Still still not worthy of a thread

[Decky]

The Dutch were brilliant in Dublin yesterday. Love the random Irish heads in there too, football is class in moments like this.

 

 

[joeyt]

Pogba failed a drugs test?

[Nobody]

Just now, joeyt said:

Pogba failed a drugs test?

Seems like it, aye. 

[Froggy]

 

[Nobody]

Well that's that then, case closed. 

[Eveready]

1 hour ago, Froggy said:

 

So the main accuser is clearly already strongly disliked by these 2 so you can probably discount anything they say about her.

 

I only skim read but one of them is basically saying she punched herself in her prosthetic tit?

 

Also no source, could very easily be made up, and very odd to have the conversation recorded in the first place.

 

Presumably the conversation was in Portuguese and translated, which it very confusing how an 'ot' for 'not' typo could occur.

 

If this was a court - pretty much everything in their conversation is hearsay regarding the initial accusations by Gabi and medical records backing up her account would significantly outweigh this conversation even if it were true.

[Froggy]

17 minutes ago, Eveready said:

So the main accuser is clearly already strongly disliked by these 2 so you can probably discount anything they say about her.

 

I only skim read but one of them is basically saying she punched herself in her prosthetic tit?

 

Also no source, could very easily be made up, and very odd to have the conversation recorded in the first place.

 

Presumably the conversation was in Portuguese and translated, which it very confusing how an 'ot' for 'not' typo could occur.

 

If this was a court - pretty much everything in their conversation is hearsay regarding the initial accusations by Gabi and medical records backing up her account would significantly outweigh this conversation even if it were true.

 

The woman in this phonecall is one of his accusers. She said she was offered money to speak negatively about Antony in the press. 

 

Also, it can't just easily be made up. United Stand would be sued to oblivion. It's obviously a legit phonecall. 

[GeordieDazzler]

 

[Eveready]

3 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

The woman in this phonecall is one of his accusers. She said she was offered money to speak negatively about Antony in the press. 

 

Also, it can't just easily be made up. United Stand would be sued to oblivion. It's obviously a legit phonecall. 

Yes.  One of the accusers.  Being innocent of one crime doesn't make you innocent of all.

 

This phonecall was after Gabi went public, so it's not surprising that tabloids would be calling up ex-girlfriend digging and offering money for a story that would get hits.

 

The worst offences certainly seem to be against Gabi, and there is absolutely nothing on that phonecall which would be admissible evidence in court against her claims.

 

I am admittedly assuming there is medical records of Gabi being treated for the headbutt and prosthetic surgery correction, but that is what the reports have stated and I have no reason to believe otherwise.

 

In my own - and a courts opinion - medical records are a far heavier weight of evidence than a hearsay phonecall involving one of the defendant's entourage.

[Froggy]

6 minutes ago, Eveready said:

Yes.  One of the accusers.  Being innocent of one crime doesn't make you innocent of all.

 

This phonecall was after Gabi went public, so it's not surprising that tabloids would be calling up ex-girlfriend digging and offering money for a story that would get hits.

 

The worst offences certainly seem to be against Gabi, and there is absolutely nothing on that phonecall which would be admissible evidence in court against her claims.

 

I am admittedly assuming there is medical records of Gabi being treated for the headbutt and prosthetic surgery correction, but that is what the reports have stated and I have no reason to believe otherwise.

 

In my own - and a courts opinion - medical records are a far heavier weight of evidence than a hearsay phonecall involving one of the defendant's entourage.

 

Antony also released screenshots today rubbishing this accusers claims. 

 

His screenshots today back up his interview in Brazil, so as of today he's the only one who has told any truth so far. 

 

It's another trial by social media. He could well be guilty, but he's taken a step today to show that one of his accusers has blatantly lied, yet the reaction from most is to still condemn him based on claims from an ex partner. 

 

Just find it quite harsh, and I don't even like the guy. 

[Eveready]

2 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

Antony also released screenshots today rubbishing this accusers claims. 

 

His screenshots today back up his interview in Brazil, so as of today he's the only one who has told any truth so far. 

 

It's another trial by social media. He could well be guilty, but he's taken a step today to show that one of his accusers has blatantly lied, yet the reaction from most is to still condemn him based on claims from an ex partner. 

 

Just find it quite harsh, and I don't even like the guy. 

Wasn't that the same person in the phonecall?  So it's still only one of the accusers that has any doubt.

 

Based on the evidence and her social media profile, I would say there is a reasonable chance that Ingrid was just jumping on the bandwagon against Antony.

 

But the idea that the press had it out for him and were going around trying to find more dirt on him was not the start of the story, that only happened after Gabi went public, and if you're a tabloid 'journalist' then your instant response is going to be to call ex-girlfriends trying to get a corroborating story which will inevitably require payment.

 

I understand your point to some extent about the other claims.  But if there is medical records for Gabi's claims, which the club could very well be privy to, and zero evidence against then I am very much inclined to take the position that he should be nowhere near a pitch until this is resolved.

 

I'm sure you're following the story more closely than I am - can you please provide some links showing evidence of Gabi's lies?  As you say Antony is the only one who has told any truth.

[Froggy]

11 minutes ago, Eveready said:

 

I'm sure you're following the story more closely than I am - can you please provide some links showing evidence of Gabi's lies?  As you say Antony is the only one who has told any truth.

 

We don't have anything about Gabi. Only her accusations. There's no proof for or against her claims. We don't know who's telling the truth there. 

 

We do know that Ingrid said she was meeting Antony solely for business, whereas Antony said it was a sexual, consensual meeting. He's released screenshots backing this up and proving what she said was a lie. So as of now, Antony is the only one who has said something that can be backed up. 

 

 

Ingrid is also friends with Gabi's friends. 

 

 

As you said, this is hearsay, but absolutely no reason to believe it isn't true as of now. 

 

I'm sure there will be more to come in the next few weeks.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by Froggy

[Eveready]

1 minute ago, Froggy said:

 

We don't have anything about Gabi. Only her accusations. There's no proof for or against her claims. We don't know who's telling the truth there. 

 

We do know that Ingrid said she was meeting Antony solely for business, whereas Antony said it was a sexual, consensual meeting. He's released screenshots backing this up and proving what she said was a lie. So as of now, Antony is the only one who has said something that can be backed up. 

 

 

Ingrid is also friends with Gabi's friends. 

 

 

As you said, this is hearsay, but absolutely no reason to believe it isn't true as of now. 

 

I'm sure there will be more to come in the next few weeks.

Ingrid's accusations concern me less, I've already stated I wouldn't be surprised if she was jumping on the bandwagon and her claims pale in comparison to Gabi's.

 

I don't say it's hearsay, the law does, and it means that we can completely discount what Ingrid says about Gabi because it would not be admissible evidence in court.

 

I agree that on the other instances he shouldn't be tried in the court of public opinion but you don't have corrective surgery without records.  She initially went to the police before going public who very likely would've told her not to make that kind of thing public to avoid hindering the investigation.

 

To me, that leaves the burden on Antony to prove his innocence in the Gabi case where he has offered absolutely nothing other than his word, and we know he would've put it in the public domain if he had anything to contest it like he has with the Ingrid situation.

[Froggy]

1 hour ago, Eveready said:

To me, that leaves the burden on Antony to prove his innocence in the Gabi case where he has offered absolutely nothing other than his word, and we know he would've put it in the public domain if he had anything to contest it like he has with the Ingrid situation.

 

The burden is never to prove innocence. That's such a dangerous precedent. Gabi has offered nothing but her word either. 

 

Obviously this can all change when more information comes out. 

[The Prophet]

Has he been charged with anything yet?

[Froggy]

2 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

Has he been charged with anything yet?

 

No. 

[The Prophet]

2 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

No. 

 

Doesn't seem like he has anything to answer yet then. It makes sense why you'd take him out the firing line though.

[andycap]

I see nicolas pepe has been released. Is he worth a look at? 

[Eveready]

43 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

The burden is never to prove innocence. That's such a dangerous precedent. Gabi has offered nothing but her word either. 

 

Obviously this can all change when more information comes out. 

I'm not saying he should instantly get sent to jail or get his contract cancelled but when we're talking about a public figure with strong accusations against them then a view has to be taken.

 

My view of it boils down pretty simply to if there is medical records of the injuries she claims I'm 99% sure he's guilty, if there's no medical records then I'm 99% sure he's innocent.  But, she has gone through the proper channels and not just directly posting everything on social media.  This in combination with the fact every single article I've read says she's had medical treatment for the headbutt and the punch in the tit has me at 80-90% chance that there probably is evidence from the medical records and shouldn't be playing.

[Flip]

2 minutes ago, Eveready said:

I'm not saying he should instantly get sent to jail or get his contract cancelled but when we're talking about a public figure with strong accusations against them then a view has to be taken.

 

My view of it boils down pretty simply to if there is medical records of the injuries she claims I'm 99% sure he's guilty, if there's no medical records then I'm 99% sure he's innocent.  But, she has gone through the proper channels and not just directly posting everything on social media.  This in combination with the fact every single article I've read says she's had medical treatment for the headbutt and the punch in the tit has me at 80-90% chance that there probably is evidence from the medical records and shouldn't be playing.

 Wait what? What are you on about? Medical records don’t prove if she did it to herself or not though. 

[54]

Ridiculous decision.

[Eveready]

4 minutes ago, Flip said:

 Wait what? What are you on about? Medical records don’t prove if she did it to herself or not though. 

Yeah.  I give it about a 1% chance she would've punched herself in the tit so hard she needed corrective surgery instead of giving herself a blackeye or something a little more normal, hence the 99% sure he's guilty if the medical records back it up.  The medical records are also likely to be able to tell how the injury was caused and if it was consistent with her claim.

[The Prophet]

8 minutes ago, Eveready said:

I'm not saying he should instantly get sent to jail or get his contract cancelled but when we're talking about a public figure with strong accusations against them then a view has to be taken.

 

My view of it boils down pretty simply to if there is medical records of the injuries she claims I'm 99% sure he's guilty, if there's no medical records then I'm 99% sure he's innocent.  But, she has gone through the proper channels and not just directly posting everything on social media.  This in combination with the fact every single article I've read says she's had medical treatment for the headbutt and the punch in the tit has me at 80-90% chance that there probably is evidence from the medical records and shouldn't be playing.

 

Are you advocating for actual trial by social media?

[Eveready]

5 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

Are you advocating for actual trial by social media?

What I'm saying is that with public figures you have to take a more nuanced view than the more normal view that you either suspend someone when they're charged or when they're found guilty in court.

 

I think there is likely medical records that are strong evidence for her case.

 

The timeline over the past couple of days has gone:

Brazilian national team drops Antony

Man Utd say no comment

Gabriela Cavallin urges Man Utd to drop Antony in the press

Man Utd drop Antony

 

Considering this, I think there's a reasonable chance her lawyers have shared medical records with Man Utd or they've at least seen them through some channel.

[The Prophet]

5 minutes ago, Eveready said:

What I'm saying is that with public figures you have to take a more nuanced view than the more normal view that you either suspend someone when they're charged or when they're found guilty in court.

 

I think there is likely medical records that are strong evidence for her case.

 

The timeline over the past couple of days has gone:

Brazilian national team drops Antony

Man Utd say no comment

Gabriela Cavallin urges Man Utd to drop Antony in the press

Man Utd drop Antony

 

Considering this, I think there's a reasonable chance her lawyers have shared medical records with Man Utd or they've at least seen them through some channel.

 

We have a justice system so we don't need to take any view at all

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by The Prophet