More transfer rumours

[Mazzy]

150m seems like a reasonable amount considering everything. If rumours are to be believed we'd have spent well over that in Janury if certain bids of ours been accepted.

 

3 major signings alone (Paqueta/Nunez/Henderson) would see us over 100m so add to that a couple of youngsters and a experienced Prem player and you're over at 150m.

 

Amanda stated what their aim was and if they want to achieve Champs League qualification and a Premier League title in 5 years they will have to spend roughly 100m every summer for the next 2/3 seasons.

[The College Dropout]

3 minutes ago, Mazzy said:

150m seems like a reasonable amount considering everything. If rumours are to be believed we'd have spent well over that in Janury if certain bids of ours been accepted.

 

3 major signings alone (Paqueta/Nunez/Henderson) would see us over 100m so add to that a couple of youngsters and a experienced Prem player and you're over at 150m.

 

Amanda stated what their aim was and if they want to achieve Champs League qualification and a Premier League title in 5 years they will have to spend roughly 100m every summer for the next 2/3 seasons.

Yeh that's not enough.

[Shak]

Definitely some post-Ashley trauma in here

 

I'm fairly certain we'll spend a shitload this summer and my trousers are down and I'm ready for it.

[macphisto]

8 minutes ago, UpTheToon said:

They also got £100m in for one player

It doesn't matter, Villa still spent the money to improve the team. They also spent a lot the season before that too. 

 

The only things we need to be concerned about are:

1) Getting value for money

2) Conducting as much scouting as possible on our targets

3) Signing players with a cohesive strategy in mind with regards to the overall style of the team 

 

I would not be worried about breaking the wage structure for the right players. This is now by far the best club any of our existing players will ever play for, if they want to leave then see you later. They're not going to get more anywhere else or have a better chance of competing in the future.

[sixx]

1 hour ago, Kanji said:

I disagree with you wholeheartedly, I think they will spend a fuck ton and aren’t going to give any hints what the budget is or could be. I severely doubt there is a true firm number. The only way to grow this club is to be opportunistic and if there’s a way they can secure several top names they will do it. 

You’re essentially describing Man Utd’s approach to transfer the last few years which I think we can all agree hasn’t been very sensible.

 

I’m very unsure we can just ‘spend’ our way towards the top 6 or so. If you look at Man City’s transfer track record since their takeover it’s like they struck gold at least with a couple of signings each year and to be fair there hasn’t been many expensive Mangala-like flops. Why has it worked out so well for them while it hasn’t for Man Utd?  There are definitely some decisve factors behind the scenes in term of recruitment which I can’t really put my finger on. Why didn’t Chelsea recognize Salah’s and de Bruyne’s talent? I’m not entirely sure it’s very much down to the manager in charge each time as Citeh have had some turnover in management since the takeover yet always consistantly brilliant transfers. 
 

I’ve seriously no idea how to spend our newfound money and I’ve really no idea either how much money we are actually capable of spending. All I really want to know is what it really is deep down behind the scenes that decides a great recruitment strategy that City undoubtedly have. Everton have spent half a billion since their takeover and Man Utd have spent a billion since Fergie. Both clubs are worse off. Maybe it’s down to a great technical director. I barely even know what these guys even do. 

[Guest HTT II]

3 minutes ago, sixx said:

You’re essentially describing Man Utd’s approach to transfer the last few years which I think we can all agree hasn’t been very sensible.

 

I’m very unsure we can just ‘spend’ our way towards the top 6 or so. If you look at Man City’s transfer track record since their takeover it’s like they struck gold at least with a couple of signings each year and to be fair there hasn’t been many expensive Mangala-like flops. Why has it worked out so well for them while it hasn’t for Man Utd?  There are definitely some decisve factors behind the scenes in term of recruitment which I can’t really put my finger on. Why didn’t Chelsea recognize Salah’s and de Bruyne’s talent? I’m not entirely sure it’s very much down to the manager in charge each time as Citeh have had some turnover in management since the takeover yet always consistantly brilliant transfers. 
 

I’ve seriously no idea how to spend our newfound money and I’ve really no idea either how much money we are actually capable of spending. All I really want to know is what it really is deep down behind the scenes that decides a great recruitment strategy that City undoubtedly have. Everton have spent half a billion since their takeover and Man Utd have spent a billion since Fergie. Both clubs are worse off. Maybe it’s down to a great technical director. I barely even know what these guys even do. 

It’s down to the manager…

[Mazzy]

15 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Yeh that's not enough.

 

Not enough to win the Premier League no, because we are way behind Liverpool and Man City who will be winning it for the next few years. But I think there is a good possibility if everything goes as it should and the investment is there every summer that we can qualify for Champs League in 5 yrs. 150m this summer and then 3x100m for the next 3 summer windows would see the squad almost entirely overhauled. ? 

[macphisto]

Just now, HTT II said:

It’s down to the manager…

I don't think so, obviously helps but also the fact that Man City are outward looking and have hired some of the best people in the business has a lot to do with it. I suspect their use of data, like Liverpool, is good too.

 

Man City essentially looked at the best in class not long after their takeover, Barcelona, and hired their whole backroom team. Txiki Begiristain, Director of Football at Barcelona from 2003-2010 and Ferran Soriano Vice-President of Barcelona from 2003-2008 both joined Man City in 2012. 

 

Man U on the other hand, though a huge club, are very insular and are not prepared to put money into the infrastructure of the club (Ashley on a much bigger scale). It says it all that their Technical Director is Darren Fletcher and their Director of Football, John Murtough, was an internal appointment. Going back over the last few years, Carrick, Phelan and Ole were also prominent. As a club it's institutionally stuck in the past and stale. I'm not saying you shouldn't have ex-players around the club but you need fresh outside ideas too.

[Hovagod]

This idea that we can’t spend our way to the top…how else are we going to do it?

 

Feel like January tipped our hand a little. If we had not been in bother think we might have taken it slowly so as to mislead others of our true summer intentions, as it was we spent twenty five million on Chris Wood. We’re not going to be shy in the transfer window, we will spend shitloads

[macphisto]

1 minute ago, Hovagod said:

This idea that we can’t spend our way to the top…how else are we going to do it?

 

Feel like January tipped our hand a little. If we had not been in bother think we might have taken it slowly so as to mislead others of our true summer intentions, as it was we spent twenty five million on Chris Wood. We’re not going to be shy in the transfer window, we will spend shitloads

That and investment behind the scenes where they have gone and, from what I've read, recruited in Ashworth one of the best Directors of Football out there. 

[Awaymag]

get signings in so we can challenge for 6-8 position and Europa spot.   If in Jan we are ahead or behind, maybe a little boost.    Either way I can't wait....going be so exciting!

[Hovagod]

1 minute ago, Awaymag said:

get signings in so we can challenge for 6-8 position and Europa spot.   If in Jan we are ahead or behind, maybe a little boost.    Either way I can't wait....going be so exciting!

Imagine how excited we will all be going into the start of the season in August. Will be Coventry ‘95 levels of anticipation. 

[STM]

Man City have about 14 elite players+ other squad players like Ake.

 

We currently have 2 elite players, in Bruno and Trippier.

 

If we can add 2 Elite players every window, that would be good going IMO. That's not saying we only sign 2 players, that's saying we sign players who can benefit the squad during the building process and taking into account that not every transfer works, 2 stars sounds reasonable.

 

Man City went through quite a few good players, who weren't quite elite level on their way to success.

[sixx]

16 minutes ago, HTT II said:

It’s down to the manager…

 

I think you could be right in the sense that it's not so much about the transfer itself but about the player's development that happens afterwards. I recall some serious doubts about Van Dijk signing for Liverpool and de Bruyne signing for Man City. I also don't recall that much excitement about Liverpool signing Salah or Bale signing with Spurs or when Bernardo Silva signed for City. There's also definitely an element of luck in this as I recall Salah not even being Liverpool's second or third option in that transfer window. At the end of the day a succesful transfer strategy is an extremely elusive thing but I do hope that the current NUFC brass have a better idea of it than I do 

[Tiresias]

We will spend our way to the top, but I don't think it is going to be splurged. To get there you need top of the class backroom staff. You need facilities to attract players which we are a long way behind on and if we start giving out the mega wages now it will destroy the dressing room. Equally to appease financial fair play as feeble as it is we need to massively improve our commercial revenue. 

 

Until we are challenging for titles etc it will most likely (if we are sensible) be young prospects who are not yet finished product that the likes of real madrid etc wouldn't be after yet and really solid experienced players like Trippier and we will build up over several windows. 

 

If we went and bought Pogba nad a bunch of super high wages mercenaries in summer, not only would it stop us signing lots of more reasonable players, the squad would be unbalanced shit. 

 

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by Tiresias

[macphisto]

4 minutes ago, Awaymag said:

get signings in so we can challenge for 6-8 position and Europa spot.   If in Jan we are ahead or behind, maybe a little boost.    Either way I can't wait....going be so exciting!

Really no idea how the January window will pan out with the World Cup, the break is from the 14th November to 26th December. Clubs will essentially be making decisions in January based on their position from November.

[macphisto]

4 minutes ago, sixx said:

 

I think you could be right in the sense that it's not so much about the transfer itself but about the player's development that happens afterwards. I recall some serious doubts about Van Dijk signing for Liverpool and de Bruyne signing for Man City. I also don't recall that much excitement about Liverpool signing Salah or Bale signing with Spurs or when Bernardo Silva signed for City. There's also definitely an element of luck in this as I recall Salah not even being Liverpool's second or third option in that transfer window. At the end of the day a succesful transfer strategy is an extremely elusive thing but I do hope that the current NUFC brass have a better idea of it than I do 

Liverpool are renowned for their use of data and transfer committee, that is the main reason for their success in the transfer market. 

[macphisto]

10 minutes ago, Tiresias said:

We will spend our way to the top, but I don't think it is going to be splurged. To get there you need top of the class backroom staff. You need facilities to attract players which we are a long way behind on and if we start giving out the mega wages now it will destroy the dressing room. Equally to appease financial fair play as feeble as it is we need to massively improve our commercial revenue. 

 

Until we are challenging for titles etc it will most likely (if we are sensible) be young prospects who are not yet finished product that the likes of real madrid etc wouldn't be after yet and really solid experienced players like Trippier and we will build up over several windows. 

 

If we went and bought Pogba nad a bunch of super high wages mercenaries in summer, not only would it stop us signing lots of more reasonable players, the squad would be unbalanced shit. 

 

 

 

Irrespective of the club now and in the future, surely you would stay away from Pogba as he is now and those players in any circumstances? 

[The College Dropout]

Manchester City spent their way to the top. Yes they did it smartly but if their budget was the same as Leicester City…. They would be Leicester City. 
 

In their first full summer transfer window they spent £130m in 2009 all from premier league rivals.  That’s £200m+ in this era.  Including 

3 centreforwards and 2 centrebacks. sacked off their PFM for a proven winner. Finished 5th iirc. Losing out narrowly to Spurs. 
 

the next year they built the basis of their title winning side. Silva, Toure, Milner, Dzeko, Balotelli. Mostly from abroad. Finished 3rd.  Spent £170m.

 

 

City got to 4th by making their rivals weak. Bought starters at Villa (challenging for 4th at the time), Man U and Arsenal. Then supplemented with top quality from abroad. We should do the same thing.  
 

That’s £300m to finish 3rd in 2010.   With Hart, Kompany, Zabaleta already there. Decent saleable assets like Bellamy, Boateng and Nigel De Jong.  
 

 

Best case scenario. We spend £300m over 2 years in 2022-4, we’ll finish 8th.  We need to be aggressive. 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by The College Dropout

[The College Dropout]

Real Madrid consistently buy the best youngsters in the world ala Chelsea. And just sell em.  Hakimi, Odegaard.  The lucky few stay on and go to the first team eg Varane, Vini Jr. 

[Nine]

31 minutes ago, STM said:

Man City have about 14 elite players+ other squad players like Ake.

 

We currently have 2 elite players, in Bruno and Trippier.

 

If we can add 2 Elite players every window, that would be good going IMO. That's not saying we only sign 2 players, that's saying we sign players who can benefit the squad during the building process and taking into account that not every transfer works, 2 stars sounds reasonable.

 

Man City went through quite a few good players, who weren't quite elite level on their way to success.

 

 Might be a tad early to be calling Bruno elite but I know you mean. 

[The College Dropout]

29 minutes ago, sixx said:

 

I think you could be right in the sense that it's not so much about the transfer itself but about the player's development that happens afterwards. I recall some serious doubts about Van Dijk signing for Liverpool and de Bruyne signing for Man City. I also don't recall that much excitement about Liverpool signing Salah or Bale signing with Spurs or when Bernardo Silva signed for City. There's also definitely an element of luck in this as I recall Salah not even being Liverpool's second or third option in that transfer window. At the end of the day a succesful transfer strategy is an extremely elusive thing but I do hope that the current NUFC brass have a better idea of it than I do 

Yes we need to be smart but I remember those transfers differently. 
 

Van Dijk was regarded as at least the best defender outside the top sides. The fee was deemed astronomical but he was regarded as the best of the rest at least.  
 

Bale was a massive wonder kid and struggled with injuries. In that era Spurs gambled a lot on youth with major success in Berbatov, Carrick, Modric, Bale etc. but misses are inevitable too. We should adopt this strategy.  
 

KDB, Bernardo - highly regarded wonderkids. 

[STM]

18 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Manchester City spent their way to the top. Yes they did it smartly but if their budget was the same as Leicester City…. They would be Leicester City. 
 

In their first full summer transfer window they spent £130m in 2009 all from premier league rivals.  That’s £200m+ in this era.  Including 

3 centreforwards and 2 centrebacks. sacked off their PFM for a proven winner. Finished 5th iirc. Losing out narrowly to Spurs. 
 

the next year they built the basis of their title winning side. Silva, Toure, Milner, Dzeko, Balotelli. Mostly from abroad. Finished 3rd.  Spent £170m.

 

 

City got to 4th by making their rivals weak. Bought starters at Villa (challenging for 4th at the time), Man U and Arsenal. Then supplemented with top quality from abroad. We should do the same thing.  
 

That’s £300m to finish 3rd in 2010.   With Hart, Kompany, Zabaleta already there. Decent saleable assets like Bellamy, Boateng and Nigel De Jong.  
 

 

Best case scenario. We spend £300m over 2 years in 2022-4, we’ll finish 8th.  We need to be aggressive. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with your assessment of that era, but I disagree that what worked then will work now. As you said yourself, Villa were challenging for 5th. Where as now, Arsenal and Man Utd look likely to finish 5th and 6th.

 

As for weakening the "top 6" clubs, how do you suggest we do that? 130m for Harry Kane, who most probably wouldn't move to us? Why go after, say Bruno Fernandes or Odegard for example when we have already proven we can go to the French league and pay half the price for comparable players.

 

IMO, the elephant in the room is our commercial power. Right now we are financially weakened by having shite sponsors, no business direction (because of ashley) and very little coming into the club from other avenues.

 

My guess, and it's just a guess, is that our new owners have a two stage plan. Phase one is moving the club up the league within the confines of FFP, whilst building a massive commercial model, spending on infrastructure etc.  Once we get into Europe and start showing that we mean business, we can start going after big hitters, in the way that City took Sterling off Liverpool.

 

We have to prove to good players that this is a place to come and play football and we have already started that process.

[STM]

FWIW, you can absolutely be smart with money, whilst also being ambitious. Liverpool selling Coutinho and using the money to buy the best CB and best GK in PL is an example of that.

 

Salah and KDB are largely regarded as the two best players in the league but neither were on the radars of other top clubs, both had been let go by Chelsea and had scars next to their names to some degree. Both Liverpool and City pulled masterstrokes by ignoring their past.

[macphisto]

3 minutes ago, STM said:

FWIW, you can absolutely be smart with money, whilst also being ambitious. Liverpool selling Coutinho and using the money to buy the best CB and best GK in PL is an example of that.

 

Salah and KDB are largely regarded as the two best players in the league but neither were on the radars of other top clubs, both had been let go by Chelsea and had scars next to their names to some degree. Both Liverpool and City pulled masterstrokes by ignoring their past.

KDB was on the radar of a lot of top clubs back then. He went to Man City for over £50 million 7 years ago. That would easily be £100 million+ now.