Sven Botman: targeting January return (Howe)

[Keegans Export]

1 hour ago, Milanista said:

I remember that both City and United were after Alexis Sanchez, and United won the race to sign him, so it's not like Man Utd are going after bad players.

 

I think the issue is that they don't have a plan. I realize that Pogba is not very popular in England, but I think he's been misused at Utd his entire career there. He should be playing where Bruno plays, you let him roam, he will give you enough defensive cover so you don't have a passenger, but his passing, orchestrating, and goals will flow from that position. But instead of building your team around your world-record signing, they ask him to do something different to what made them pay all that money. At Juve, he had Pirlo, Vidal, and Marchisio behind him. For France in the World Cup, he had Kante and Matuidi with him.

 

United do this consistently. They play Sancho in a completely different way than he did at Dortmund, and then people are confused with what the problem is. Yes, they overpaid for Wan-Bissaka, and got a low-block CB in Maguire when they wanted to play attacking and with a high-line. Southgate is a coward, so Maguire gets to enjoy the cover of CBs with him and two defensive minded mids in Phillips and Rice in front of him. They bought van de Beek but did not want to use him in a way that made sense, and he wasn't cheap either.

 

If you're going to spend big on a player, make sure to do it so that they are doing the same thing for you that made you spend big. It's the same with Tuchel. Tuchel has not improved a single attacking player at Chelsea. I hate Lukaku, hate him, but people talking about his failure with Chelsea but they absolve Tuchel. It baffles me. Conte got the best outta Lukaku, hell, Lukaku scored more in the league for West Brom than he ever did for Inter, so it's not about "EPL tax," it's about getting players like Werner, Havertz, Pulisic, Ziyech, and not having a system or style that suits any of them. Lukaku, on the counter, is deadly. He's faster than I thought, his touch suddenly is sharp on the counter, but if you have slow, methodical, build-up play, he just doesn't do it.

 

Belgium use him on the counter! Everyone seemed to figure it out, except Tuchel. And I'd give Tuchel the benefit of the doubt if he didn't have such a terrible track record with every attacker. Havertz is doing okay, great, but you didn't pay 80m or whatever for okay.

 

Which gets me onto Howe. I think he might actually be one of the most refined English tacticians around. Graham Potter isn't bad either, but I think Howe has a pretty unique style. When I was asked about Paqueta, I talked about how I saw him--and at first, I thought: "why would they even want him?" and then when I did a little digging into Howe's style, Paqueta actually made sense, a lot of sense. I wonder if you guys are going to bet on Joelinton, instead, as it seems he has transitioned into a midfielder. The key for transfers isn't about names, it's about how you use them--and more importantly: develop them.

 

Botman needs development. I've watched a lot of him, and Milan played Lille in the EL two years ago. He's not that fast, but he's aggressive, and most importantly: he wins his duels, consistently, and he isn't a fluke about it. Where Botman needs the most work is his marking. This season, Lille were a shambles, and sometimes I wonder if Botman was covering for other's mistakes, whether it was a breakdown in his partners, and at the same time, he also was shielded heavily with Djalo (a former Milan product) who is a CB masquerading as a LB. Against Chelsea, in the first leg, in the first 20 minutes, Botman was shredded apart. So, you're going to need to be patient with him. The talent is there, he's strong, he's fast (enough)--I have recently become a huge proponent of ultra speedy CBs with our pairing so maybe I'm too obsessed with speed in my CB (I used to not care as much)--what you're buying is essentially VVD. He is the same style of defender.

 

But he's going to need time. He's really young, and when it comes to defending, physically, as in, tackles, headers (he's amazing in the air), getting stuck-in, I don't think you're going to need to teach him much. It's in his marking where he needs work, and more importantly, he needs to be more disciplined when switching from the zone to man-marking. These things can all be taught. Maldini was asked like a year-or-two ago what he looks for in a defender, he said something like (I'm paraphrasing): "I look for courage and their ability to win their duels, everything else, we can teach."

 

Botman has courage, because he left Ajax when he was young, and he's got the natural defensive skill, he sees what the attacker is going to do--what he needs to learn is all off-the-ball, and you're going to need to be patient with him. CB and CDM (regista) are the two positions where youth rarely thrive because of the complexity and cerebral aspects of the positions, and why older players are able to stay in those positions far longer than others.

 

Lol, I'm so sorry about all this, I don't really talk to friendly EPL fans online, so excuse my exuberant diatribes that I hope you see as just my thoughts as an addition to your point, rather than some snotty counter-point.

Nailed it.

 

Great teams are built with a style in mind, they sign players to fill defined roles. Liverpool do this very well, so do City for the most part. Bobby Robson did it here.

 

Man Utd/Chelsea just seem enamored with whichever shiny new thing they can get their hands on and flash the cash without any idea how the player is going to fit their system or how the manager wants to set up. 

[The Prophet]

Botman didn't want to join us, but he immediately agreed to join the same day Lille accepted our offer and will be flying over three days later for his medical. We should move on.

[KaKa]

2 hours ago, Kid Icarus said:

The obsession with him is infinitely more embarrassing than him tbf 

 

I can't believe the way people keep going on about him man. I honestly can't    

 

 

[Hanshithispantz]

I unironically like him 

 

I would never actually watch his content but it's pretty obvious he's self-aware at this point.

 

The best thing about him is all of the wannabe ITK accounts trying to take the piss out of him, as if he isn't raking it in doing something he loves whilst they're 40-odd year old, playing make-believe on the internet for zero financial gain.

 

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by Hanshithispantz

[Happinesstan]

3 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said:

I unironically like him 

 

I would never actually watch his content but it's pretty obvious he's self-aware at this point.

 

The best thing about him is all of the wannabe ITK accounts trying to take the piss out of him, as if he isn't raking it in doing something he loves whilst they're 40-odd year old, playing make-believe on the internet for zero finantial gain.

 

 

 

Yeah. He needs a thick skin to be a journalist and he's obviously got that.

[Milanista]

45 minutes ago, hoppaz said:

@Milanista what is your thoughts on Alessio Romagnoli? We are linked with him as a free agent.

If you are buying Botman, you won't sign Romagnoli. They're the same player. Left-footed CBs who can pass very well. I mean it, very well.

 

Romagnoli was supposed to be the next great Italian CB. We bought him when he was very young. He stayed with us during our banter period, was better than Bonucci when he was here, became our captain, turned down huge offers from Chelsea and other big clubs to stick with us. His development stagnated a bit, don't think he got called up by Italy when he should have, but he was expected to be the leader of Milan, being made captain at 24 would be hard on anyone, let alone a club that was (at that point) spending a lot of money, and still struggling.

 

He was compared to Nesta. Like Nesta, he is a boyhood Lazio fan who loved Milan, he wore Nesta's 13 shirt, so the pressure was there, and to be honest, I think he did very well his first few years here, in a team that was poorly constructed. He also wasn't being developed, new managers all the time. When Pioli came in, he looked like he was finally being settled, because in Jan. of 2020, we got Simon Kjaer, who I did not think would help, but he played at a world-class level, truly, world-class (which I define as being top 10 in your position, in the world) and Romagnoli did well next to him. Many thought Romagnoli finally had his mentor. We started playing a high-line. Suicidal high line, actually. Romagnoli struggled with that.

 

But in 20/21 he had a very poor second half of the season and then we got Tomori (Jan of 21) and he was displaced by Tomori. Didn't complain. Professional. He had a bad Jan-May '21 run.

 

In 21/22, he was determined to fight for his place. He was third choice CB, behind Kjaer and Tomori. Romagnoli was slaughtered for his 20/21 performances, and he actually came out with his best form when called upon in 21/22. Then he had a nightmare game against Sassuolo, where he literally fell flat on his face after being bamboozled by Berardi. Milan fans have written him off, they think he's terrible, even though he was very good outside of that performance. Like, excellent. Against Inter, where we won 2-1, Milan fans seem to forget that he was back there because Tomori had a minor surgery.

 

Romagnoli then had a groin strain, which pushed Kalulu full time in the second half of 21/22, and we were one of the strongest defensive sides in Europe with Kalulu and Tomori.

 

Romagnoli is a class defender, his positioning is very good, not perfect, but very good. He's not afraid, gets stuck in, but he's got a major weakness: he is slow. Actually slow. This is why the Nesta comparisons never made sense, because Nesta was fast. If you want to compare Romagnoli to Nesta, perhaps when Nesta was in his last year, his knees were a problem, and he had to rely on his guile. But even then, Nesta's positioning is what allowed him to compensate for his lack of pace at that age. Romagnoli does not have that. Romagnoli might be like many other Italian CBs who has a renaissance once he turns 30, like Barzagli, who until he turned 30, was widely seen as a laughing stock of a defender for his career, and his inclusion in the 2006 World Cup team as a funny trivia fact.

 

Most Milan fans appreciate him as a captain, as a professional, and that he stuck with Milan when he had every reason to leave. His lack of pace is what killed him, because Lukaku destroyed him. Lukaku shoved him around like he was playing against his little brother. Milan fans have fixated on his errors, which aren't anywhere near Maguire-type errors, but are treated as such.

 

I will be honest, the biggest reason that most Milan fans were indifferent to Botman was because they play very similarly. Botman is faster than Romagnoli, there's no doubt about that. If Romagnoli had pace, he would be an incredible defender, but, "if my grandmother had wheels..." but there's a very good defender in there, the problem is, he can't function in a high-line. He is a low-block defender. Elite, actually. But if you put him in an open field, with a high line, like we do, he can be torn apart. In my opinion, he would be perfect for Allegri's Juve. They play with a low-block, and the fact they haven't been linked is bizarre. The rumors are that he will be agreeing with Lazio, his boyhood dream. There are rumors now that he might re-sign with Milan, but, I would be surprised at that.

 

I went past the first sentence because without development, Botman can become like Romagnoli. Development of young players is more important than transfers. Romagnoli, unfortunately, has not developed, but he has all the tools, even with his severe lack of pace. His lack of pace is why I don't think he would be a good fit for the EPL. I don't usually buy into the whole thing about the EPL being special or whatever, but in Romagnoli's case, he could only play in Spain (for Atletico) or for Juve, he can't be in aggressive, proactive sides. That's the worry with Botman--but, to be fair to him, in 20/21, Lille were usually on the front-foot, attacking teams, and he was fine. He's faster than Romagnoli, but I don't think he's as good of a passer. He's stronger than Romagnoli, though, but it's the speed that is the big difference here.

 

As you can tell, I'm avoiding very important work by writing these posts lol.

[Happinesstan]

There are plenty of well established journos that would have lashed out.

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

1 hour ago, Milanista said:

My apologies. I guess for us Newcastle is the part of your club's name that sticks in our minds.

 

For example, no one in Italy calls Milan, "AC Milan" or "AC." Milan is known as "Meelan" like an Italian saying the English word for the city (Italian: "Milano" - English: "Milan")--because our club was founded by an Englishman, and the name "Milan" stuck.

 

Inter Milan is known simply as "Inter" and their full name is "Internazionale Milano."

 

Interestingly our American owners are really pushing the "AC Milan" bit more, which I suspect is to ensure trademark protection, as they would have trouble getting it for the name of the city, but as "AC Milan" they can.

 

I really need to shut my mouth. Sorry for the insult, it was unintentional.

 

Didnt/Dont you have a cricket team as well?

[Milanista]

2 minutes ago, Super Duper Branko Strupar said:

 

Didnt/Dont you have a cricket team as well?

Initially it was a cricket and football club, but the football part took off. Like Genoa, Italy's oldest club, cricket was part of the early clubs foundation, but did not continue for very long.

[Happinesstan]

Could be an idea for a weekend away. A cricket match against our friends in Milan.

[RodneyCisse]

That video is insane, imagine popping in to the shop today and seeing that catwalk.

[Hanshithispantz]

4 hours ago, STM said:

 

 

Fucking gets me everytime. 

 

 

 

This is actually proper funny like, I've watched it about 20 times 

 

I'm like 70% convinced he's just flawlessly playing a character.

 

[Guest]

 

[hoppaz]

1 hour ago, Milanista said:

If you are buying Botman, you won't sign Romagnoli. They're the same player. Left-footed CBs who can pass very well. I mean it, very well.

 

Romagnoli was supposed to be the next great Italian CB. We bought him when he was very young. He stayed with us during our banter period, was better than Bonucci when he was here, became our captain, turned down huge offers from Chelsea and other big clubs to stick with us. His development stagnated a bit, don't think he got called up by Italy when he should have, but he was expected to be the leader of Milan, being made captain at 24 would be hard on anyone, let alone a club that was (at that point) spending a lot of money, and still struggling.

 

He was compared to Nesta. Like Nesta, he is a boyhood Lazio fan who loved Milan, he wore Nesta's 13 shirt, so the pressure was there, and to be honest, I think he did very well his first few years here, in a team that was poorly constructed. He also wasn't being developed, new managers all the time. When Pioli came in, he looked like he was finally being settled, because in Jan. of 2020, we got Simon Kjaer, who I did not think would help, but he played at a world-class level, truly, world-class (which I define as being top 10 in your position, in the world) and Romagnoli did well next to him. Many thought Romagnoli finally had his mentor. We started playing a high-line. Suicidal high line, actually. Romagnoli struggled with that.

 

But in 20/21 he had a very poor second half of the season and then we got Tomori (Jan of 21) and he was displaced by Tomori. Didn't complain. Professional. He had a bad Jan-May '21 run.

 

In 21/22, he was determined to fight for his place. He was third choice CB, behind Kjaer and Tomori. Romagnoli was slaughtered for his 20/21 performances, and he actually came out with his best form when called upon in 21/22. Then he had a nightmare game against Sassuolo, where he literally fell flat on his face after being bamboozled by Berardi. Milan fans have written him off, they think he's terrible, even though he was very good outside of that performance. Like, excellent. Against Inter, where we won 2-1, Milan fans seem to forget that he was back there because Tomori had a minor surgery.

 

Romagnoli then had a groin strain, which pushed Kalulu full time in the second half of 21/22, and we were one of the strongest defensive sides in Europe with Kalulu and Tomori.

 

Romagnoli is a class defender, his positioning is very good, not perfect, but very good. He's not afraid, gets stuck in, but he's got a major weakness: he is slow. Actually slow. This is why the Nesta comparisons never made sense, because Nesta was fast. If you want to compare Romagnoli to Nesta, perhaps when Nesta was in his last year, his knees were a problem, and he had to rely on his guile. But even then, Nesta's positioning is what allowed him to compensate for his lack of pace at that age. Romagnoli does not have that. Romagnoli might be like many other Italian CBs who has a renaissance once he turns 30, like Barzagli, who until he turned 30, was widely seen as a laughing stock of a defender for his career, and his inclusion in the 2006 World Cup team as a funny trivia fact.

 

Most Milan fans appreciate him as a captain, as a professional, and that he stuck with Milan when he had every reason to leave. His lack of pace is what killed him, because Lukaku destroyed him. Lukaku shoved him around like he was playing against his little brother. Milan fans have fixated on his errors, which aren't anywhere near Maguire-type errors, but are treated as such.

 

I will be honest, the biggest reason that most Milan fans were indifferent to Botman was because they play very similarly. Botman is faster than Romagnoli, there's no doubt about that. If Romagnoli had pace, he would be an incredible defender, but, "if my grandmother had wheels..." but there's a very good defender in there, the problem is, he can't function in a high-line. He is a low-block defender. Elite, actually. But if you put him in an open field, with a high line, like we do, he can be torn apart. In my opinion, he would be perfect for Allegri's Juve. They play with a low-block, and the fact they haven't been linked is bizarre. The rumors are that he will be agreeing with Lazio, his boyhood dream. There are rumors now that he might re-sign with Milan, but, I would be surprised at that.

 

I went past the first sentence because without development, Botman can become like Romagnoli. Development of young players is more important than transfers. Romagnoli, unfortunately, has not developed, but he has all the tools, even with his severe lack of pace. His lack of pace is why I don't think he would be a good fit for the EPL. I don't usually buy into the whole thing about the EPL being special or whatever, but in Romagnoli's case, he could only play in Spain (for Atletico) or for Juve, he can't be in aggressive, proactive sides. That's the worry with Botman--but, to be fair to him, in 20/21, Lille were usually on the front-foot, attacking teams, and he was fine. He's faster than Romagnoli, but I don't think he's as good of a passer. He's stronger than Romagnoli, though, but it's the speed that is the big difference here.

 

As you can tell, I'm avoiding very important work by writing these posts lol.

Thanks I guess that is why Youtube has a lot of scouting action of him without crowds as he was not always in the first team. Nesta was a brilliant defender and I actually liked him when he came and commentated for the BBC a few year back. He spoke excellent English which was quite a surprise for someone who played in Italy mostly and I know in the MLS for a short period.

 

 

Edited June 25, 2022 by hoppaz

[The Prophet]

XB https://www.nufcblog.co.uk/2022/01/04/scout-report-a-closer-look-at-top-toon-targets-sven-botman-kieran-trippier/

 

Another CB who is comfortable at progressing the ball up the pitch will be great when the onus us on us to dominate the ball. Though I'm sure we're still going to strongly utilise the counter press next season.

[Shadow Puppets]

2 hours ago, Hanshithispantz said:

I unironically like him 

 

I would never actually watch his content but it's pretty obvious he's self-aware at this point.

 

The best thing about him is all of the wannabe ITK accounts trying to take the piss out of him, as if he isn't raking it in doing something he loves whilst they're 40-odd year old, playing make-believe on the internet for zero finantial gain.

 

 

 

I agree with your sentiment, but he’s making no money like. Perhaps a couple of hundred quid a month, max, from YouTube.

[Numbers]

6 minutes ago, Shadow Puppets said:

I agree with your sentiment, but he’s making no money like. Perhaps a couple of hundred quid a month, max, from YouTube.

 

[Dr Jinx]

2 minutes ago, Shadow Puppets said:

I agree with your sentiment, but he’s making no money like. Perhaps a couple of hundred quid a month, max, from YouTube.

See that was True Geordie as well, he used to do those Mike Ashley rant videos like he was the biggest fan going, then as soon as he got the fancy studio and stooges to back him up, I’ve quite literally heard him say.. “well I’m not exactly a die hard football fan”.

 

But the main difference between them is that I’d happily go for a pint with TG, I’d want to get a restraining order again the other lad.

 

There’s no way he’s playing a character, it’s like saying that about Michael Owen, that he just decided to be the king of cringe. Nah, proper creepy behaviour.

[Shadow Puppets]

4 minutes ago, Numbers said:

 

Aye… it’ll be much closer to the lower end of those estimates (or below).

 

Source: I work with several decent sized YouTube channels as part of my job, and unless you’re pulling in several hundred thousand views per video, with daily videos, you’re barely covering your costs.

[Numbers]

2 minutes ago, Shadow Puppets said:

Aye… it’ll be much closer to the lower end of those estimates (or below).

 

Source: I work with several decent sized YouTube channels as part of my job, and unless you’re pulling in several hundred thousand views per video, with daily videos, you’re barely covering your costs.

Yep 100%

[Fantail Breeze]

26,000 subscribers is tiny in the online influencer market.

[Numbers]

Just now, Fantail Breeze said:

26,000 subscribers is tiny in the online influencer market.

Its possible Burnsie is 25000 of his followers.

[BonesJones]

On the topic, my favourite to watch is Roobenstein.

 

https://youtube.com/c/Roobenstein

[Weezertron]

7 hours ago, BonesJones said:

On the topic, my favourite to watch is Roobenstein.

 

https://youtube.com/c/Roobenstein

 

I watch him too. I get a good guy vibe from him, atleast. 

[Guest]

Has to be given the 27 shirt?