Beth Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 6 hours ago, Paullow said: There's 3 combined English places for the Europa and the Conference league, and in most years, if both cups were won by the top teams, European football would go down to 7th place. If we were going to get 5 Champions League places, and a Liverpool/Man U/Man C won the FA Cup, would 8th place definitely get into Europe (Conference), or would it still be 7th, and we lose a Europa League spot to make up for the extra CL spot? If it went down to 8th then I'd want the English clubs to do better to give us more of a chance of playing European football, but if there was still the same amount of combined European places for English clubs, i.e 7 max, then I'd prefer England not to get the 5th CL spot as it would hinder either Spurs or Villa, and not allow them to push on ahead, particularly the latter. Anyone know the criteria? If England gets the 5th CL spot then 8th would be good enough for the ECL, unless a team outside of the top eight wins the FA cup (highly unlikely). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timeEd32 Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 A West Ham win is also critical for England getting the extra CL place, which could trickle down to benefit us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paullow Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 4 hours ago, Beth said: If England gets the 5th CL spot then 8th would be good enough for the ECL, unless a team outside of the top eight wins the FA cup (highly unlikely). Is that actually confirmed, or more you assuming? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paullow Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 I guess at least 2 of Newcastle, Chelsea, West Ham and Brighton would miss out if it went down to 8th, but it would feel harder to not get into Europe than it would. 8/20 does feel too many, but if we got in via the backdoor, I wouldn't be complaining. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Posted March 13 Share Posted March 13 1 hour ago, Paullow said: I guess at least 2 of Newcastle, Chelsea, West Ham and Brighton would miss out if it went down to 8th, but it would feel harder to not get into Europe than it would. 8/20 does feel too many, but if we got in via the backdoor, I wouldn't be complaining. I think what I said is correct, although there may be some obscure outcome that would stop 8th getting ECL. That said, being in and even winning the ECL would be derided by most non NUFC fans. Basically on par with our Intertoto win. I await the outpouring of abuse......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 We've had 8 clubs competing in Europe this season due to West Ham winning the Conference League. SO there's precedent for that. 11 hours ago, Beth said: I think what I said is correct, although there may be some obscure outcome that would stop 8th getting ECL. That said, being in and even winning the ECL would be derided by most non NUFC fans. Basically on par with our Intertoto win. I await the outpouring of abuse......... No it wouldn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 17 hours ago, timeEd32 said: A West Ham win is also critical for England getting the extra CL place, which could trickle down to benefit us. I think I'd rather miss out on Europa if I had to watch West Ham lift another trophy. We need to win enough games to finish 7th, it's not that hard if we just have to finish about the Hammers and Brighton. If we don't then tough, we just write it off as a bad season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 2 minutes ago, TRon said: I think I'd rather miss out on Europa if I had to watch West Ham lift another trophy. We need to win enough games to finish 7th, it's not that hard if we just have to finish about the Hammers and Brighton. If we don't then tough, we just write it off as a bad season. He's just talking about West Ham beating the German side. Germany are #1 in co-efficients currently. Europa is Liverpool and Leverkusen to lose. By far the exceptional sides in the competition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodneyCisse Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 How’s tonight’s results looking for us getting those extra places? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 (edited) Good set of results tonight. All the English teams won, pity Qarabag couldn't hold on against Leverkusen. I think we'll be slight favourites to beat Germany to the second extra CL spot now, hopefully City get Dortmund in the next round. Edited March 14 by Beth Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timeEd32 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 Outstanding results for England, although Leverkusen is hilarious. Winning on aggregate 5-4 with three of their goals coming in added time and erasing 2-0 deficits in both. Outrageous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Zaius Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 So if England get the extra CL place, 7th is EL and 8th is ECL? Unless a team finishing below 8th reaches the FA Cup Final? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Zaius Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 Either way, Europa League feels like a proper trophy. Conference League is a bit meh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timeEd32 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 Just now, Doctor Zaius said: So if England get the extra CL place, 7th is EL and 8th is ECL? Unless a team finishing below 8th reaches the FA Cup Final? That’s the working assumption. In keeping with how the entire sport is run there doesn’t appear to be any definitive statement and all rules may be made on the spot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 18-20 pts needed for 7th, 15-17 pts needed for 8th, in my humble opinion of course. Assuming Gordon will be fit there is no reason why we can't achieve that. We'll be the bookies favourites in all our remaining games apart from Man U. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 1 hour ago, Doctor Zaius said: Either way, Europa League feels like a proper trophy. Conference League is a bit meh. I've been an advocate of it but if Villa stroll to the trophy, after West Ham won it last year, it does devalue the competition somewhat. If it's just a case of the Premier League's entry winning it every year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnNUFC Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 8 minutes ago, Yorkie said: I've been an advocate of it but if Villa stroll to the trophy, after West Ham won it last year, it does devalue the competition somewhat. If it's just a case of the Premier League's entry winning it every year. Think that's been clear since it started tbph. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 (edited) 36 minutes ago, HaydnNUFC said: Think that's been clear since it started tbph. It's the European equivalent of the PapaJohns trophy. The mackems won it a few years ago but even they don't really consider it a proper trophy. However that said, it would be great for the euro away day piss up element of our support. Edited March 15 by Beth Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Les Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 5 hours ago, Yorkie said: I've been an advocate of it but if Villa stroll to the trophy, after West Ham won it last year, it does devalue the competition somewhat. If it's just a case of the Premier League's entry winning it every year. Spurs and Leicester both tried and failed to win it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 38 minutes ago, Sir Les said: Spurs and Leicester both tried and failed to win it I don't think that's true of Spurs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 (edited) I like the Conference League. And yes any PL club in it has a great chance of winning it. For the likes of Villa and West Ham, it’s the only competition they are ever likely to be in where they will be favourites. Same for us - this decade at least. We’d have a bus parade if we won it. Of course it’s a serious cup. Edited March 15 by The College Dropout Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leffe186 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 On 13/03/2024 at 15:37, The College Dropout said: Arsenal have a CL level squad and were playing at home. No squad in the PL (except maybe Villa and Leceister a few seasons ago) is equipped to compete in Europe and the league bar the established top 6. West Ham did exceptionally well that season to get to the semi's in Europa and finish 7th. Yes and no. The Champions League is a very different kettle of fish from the Europa Conference. West Ham won every single game in the Conference last year - all the home and away legs, all the group matches - except one, drawing one leg of their Quarter-Final with Gent. It’s not remotely as competitive, there are just a lot of games. You saw the issues. You basically had to play your strongest possible team in every game in the CL. There are some Spurs fans (not many, but some) who are saying they would rather we miss out on the CL this season for that reason: they want a stronger squad before taking on the CL and the opportunity the Europa League affords to blood younger players and keep fringe players ticking over. Luck plays a significant part. Arsenal have had very few injuries so far despite so many games, while Man U had disastrous injuries even before the Group Stage started. Your draw for the CL was rough (but fun), Arsenal had PSV, Lens and Sevilla. Don’t get me wrong, it was a terrific achievement for West Ham. The more salient problem is that the competition from other PL sides is tough so the margin for error is small. That year West Ham got 7th there was a really big drop-off after the top five. That same points total the next year would have had them in 10th and out of Europe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 9 minutes ago, leffe186 said: Yes and no. The Champions League is a very different kettle of fish from the Europa Conference. West Ham won every single game in the Conference last year - all the home and away legs, all the group matches - except one, drawing one leg of their Quarter-Final with Gent. It’s not remotely as competitive, there are just a lot of games. You saw the issues. You basically had to play your strongest possible team in every game in the CL. There are some Spurs fans (not many, but some) who are saying they would rather we miss out on the CL this season for that reason: they want a stronger squad before taking on the CL and the opportunity the Europa League affords to blood younger players and keep fringe players ticking over. Luck plays a significant part. Arsenal have had very few injuries so far despite so many games, while Man U had disastrous injuries even before the Group Stage started. Your draw for the CL was rough (but fun), Arsenal had PSV, Lens and Sevilla. Don’t get me wrong, it was a terrific achievement for West Ham. The more salient problem is that the competition from other PL sides is tough so the margin for error is small. That year West Ham got 7th there was a really big drop-off after the top five. That same points total the next year would have had them in 10th and out of Europe. I agree with this. Also - that season West Ham was in the running for CL up until Jan/Feb iirc. Whenever the Europa got serious fell off but as you say, the top half was weak so it didn't really matter. Going out of Europe makes Brighton more competitive in the race for 7th. They don't have the squad for a deep European run. I'm not so worried for Spurs. You have the FFP headroom to get the 2-4 players you need to be able to better cope with CL football. It's just about Levy wanting to invest. A good run CL and some bad luck can reduce your points total 5-10 but that's always likely for how Levy runs the club/the finances. Similar to us, I thought if the top 6 got their act together, Villa do well and we fall off 5-10% due to injuries we could easily finish 8th or similar without much going wrong based on our squad. We've had bad injuries and a lot more has gone wrong than I expected so we've done even worse than I thought was likely. Still time to salvage it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timeEd32 Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 1. Italy, 17.714 2. Germany, 16.357 3. England, 16.250 4. France, 14.750 5. Spain, 14.187 England’s max score is now only slightly below Italy’s. It would all be decided if Leverkusen had gone out. The CL draw certainly makes things interesting. Two German semifinalists with no English teams would change everything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 How big is that lead from Italy in real terms? They've got nowt in the CL but 2 in the Europa. 1 in Conference. I fancy Liverpool and Villa wining their comps to be the difference maker. West Ham going super deep would be tremendous too. Arsenal and City can gtfo the CL asap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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