Sven Botman: targeting January return (Howe)

[Dr Jinx]

Just now, madras said:

Every manager plays players through injury. Every player plays with knocks.

There’s a difference between a knock, ie a bruised shin or something and a potential ACL tear.

 

Even to a layman it was obvious that Botman wasn’t right on his return. Howe should have held him back.. this season was pretty much a write off by the time he was returning anyway so why take that risk.

[Yorkie]

4 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

He has admitted that he is playing Longstaff who is carrying an injury. Don’t think it’s mad to suggest he’s doing it with other players either. I don’t think anyone is blameless in this injury crisis this season.

 

Playing someone who's carrying an injury is one thing; playing someone who is likely to completely rupture their ACL is another. I'm sure if he had the knowledge that that was a very real possibility, he wouldn't have played him. 

[madras]

2 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

I don’t get the argument you are trying to create ? If a manage openly admits to playing an injured player and they then pick up another injury he shares part of the blame?

But they all have to. I'd love to see the state of some line ups if players carrying knocks weren't to play. Squad sizes would have to increase.

[Yorkie]

2 minutes ago, Dr Jinx said:

There’s a difference between a knock, ie a bruised shin or something and a potential ACL tear.

 

Even to a layman it was obvious that Botman wasn’t right on his return. Howe should have held him back.. this season was pretty much a write off by the time he was returning anyway so why take that risk.

 

Sick of reading this, mind. As if anyone at the top of the game thinks like this when they're still in the FA Cup and still in European contention.

[The Prophet]

It's common practice for players to be playing with knocks and minor injuries, it's par for the course.

 

That said, the period between November and January, when we were down to the bear bones, we clearly took a couple of risks to get a competative eleven out. Players being overplayed and brought back earlier from injury than they would have been normally.

 

It is interesting to see a few of the lads dismiss fatigue as an excuse back then, wonder why we're still picking up injuries now,  whilst completely ignoring the context they've occured in.

[SUPERTOON]

Just now, madras said:

But they all have to. I'd love to see the state of some line ups if players carrying knocks weren't to play. Squad sizes would have to increase.

I’m not laying the blame fully on Howe, I just think to say he doesn’t take any is wrong. The longstaff one as an example, he’s having injections in his foot to get through games. Miley could play instead. 

[madras]

3 minutes ago, Dr Jinx said:

There’s a difference between a knock, ie a bruised shin or something and a potential ACL tear.

 

Even to a layman it was obvious that Botman wasn’t right on his return. Howe should have held him back.. this season was pretty much a write off by the time he was returning anyway so why take that risk.

I'm guessing they didn't think there was a potential ACL tear.

[The Prophet]

Just now, SUPERTOON said:

I’m not laying the blame fully on Howe, I just think to say he doesn’t take any is wrong. The longstaff one as an example, he’s having injections in his foot to get through games. Miley could play instead. 

 

The Longstaff stuff is quite normal (not that it should be). Like you I'd rather see Miley given a go though.

[madras]

Just now, SUPERTOON said:

I’m not laying the blame fully on Howe, I just think to say he doesn’t take any is wrong. The longstaff one as an example, he’s having injections in his foot to get through games. Miley could play instead. 

He's already said he doesn't want to push Miley too much and players have played through injury with injections for years. What chance he'd done what you want and Miley picks up an injury, would it be he burned him out ?

[SUPERTOON]

Just now, The Prophet said:

 

The Longstaff stuff is quite normal (not that it should be). Like you I'd rather see Miley given a go though.

I do expect now Anderson is fit for him to get in ahead of Longstaff for a while mind. 

[madras]

Just now, SUPERTOON said:

I do expect now Anderson is fit for him to get in ahead of Longstaff for a while mind. 

Possibly...... but neither of them look suited to that right hand side role.

[The Prophet]

Just now, SUPERTOON said:

I do expect now Anderson is fit for him to get in ahead of Longstaff for a while mind. 

 

Only think that might stop him I'd he likes to play left side. Miley seems quite capable on either side.

[SUPERTOON]

2 minutes ago, madras said:

He's already said he doesn't want to push Miley too much and players have played through injury with injections for years. What chance he'd done what you want and Miley picks up an injury, would it be he burned him out ?

We probably aren’t going to agree with each other so I’ll leave it there. My main point was that I think across the season everyone at the club shares a portion of blame. Whilst accepting we have had horrendous luck on the injury front, I do think more could have been done to avoid it being as bad as it has been. No doubt lessons will have been learnt to avoid a repeat.

[duo]

On 20/03/2024 at 21:54, duo said:

What a mess up - clubs medical team have totally messed this up.  He never looked fit when he returned and clearly wasn't.

He is spot on !!

 

 

Edited March 23 by duo

[Thumbheed]

32 minutes ago, Yorkie said:

It's stupid to level anything at Howe, like. His team selections are clearly evidence-based. If the evidence is unreliable or incorrect, that's not his fault. 

 

It's a pity that - for all the good Howe's done - it isn't enough to earn the assumption (from some) that he won't play someone if there's a demonstrable risk that it'll cause a career-jeopardising injury. 

 

Re the injury, I think it's possible that there's been an oversight somewhere, but it's equally possible that it's genuinely just a peculiar case and the lad has been unfortunate. That thing about some specialists thinking he'd ruptured it and some thinking he hadn't just seems absolutely wild to me. I find it incredible that such a thing can be misdiagnosed, which supports the view that it's a really weird case. 

 

There is also the less belligerent reason, and it's an entirely fresh injury. 

 

I'm firmly behind Howe but I do believe he's had a significant part to play in our injury crisis by virtue of his squad management. 

 

Rafa was the only manager I can remember who had a marked affect on our injury list and made me realise the impact of good squad management.

 

Perhaps it's naivety, perhaps it's just a case of wrong injuries at the wrong time or perhaps it is is just freak bad luck (although I refer to his last season at Bournemouth) but something needs to change and I don't think it's the medical staff which is a lazy conclusion imo.

 

 

 

 

[Playmaker]

Ffs devastating news. this season has been insane for injuries.
 

 

I’m starting to think our medical team are undercover Mackems.

[duo]

It is an utter disaster this - gutted.

[Amir_9]

If the medical team and Howe were aware of this being a real risk to a high enough level then it has been a very short sighted decision to play him given what our injuries have been like so far this year.

[The Prophet]

We've had someone with knowledge of the situation repeatedly tell us his scans were coming back clear.

[Vinny Green Balls]

2 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

We've had someone with knowledge of the situation repeatedly tell us his scans were coming back clear.

I hope he’s still alive 

[McDog]

5 minutes ago, Amir_9 said:

If the medical team and Howe were aware of this being a real risk to a high enough level then it has been a very short sighted decision to play him given what our injuries have been like so far this year.

 

 

Exactly. So clearly the scans they have reviewed did not indicate that and if someone who has reviewed them here and is competent enough to interpret them disagrees then feel free to make declarative statements purporting why you feel their decisions were professional incompetence.

[Upthemags]

5 minutes ago, McDog said:

 

 

Exactly. So clearly the scans they have reviewed did not indicate that and if someone who has reviewed them here and is competent enough to interpret them disagrees then feel free to make declarative statements purporting why you feel their decisions were professional incompetence.

Mate, the interview with Sven from January indicates that (more than) one doctor saw a fully ruptured ACL. Having your 24 year old crown jewel play through an injury as serious as that (one that oftentimes can outright end a career), while that injury is clearly having a massive impact on his ability to contribute positively to the team, is outright negligence/incompetence.

[The College Dropout]

59 minutes ago, madras said:

So if every manager does they all should be blamed ?

Yes. Elite foootball is about performance not about health. When both don’t work out the coach shoulders some responsibility.  
 

Wilson said he rushed back from injury too early this season too. 

[Vinny Green Balls]

Shadow Puppets would probably challenge that it more than one doctor actuallly said that it was a fully ruptured ACL

 

 

Edited March 20 by Vinny Green Balls

[McDog]

Just now, Upthemags said:

Mate, the interview with Sven from January indicates that (more than) one doctor saw a fully ruptured ACL. Having your 24 year old crown jewel play through an injury as serious as that (one that oftentimes can outright end a career), while that injury is clearly having a massive impact on his ability to contribute positively to the team, is outright negligence/incompetence.

 

 

Nobody in their right mind plays a player with a fully ruptured ACL.