Still not worthy of a thread

[ramirez]

15 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said:

English teams have won and lost plenty of CL finals since the 90’s

 

England still haven’t won anything on the international stage 

 

Maybe we’ve let too many of them pesky forrins play for our club sides 

 

yeah and France have won the lot with no european trophies since a dodgy one in 93, thus disproving that theory.  

[Astroblack]

10 minutes ago, ramirez said:

yeah and France have won the lot with no european trophies since a dodgy one in 93, thus disproving that theory.  

But their players played for the biggest sides in the world at the time winning and playing in the Champions League

 

Lizarazu - Bayern

Thuram - Juventus, Parma(1999)

Deschamps - Juventus

Henry - Arsenal

Trezeguet - Juve

Wiltord - Arsenal

Vieira - Arsenal

Petit - Arsenal

Zidane - Juventus, Real

Makelele - Real, Chelsea

Pires - Arsenal

 

This is straight off of the top of my head but I’m sure there are others and also relates to the 2018 winning team. 

 

 

 

 

Edited Sunday at 16:54 by Astroblack

[Stifler]

17 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said:

English teams have won and lost plenty of CL finals since the 90’s

 

England still haven’t won anything on the international stage 

 

Maybe we’ve let too many of them pesky forrins play for our club sides 

France got red up of their national team not doing anything, so starting in the 80’s they set up academies in every region of the country that was independent to their clubs. The aim was to win the World Cup, which they did in 1998, and obviously again in 2018.

 

Brazil have a culture of having players have access and playing Futsal and beach football, usually paid for by the government or local authorities.

 

Spain and Italy etc all have facilities for kids to play at free of charge.

 

England eventually looked at what France did, then built 1 academy, which most of the country can’t access, and is usually closed to the public due to a select few using it, as well as the national team, and visiting teams.

McDonalds and Mars have both funded new facilities for grassroots football, but it’s usually provided to non-league clubs who don’t let the general public use it.

Our government will give grants to the people who own Goals, and other 5 aside pitches, but charge people a minimum of £50 to use them.

The same applies local leisure centres, all behind an expensive paywall.

Kids in the U.K. are left to use back alleys, local parks where the facilities are rotten, or play on patches of grass that have no ball games signs up and around it, with Dorris waiting to report kids playing football as she asks why Kids these days sit in all day playing FIFA.

 

This is why we have a lack of talent, and why we have won fuck all at a national level.

[ramirez]

12 minutes ago, Astroblack said:

But their players played for the biggest sides in the world at the time winning and playing in the Champions League

 

Lizarazu - Bayern

Thuram - Juventus, Parma(1999)

Deschamps - Juventus

Henry - Arsenal

Trezeguet - Juve

Wiltord - Arsenal

Vieira - Arsenal

Petit - Arsenal

Zidane - Juventus, Real

Makelele - Real, Chelsea

Pires - Arsenal

 

This is straight off of the top of my head but I’m sure there are others and also relates to the 2018 winning team. 

 

 

 

 

 

true but Arsenal won nothing in Europe.  

 

I've always been of the opinion that English teams doing better only helps them really and makes it harder for us to catch them, the recent extra CL place could potentially swing it a bit.  Even then I could never cheer for Man United or Liverpool, probably Chelsea too.

[bobbydazzla]

12 minutes ago, Stifler said:

France got red up of their national team not doing anything, so starting in the 80’s they set up academies in every region of the country that was independent to their clubs. The aim was to win the World Cup, which they did in 1998, and obviously again in 2018.

 

Brazil have a culture of having players have access and playing Futsal and beach football, usually paid for by the government or local authorities.

 

Spain and Italy etc all have facilities for kids to play at free of charge.

 

England eventually looked at what France did, then built 1 academy, which most of the country can’t access, and is usually closed to the public due to a select few using it, as well as the national team, and visiting teams.

McDonalds and Mars have both funded new facilities for grassroots football, but it’s usually provided to non-league clubs who don’t let the general public use it.

Our government will give grants to the people who own Goals, and other 5 aside pitches, but charge people a minimum of £50 to use them.

The same applies local leisure centres, all behind an expensive paywall.

Kids in the U.K. are left to use back alleys, local parks where the facilities are rotten, or play on patches of grass that have no ball games signs up and around it, with Dorris waiting to report kids playing football as she asks why Kids these days sit in all day playing FIFA.

 

This is why we have a lack of talent, and why we have won fuck all at a national level.

But the argument was that if English clubs get to CL finals and win them, then cogito ergo sum, England national side will win an international trophy 

 

To hurrah England to glory we should all hurrah English teams in Europe, even if they’ve caused heartache for NUFC, their fans are cunts and loads of their players don’t even play for England

 

And I’m saying, absolutely not, fuck that.
 

And questioning the sanity of any Newcastle fan that ever wants Manchester United, Liverpool, Chelsea etc to win any game where the result is of no consequence to NUFC

 

 

Edited Sunday at 17:08 by bobbydazzla

[Stifler]

Just now, bobbydazzla said:

I know all that Stiffy 
 

But the argument was that if English clubs get to CL finals and win them, then cogito ergo sum, England national side will win an international trophy 

 

To hurrah England to glory we should all hurrah English teams in Europe, even if they’ve caused heartache for NUFC, their fans are cunts and loads of their players don’t even play for England

 

And I’m saying, absolutely not, fuck that.
 

And questioning the sanity of any Newcastle fan that ever wants Manchester United, Liverpool Chelsea etc to win any game where the result is of no consequence to NUFC

Fuck that, I couldn’t give a fuck about England.

Give me NUFC winning the League Cup over England winning the World Cup.

[bobbydazzla]

2 minutes ago, Stifler said:

Fuck that, I couldn’t give a fuck about England.

Give me NUFC winning the League Cup over England winning the World Cup.

Sames

 

Got zero interest in England

[Astroblack]

Just now, ramirez said:

true but Arsenal won nothing in Europe.  

 

I've always been of the opinion that English teams doing better only helps them really and makes it harder for us to catch them, the recent extra CL place could potentially swing it a bit.  Even then I could never cheer for Man United or Liverpool, probably Chelsea too.

But they competed in it, hell, they were 15 minutes away from winning it with 10 men. Point is, they competed in it and played against the best of the best strengthening up their mentality. 
 

My overall point is it requires a perfect storm to win an international major. A player playing in the CL and Europa League gives you a better chance of winning it. 

[bobbydazzla]

Would rather Newcastle got a win at Anfield than England win the World Cup 

[Astroblack]

1 minute ago, bobbydazzla said:

Would rather Newcastle got a win at Anfield than England win the World Cup 

So who do you support during the World Cup and Euros? 

[Fak]

Just now, Astroblack said:

So who do you support during the World Cup and Euros? 

Neeone really. 

[bobbydazzla]

6 minutes ago, Astroblack said:

So who do you support during the World Cup and Euros? 

No one. I usually don’t bother watching England  

 

I’m from Northumberland, all my ancestors are from the North East going back hundreds of years, I’ve lived on Tyneside most of my life 
 

So as English as it gets, but I couldn’t give a shit about the national side 

 

 

Edited Sunday at 17:22 by bobbydazzla

[Astroblack]

2 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said:

No one. I usually don’t even bother watching England  

 

I’m from Northumberland, all my ancestors are from the North East going back hundreds of years, I live in Newcastle
 

And I couldn’t give a shit about the national side 

 

 

 

You didn’t want England to beat Spain in the summer? Interesting. 

 

I don’t believe you. I think you’re being petty for the sake of this argument. 

[bobbydazzla]

11 minutes ago, Astroblack said:

You didn’t want England to beat Spain in the summer? Interesting. 

 

I don’t believe you. I think you’re being petty for the sake of this argument. 

Swear down on me nanna’s life I don’t support England, I have no interest in them at all (other than hoping NUFC players don’t get injured on international duty)

 

 

Edited Sunday at 17:40 by bobbydazzla

[Astroblack]

1 minute ago, bobbydazzla said:

Swear down on me nanna’s life I don’t support England, I have no interest in them at all (other than hoping NUFC players don’t get injured on international duty)

 

 

 

Haha, fair do’s. 

[Kaizero]

2 hours ago, bobbydazzla said:

I’m from Northumberland, all my ancestors are from the North East going back hundreds of years, I’ve lived on Tyneside most of my life 
 

So as English as it gets

 

Genuine question, but isn't there a form of inherent dislike of England in general from people having grown up in Northumberland and adjacent areas? As in "England = London/The South = England not caring about the North East"? 

 

Might just be me having misunderstood the political climate of England the time I've semi-followed it, but just never been amazed when North Eastern Englishmen say they don't support the national team  

[NE27]

3 minutes ago, Kaizero said:

 

Genuine question, but isn't there a form of inherent dislike of England in general from people having grown up in Northumberland and adjacent areas? As in "England = London/The South = England not caring about the North East"? 

 

Might just be me having misunderstood the political climate of England the time I've semi-followed it, but just never been amazed when North Eastern Englishmen say they don't support the national team  

 

I'd say that's a fair assessment.

 

It's generally the view in my circles.

[Rod]

2 minutes ago, Kaizero said:

 

Genuine question, but isn't there a form of inherent dislike of England in general from people having grown up in Northumberland and adjacent areas? As in "England = London/The South = England not caring about the North East"? 

 

Might just be me having misunderstood the political climate of England the time I've semi-followed it, but just never been amazed when North Eastern Englishmen say they don't support the national team  

I also don't have much interest in the England national team.  If they are on the telly then yeah I'll probably watch them.  When they win I normally give a nod of approval and when they lose I honestly couldn't give a shit.

[bobbydazzla]

12 minutes ago, Kaizero said:

 

Genuine question, but isn't there a form of inherent dislike of England in general from people having grown up in Northumberland and adjacent areas? As in "England = London/The South = England not caring about the North East"? 

 

Might just be me having misunderstood the political climate of England the time I've semi-followed it, but just never been amazed when North Eastern Englishmen say they don't support the national team  

Aye, you’re not wrong on that

 

Plenty of people round here feel very little affection for being “English” and their identity is regional not national  

 

But also plenty in the North East that love nowt better than a bit of patriotic pomp and will be fervent England fans

 

 

Edited Sunday at 20:07 by bobbydazzla

[TheBrownBottle]

Newcastle winning a corner is more exciting than the England team winning a game at a major tournament.  My dad still insists on calling England ‘London FC’.

 

I do still want England to win matches at major tournaments, but they’re more a passing distraction in lieu of ‘proper’ football.  I’m a Geordie first and foremost; I don’t really view myself too much through the prism of ‘Englishness’.  England have the feel of a side where I have a passing interest - I feel a degree of neutrality about their qualities (and I have a dislike of non-NUFC players anyway).  
 

So I genuinely think that England has a generational crop of talent at the moment and should be winning things, and can say this without this being a foaming-at-the-mouth Ing-ger-lund uber- fan.  I also thought that the ‘Golden Generation’ nonsense of the ‘00s was precisely that - nonsense.  That England haven’t won anything in my lifetime wasn’t the result of wasted talent - until the last few years.  If England haven’t won anything by 2030, then this has been a complete waste for which The FA should be held to account for their selection of manager(s). 

[TheBrownBottle]

12 hours ago, Stifler said:

France got red up of their national team not doing anything, so starting in the 80’s they set up academies in every region of the country that was independent to their clubs. The aim was to win the World Cup, which they did in 1998, and obviously again in 2018.

 

Brazil have a culture of having players have access and playing Futsal and beach football, usually paid for by the government or local authorities.

 

Spain and Italy etc all have facilities for kids to play at free of charge.

 

England eventually looked at what France did, then built 1 academy, which most of the country can’t access, and is usually closed to the public due to a select few using it, as well as the national team, and visiting teams.

McDonalds and Mars have both funded new facilities for grassroots football, but it’s usually provided to non-league clubs who don’t let the general public use it.

Our government will give grants to the people who own Goals, and other 5 aside pitches, but charge people a minimum of £50 to use them.

The same applies local leisure centres, all behind an expensive paywall.

Kids in the U.K. are left to use back alleys, local parks where the facilities are rotten, or play on patches of grass that have no ball games signs up and around it, with Dorris waiting to report kids playing football as she asks why Kids these days sit in all day playing FIFA.

 

This is why we have a lack of talent, and why we have won fuck all at a national level.

There isn’t a lack of talent at the moment, and England are pretty dominant these days at youth levels, and have come close to winning trophies with the full team.  I’d argue conservative management, not a lack of talent, cost them a Euros win at a minimum.

[TheBrownBottle]

13 hours ago, Astroblack said:

I can do whatever I want, mate. I support Newcastle but in Europe, I want English teams to win so England have a stronger chance of winning a major. The proof is there with Sevilla, Real and Barca, Milan in the early 2000s and their World Cup triumph in 2006 and Parma winning the Uefa cup in 1999 with a lot of those players in the 2006 WC winning team. 
 

I watch the Premier League week in, week out. I don’t watch La Liga or Seria A. I have an emotional attachment to PL sides, sorry, I just do. 

There is zero connection between European success and national team success.  Spanish, Italian and English sides have pretty much always dominated European football, but Germany is Europe’s most successful European national team.  When I was a kid, Italian teams were absolutely dominant, but Italy’s national team won nowt from 1982 (when I was born) to 2006 (when I was 24).  England’s club sides have been successful other than the post-Heysel period - but England haven’t won anything.  Spain’s national team was a joke for a long time, yet their clubs always won continental trophies.

 

English teams winning or losing in Europe has absolutely no impact on the national team whatsoever, because it doesn’t impact the conveyor belt of talent. 

[Astroblack]

6 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said:

There is zero connection between European success and national team success.  Spanish, Italian and English sides have pretty much always dominated European football, but Germany is Europe’s most successful European national team.  When I was a kid, Italian teams were absolutely dominant, but Italy’s national team won nowt from 1982 (when I was born) to 2006 (when I was 24).  England’s club sides have been successful other than the post-Heysel period - but England haven’t won anything.  Spain’s national team was a joke for a long time, yet their clubs always won continental trophies.

 

English teams winning or losing in Europe has absolutely no impact on the national team whatsoever, because it doesn’t impact the conveyor belt of talent. 

What about Spain’s period of dominance from 2008-2012 where they were made up of half of the Barcelona squad that had won two Champions Leagues and two semi finals?
 

2013 - Bayern vs Dortmund, 2014, Germany win the World Cup

 

2003 all Italian final, 2005 Milan in final, 2007, Milan in final - 2006 Italy win the World Cup. Gattuso, Pirlo, Cannavaro, Buffon all key contributors. 
 

2018 - we get to the semis and in 2019, we get an all England final where Harry Kane, Kieran Trippier, Jordan Henderson, Dele Alli, Danny Rose play in both campaigns. We’re also getting closer with this group of players.

 

England are notorious bottle jobs, right? If our players play in the big European fixtures, hopefully they’ll be able to overcome this mental hurdle. Rice for example has captained West Ham to a European trophy. He’s also now played in two European finals. England are getting closer and I think our players would benefit from Champions League nights. 
 

Either way, wouldn’t it be better wanting the English teams to do well as it opens up more spots for European contention? We missed out on Europe because the English teams performed poorly. Italy got nine European places while England got six! We should be in Europe this season! 

 

 

Edited 20 hours ago by Astroblack

[Slim]

 

[NobbySolano]

7 hours ago, Astroblack said:

What about Spain’s period of dominance from 2008-2012 where they were made up of half of the Barcelona squad that had won two Champions Leagues and two semi finals?
 

2013 - Bayern vs Dortmund, 2014, Germany win the World Cup

 

2003 all Italian final, 2005 Milan in final, 2007, Milan in final - 2006 Italy win the World Cup. Gattuso, Pirlo, Cannavaro, Buffon all key contributors. 
 

2018 - we get to the semis and in 2019, we get an all England final where Harry Kane, Kieran Trippier, Jordan Henderson, Dele Alli, Danny Rose play in both campaigns. We’re also getting closer with this group of players.

 

England are notorious bottle jobs, right? If our players play in the big European fixtures, hopefully they’ll be able to overcome this mental hurdle. Rice for example has captained West Ham to a European trophy. He’s also now played in two European finals. England are getting closer and I think our players would benefit from Champions League nights. 
 

Either way, wouldn’t it be better wanting the English teams to do well as it opens up more spots for European contention? We missed out on Europe because the English teams performed poorly. Italy got nine European places while England got six! We should be in Europe this season! 

 

 

 

 

I understand where you are coming from. You should dig a bit deeper into the connection between those country's club success and their national team success. 

 

There is a great book, the name currently escapes me, that talks about it. It's the system and the coaches of those club teams, building an identity, that then translated to country success. 

 

England/the fa in their wisdom have done nothing to build that identity. Look at the current (lack of) English coaches, bar Howe, and a lack of system and identity. Up until now with Southgate , England had no identity other than lot of talent doing their best individually.

 

In any case. Could care less about other English teams performance unless it benefits Newcastle. And I sincerely, nothing personal, hope England doesn't win anything internationally in my lifetime. Most insufferable fans around the world. Would rather see anyone else win it all.