect, is more than Celtic or Rangers. I actually think that Newcastle could do well to look at a few SWPL players, as a way of enhancing their squad for next season. There are plenty of talents up here, many not being paid a huge amount of money to play 80% of the season at a below par level. Could probably list a dozen or more potential names that would be worth looking at.

[O Neill]

8 minutes ago, Paullow said:

Having just watched the video, I guess both would be prime candidates. Unless being kept on for character reasons a bit like Dummett, Gillespie etc. in the men's, if you're a bit part player in a league with the Fylde's and Stourbridge's, it's only natural that opportunities will be even fewer when mixing with former recent WSL sides like Bristol C, Birmingham and Reading.

 

Just looking at the league below (tier 4) and Hull finished first ahead of Middlesbrough and Durham Cestria (who Newcastle just pipped last season) to reach tier 3. It's a bit of a shame that one of those 2 local sides couldn't have come up as although it would be a drop from full time to part time, the local fringe lasses could have had an opportunity to potentially stay in the same league, and get a bit more game time, but there's not many viable options.

 

This is still a big problem from women's football across the UK I think. Seen plenty of that up here, where girls who can't make it at tier 1 or tier 2 level, then suddenly find that their next option locally is tier 5. You'll get some who are willing to travel an hour plus in each direction several times a week for training, but many will eventually become lost to the game. The problem is becoming amplified by more and more players coming through youth academy systems at clubs where only a handful make it. I've seen plenty at my side, which is a lower end tier 1 team. Often solid looking footballers, who just can't break into the first team squad, but would be decent tier 2 or good tier 3 players, but just stop playing because of a lack of options nearby.

In fact, off the top of my head, from the last three seasons, I can think of 14 girls who were on the fringes of the first team, only to not make it. Of those 14, I'm only aware of 2 who are still playing in tiers 2 or 3.

[JonBez comesock]

On 23/04/2024 at 07:26, OpenC said:

Yeah that's exactly my take  they've absolutely crushed this league, they deserve a shot at it imo.

 

Concern is that they will see the inevitable writing on the wall regarding some sort of ffp restrictions and will want to get the final promotion asap to avoid that.

As mentioned …

 

Huge Changes confirmed today 

 

9-10 players released.

 

Including lots of first team regulars 

 

looking to bring in 8-9 new players 

 

Squad dismantled !

 

Aim is to go straight up / no loyalty to current squad.

 

 

 

 

[OpenC]

Ooof, grim stuff and as anticipated.  Who was released?  Or is it still not public knowledge?

 

 

Edited May 9 by OpenC