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Financial Fair Play / Profit & Sustainability - New APT Rules Approved by Premier League

Mattoon

by Mattoon
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SteV

SteV

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Ambitious clubs like Villa and us need expensive ticket prices because of FFP. Most of us are happy to leave SJP because of FFP.  That’s crazy. 

Fuck it, may as well just charge £500 a ticket then.

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Decky

Decky

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Posted

10 years ago you would have barely heard anyone talking about the finances in football beyond what their club has got to spend in the transfer window. Now its a daily, constant conversation. Its not just how much have we got to spend, everyone becomes amateur accountants every window to try and have any sort of idea of what is going on. PSR, FFP, whatever they want to call it is being discussed by fans, on Talk Sport etc every single day now to the point where its probably the most talked about thing in football, only surpassed for a few days if VAR happens to fuck up again. This is one of the biggest indications to me that it isn't working because if it did work we wouldn't be talking about it. 

 

That and the fact that half the league has either been charged with breaches or has had to swap players amongst each other to avoid penalties. If half the league has to fuck about like that then it isn't fucking working. When will the idiots in charge realise that and try and reform these daft fucking rules?

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Dr. TC

Dr. TC

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Stifler said:

We already have dynamic pricing here, they just disguise it under different category games.

But it's impossible to get a ticket if you're not a season ticket holder, which means by pure supply and demand they could charge far more. Just look at the Oasis tickets. 

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brummie

brummie

Posted
Posted

Since we imported a new CEO (different job title, though) who had a long history in turning around the finances of an

NBA franchise, but also alienating every fan there, we’ve started to do way better commercial deals, but at the same time

seen some fucking insane pandering to high ticket price customers -

corporates and GA+ as they call them   
 

they’ve spent the whole summer creating new lounges and corporate facilities - we now have an £8,000 season ticket if you fancy it - and putting in stuff like 150 quid match day tickets which include access to an all you can eat and drink facility. 
 

All this whilst turfing out long time season ticket holders from the better seats to turn them corporate and at the same time binning the plans to redevelop and enlarge the North Stand (high demand, fewer tickets, higher prices etc). 
 

So for three or four years we have had over 30,000 people in the season ticket waiting list and 30,000 actual season ticket holders. 
 

Only now because of all the above, we now actually have brought the number of ST holders down to 27,000 which obviously fortuitously creates 3,000

more GA+ seats. 
 

Off the pitch we have been excellent since the current owners came in, and this new guy, Chris Heck, wants to drive income to 400m in 5 years, and he probably will, but all the same, it is rampant at times. 
 

He is lucky he is doing this at a time we have an absolutely top level football management structure in Emery, Monchi and Vidagany and we are progressing hugely on the pitch. 
 

The fact he feels he has to do it though is very very disappointing. 

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Keegans Export

Keegans Export

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, Decky said:

10 years ago you would have barely heard anyone talking about the finances in football beyond what their club has got to spend in the transfer window. Now its a daily, constant conversation. Its not just how much have we got to spend, everyone becomes amateur accountants every window to try and have any sort of idea of what is going on. PSR, FFP, whatever they want to call it is being discussed by fans, on Talk Sport etc every single day now to the point where its probably the most talked about thing in football, only surpassed for a few days if VAR happens to fuck up again. This is one of the biggest indications to me that it isn't working because if it did work we wouldn't be talking about it. 

 

That and the fact that half the league has either been charged with breaches or has had to swap players amongst each other to avoid penalties. If half the league has to fuck about like that then it isn't fucking working. When will the idiots in charge realise that and try and reform these daft fucking rules?

It's at least in part because the limit (£105m/3yrs) hasn't changed but the wages and transfer fees have gone up astronomically. 

 

2014/15 you had players like Diego Costa and Fabregas going for roughly the same as Minteh did this summer. 

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SteV

SteV

Posted
Posted

Athletic article elaborating on what @brummie summarised:

 

Spoiler

Aston Villa refused a request from their fan advisory board (FAB) to cap the price of Champions League tickets with the cheapest adult entry now starting at £70.

The club are set to return to European football’s premier competition for the first time in 42 years having finished fourth in the Premier League last season.

Villa have four home games in the league phase of this season’s competition, starting against Bayern Munich on October 2, before hosting Bologna on October 22, Juventus on November 27, and Celtic on January 29.

The cheapest prices for adult season ticket (ST) holders start at £70 and go up to £82 depending on which area of the stadium they wish to sit, while non-ST holders will have to pay between £85 and £97 for tickets. For comparison, the cheapest Champions League final tickets at Wembley in June were £60.

Prices for fans aged under 18 start at £20 for ST holders (£30 for non-ST holders) and ranges to £97 (£82 for non-ST holders).

GO DEEPER

UEFA introduces away ticket price caps for Champions League games

Concession prices for those aged over 66 and between 18-21 have the same upper price limit as adults, with a small reduction in the lower price bracket (£65 and £70 for ST and non-ST holders respectively). Villa stated there would be no categorisation for each of the four games in the previous meeting with the club’s fan advisory board (FAB), meaning each fixture would be at the same price. This is in contrast to Premier League pricing, with the prices dictated by how high profile each match is.

In that meeting with FAB, with chief operating officer Ben Hatton in attendance, the advisory group made a request to cap Champions League prices at Category A Premier League prices. However, this was refused. President of business operations Chris Heck did not attend the meeting with the FAB saying they were “disappointed” by his absence. “Since this consultation group started eight years ago, Villa chief executive officer (or the equivalent position) have always found time to attend such timely meetings,” a note from the meeting read. “With the amount of transformation expected at Villa Park over the summer, it would have been a key time to communicate to supporters directly.”

Villa Park’s capacity is 42,650 (Neville Williams/Aston Villa FC via Getty Images)

Wednesday’s confirmation of the ticket prices has been met with criticism from supporters, having noted the cheaper ticketing pricing of other English clubs who will be competing in Europe’s blue-chip competition this season, such as Arsenal and Liverpool.

At the start of this season, Villa came under pressure after 900 supporters were moved out of their seats due to the club increasing the number of hospitality and corporate areas in the North, Doug Ellis and Trinity Road Stands. There were also issues with some of the toilets in the stadium during the first home game against Arsenal, with overflowing urinals flooding the floors, contributing to the unhappiness from some sections of the fanbase regarding the worsening experiences of matchdays.

24-25 CL ticket prices for English clubs

TEAMADULT HOME TICKET PRICE RANGE (£)

Arsenal

74.30 - 106.80*

Aston Villa

70 - 97

Liverpool

30 - 61

Man City

37.50 - 62.50

*Arsenal Champions League home tickets included in the club’s season ticket price.

Aston Villa Supporters Trust (AVST) are part of the FAB and issued a statement expressing their disappointing and their fears that the move will “alienate fans”.

“As part of the fans advisory board, the AVST met with the club towards the end of last season to discuss season ticket prices including the Champions League if we were to qualify, and made clear pricing should be no higher than that of a Category A game if we did,” a statement read.

“For the club to announce Champions League ticket prices well above this season’s Category A is extremely disappointing, especially given the recent match day experience with delays of over 30 minutes getting into the ground, issues with access to seating and toilet facilities.

Head coach Unai Emery has led Villa to Europe’s premier club competition for the first time in over four decades (Neville Williams/Aston Villa FC via Getty Images)

“When compared to other English clubs in the Champions League this year and indeed UEFA’s own away ticket price cap, today’s announcement is out of touch. Loyal Villa fans who’ve waited as long as 40 years to celebrate this momentous season are being punished and exploited at the expense of the club’s compliance to PSR, ESR and publicly known revenue generation targets.

ADVERTISEMENT

“The trust fears the club will alienate fans with these prices and urges the club to rethink ahead of the first home match against Bayern Munich in October.”

Villa have previously stated that growing costs have owed to the club needing to avoid profitability and sustainability rules (PSR) breaches, with increasing matchday revenue viewed as a key solution.

Before the start of the campaign and following consultation with FAB, Villa agreed to limit the price increase on an adult season ticket to five per cent, with all but one Premier League club freezing their prices.

Villa begin their Champions League campaign away to Young Boys on September 17.

 

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brummie

brummie

Posted
Posted (edited)

Also - people will pay those prices but it’s all so complicated and demanding these daysy. 
 

I am in my 50s. I’ve seen us play Juventus home in the European Cup (the greatest team I’ve ever seen play at our place). 
 

I’ve seen us win the European Cup let alone play in it. I’ve seen us play in the UEFA cup too. I’ve seen us win the league and four league cups. I’ve seen us do third division to champions of England and Europe and back to division two in 15 years. What an insane ride. 

 

I am very, very lucky to be old

enough to have experienced all that and at a time when the sport was reasonable and cheap (even accepting the increased risk of death or injury back then). 
 

i look at my nephews now, all teenagers, and I think, not only is the structure of the game with stuff like FFP rendering these things almost impossible, even when we do get the chance to have nice things again, they’re getting fleeced for it. They’ve no chance. 
 

Everything about football now is related to money / finance. Everything. 
 

Sport making you happy at a price you can afford, and just being what it is, without talking about predatory pricing or accounting rules, I don’t think that is ever coming back. And that’s depressing. 
 

Football is just disappearing up

its own arsehole. 

 

 

Edited by brummie

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Keegans Export

Keegans Export

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, brummie said:

Since we imported a new CEO (different job title, though) who had a long history in turning around the finances of an

NBA franchise, but also alienating every fan there, we’ve started to do way better commercial deals, but at the same time

seen some fucking insane pandering to high ticket price customers -

corporates and GA+ as they call them   
 

they’ve spent the whole summer creating new lounges and corporate facilities - we now have an £8,000 season ticket if you fancy it - and putting in stuff like 150 quid match day tickets which include access to an all you can eat and drink facility. 
 

All this whilst turfing out long time season ticket holders from the better seats to turn them corporate and at the same time binning the plans to redevelop and enlarge the North Stand (high demand, fewer tickets, higher prices etc). 
 

So for three or four years we have had over 30,000 people in the season ticket waiting list and 30,000 actual season ticket holders. 
 

Only now because of all the above, we now actually have brought the number of ST holders down to 27,000 which obviously fortuitously creates 3,000

more GA+ seats. 
 

Off the pitch we have been excellent since the current owners came in, and this new guy, Chris Heck, wants to drive income to 400m in 5 years, and he probably will, but all the same, it is rampant at times. 
 

He is lucky he is doing this at a time we have an absolutely top level football management structure in Emery, Monchi and Vidagany and we are progressing hugely on the pitch. 
 

The fact he feels he has to do it though is very very disappointing. 

We've had similar here. Who was it here who had been told he'd need to fork out £14k for two season tickets? 

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mondonewc

mondonewc

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Kid Icarus said:

Yeah, I know it's not unanimous like. That's why I said the general feeling rather than just saying everyone. :lol:

I would be shocked if that's the general feeling? And anyone who thinks that way is fucking nuts :) :)

Would 1,000,000% be on board with us doing what City and Chelsea did, as in buy every top player around as they were allowed to do. We've not won a thing in forever, I couldn't give a shit how we do it, just want to see us win something, the fact we are the richest club in the world and aren't even allowed to compete at the top levels is a pure wind-up!

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Decky

Decky

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, brummie said:

I’ve seen us win the European Cup let alone play in it. I’ve seen us play in the UEFA cup too. I’ve seen us win the league and four league cups. I’ve seen us do third division to champions of England and Europe and back to division two in 15 years. What an insane ride.

 

Yeah well have you ever seen your team lift the Teresa Herrera trophy? No, didn't think so. 

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Monters

Monters

Posted
Posted

Fuck me! If all they were checking as FMV then what a waste of time as Chelsea could easily claim fair market value at almost any price for a West London hotel, it's hardly as if they were selling an allotment in Pegswood for millions!

Surely the whole point was the ridiculous idea that you can sell something to yourself to make a profit 

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Scoot

Scoot

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

 

That's fine, but what's pissing me off more is we're not doing shit like this. We seem to be goody 2 shoeing along. 

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The College Dropout

The College Dropout

Posted
Posted

I think they have already passed a rule that means this would be banned from this season onwards - selling assets to sister companies. But it wasn’t banned at the time and the deal is FMV so tough titties. 
 

Again if there’s the will and enough resources to circumvent FFP, it’s possible. Chelsea prove it time and again.  

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Keegans Export

Keegans Export

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, The College Dropout said:

I think they have already passed a rule that means this would be banned from this season onwards - selling assets to sister companies. But it wasn’t banned at the time and the deal is FMV so tough titties. 
 

Again if there’s the will and enough resources to circumvent FFP, it’s possible. Chelsea prove it time and again.  

Appears not...

 

Quote

The Premier League voted on whether to ban the type of transactions to sister companies at their Annual General Meeting in June, but sources have told ESPN that only 11 clubs supported the proposal. A minimum of 14 votes was needed for the rule to change.

 

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