Financial Fair Play / Profit & Sustainability

[Guest]

https://x.com/LukeEdwardsTele/status/1769411757775138995?s=20

 

"Another new sponsorship deal will be announced before the end of the season i believe. Hopefully something big like training ground/kit. Playing friendlies abroad is useful but not budget changing. Owners are working hard on stuff but more needs to be done. They know that #NUFC"

[gbandit]

You’ve done yourself proud there Jack27

[ikri]

56 minutes ago, Jackie Broon said:

Eales has talked about possibly selling to free up FFP headroom, but that is a temporary measure that essentially brings forward future revenue growth, not something to grow revenue itself.

 

We'll certainly be doing that too but it won't necessarily be the obvious players.  Despite a lot of people looking at Minteh and wondering if he could do a job for us next season, I fully expect that he'll go out on loan again next season and then he'll be sold for 20-30m to a newly promoted team.  The same goes for Kuol.  We'll create FFP space by buying promising youth players, loaning them out to develop them before selling them for decent fees.

[Guest]

Just now, gbandit said:

You’ve done yourself proud there Jack27

I'm sure Rich et al will come in and properly embed it and make me look daft soon

[maze]

17 minutes ago, Gawalls said:

I’ve really enjoyed the championship this season to be honest, tried getting into rugby but the best thing about it is it’s 10 minutes shorter.

Any team you follow in particular, or just the general atmosphere?

[Miggys First Goal]

Have they started referring to FFP as PSR since it’s not fair in the slightest. 

[Scotty66]

My thoughts exactly. "Fair" means little old Luton could, if they were brought by a powerhouse, able to compete in spending with Man City. 

 

However it would take them about 10 years at least to even get the slightest bit close.

 

It's an absolute closed shop and how dare any other team even think about competing.

 

 

Edited March 17 by Scotty66

[Gawalls]

2 hours ago, maze said:

Any team you follow in particular, or just the general atmosphere?

Just the general atmosphere but would like to see Ipswich come up. I point the idea of a team where the money would make a massive difference to them.

[maze]

45 minutes ago, Gawalls said:

Just the general atmosphere but would like to see Ipswich come up. I point the idea of a team where the money would make a massive difference to them.

I can relate to that. If I remember correctly SBR managed them for many years Thanks for the tip! Might sign up for Championship next season

[Geordie_once_removed]

I live in Germany and my German team, Fortuna Düsseldorf, give me a pleasant relief from FFP. They are a bit of a YoYo club. A bit too big for the 2nd League a bit too small/shit for the first.  So generally every season has some drama. But crucially I think the 50+1 rule here keeps spending more conservative generally, so even when they go down or miss out on going up it's not a big deal.

[The Prophet]

8 hours ago, r0cafella said:

It’s based upon the issues I’ve outlined previously. 
 

Yes, we still have some low hanging fruit such as training ground and Training kit (I’m guessing stadium is a no go) but once we sign them deals the path to growing revenue will slow. We’ve had some great free hits with Adidas Sela and noon but they’ve all been signed now. 
 

The biggest brands want to be linked to the highest clubs and in order to be become one of the big boys we need success. We can’t obtain that consistently because we have a small budget it’s a vicious cycle. 
 

I don’t want to be negative but I’m yet to come across a theory which I believe is more realistic.

 

our growth model will be player trading and that’s fraught with its own dangers. 

 

Given our revenue is still growing at respectable pace and we've just got Adidas on board, it seems a bit premature to be declaring we're out of ideas.

[TheBrownBottle]

1 hour ago, Geordie_once_removed said:

I live in Germany and my German team, Fortuna Düsseldorf, give me a pleasant relief from FFP. They are a bit of a YoYo club. A bit too big for the 2nd League a bit too small/shit for the first.  So generally every season has some drama. But crucially I think the 50+1 rule here keeps spending more conservative generally, so even when they go down or miss out on going up it's not a big deal.

Germany is the model for broken modern football.  Bayern’s complete dominance is absolutely ludicrous, and FFP has enshrined their position.  

[TheBrownBottle]

48 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

Given our revenue is still growing at respectable pace and we've just got Adidas on board, it seems a bit premature to be declaring we're out of ideas.

Spurs’ revenue went up by over 20% last season, and they don’t have the low hanging fruit NUFC do.  Even if our revenues continued to grow at the same pace as last season it would take nearly a decade just to catch Spurs.

 

And we won’t see 40% growth year on year.  The 2023/24 accounts will likely show an increase of around 20%.

 

We’re halfway to Staveley’s five year mark, and it is a real struggle to see what they’re doing creatively to plug the gap. 

[The Prophet]

8 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Spurs’ revenue went up by over 20% last season, and they don’t have the low hanging fruit NUFC do.  Even if our revenues continued to grow at the same pace as last season it would take nearly a decade just to catch Spurs.

 

And we won’t see 40% growth year on year.  The 2023/24 accounts will likely show an increase of around 20%.

 

We’re halfway to Staveley’s five year mark, and it is a real struggle to see what they’re doing creatively to plug the gap. 

 

What was Staveley's five year mark? Completely forgot.

[TheBrownBottle]

4 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

 

What was Staveley's five year mark? Completely forgot.

‘Do we want to win the Premier League within five to ten years?  Yes’.  Takeover day.

 

Now, of course there is an extended timescale to that - but I would’ve expected to see the bare minimum (new training ground + sponsorship, academy etc) done to date.  Not a peep, which means that any benefits gets pushed further back.  I would’ve expected maximising all commercial income strands possible.  So far we’ve done the basics.  I would’ve expected plans for either a new stadium or significant improvement to the existing - diddly squat (yes, before anyone says, I know that the club is undertaking a feasibility study.  These don’t tend to take two and a half years).  
 

Superb management by Howe and some astute signings in year 1 made it look like this was all part of the plan.

[Turnbull2000]

You do start to wonder what PiF are now looking for in the club. Becoming a major player is possibly beyond them due to ever more severe restrictions, so maybe some modest improvements then sell up at a profit in 5-6 years? Spending £400 million on a stadium expansion and refurbishment or £700 million on a new 65,000 seater is not worthwhile under that scenario.

 

 

Edited March 17 by Turnbull2000

[The Prophet]

Perhaps you're right, at the same time they've been here two and a half years. It's not that long when you consider they purchased a shell of a club. They've already injected a fair bit of capital in, bought us a number of excellent players, fixed up the training ground, established and beefed up a large number of internal departments, substantially increased our commercial revenue, restructured the academy and scouting team, revitalised the women's team, etc. Personally I find it difficult to be too negative when I see us moving in the right direction. 

 

That said, it would be fascinating to know what they have in the pipeline and how far down the road stuff such as a new training/academy facility is.

[The Prophet]

13 minutes ago, Turnbull2000 said:

You do start to wonder what PiF are now looking for in the club. Becoming a major player is possibly beyond the club due to ever more severe restrictions, so maybe some modest improvements then sell up at a profit in 5-6 years? Spending £300 million on a stadium expansion and refurbishment or £700 million on a new 65,000 seater is not worthwhile under that scenario.

 

You could be right, but absolutely nothing that's been done or said has remotely suggested that.

[TheBrownBottle]

33 minutes ago, The Prophet said:

Perhaps you're right, at the same time they've been here two and a half years. It's not that long when you consider they purchased a shell of a club. They've already injected a fair bit of capital in, bought us a number of excellent players, fixed up the training ground, established and beefed up a large number of internal departments, substantially increased our commercial revenue, restructured the academy and scouting team, revitalised the women's team, etc. Personally I find it difficult to be too negative when I see us moving in the right direction. 

 

That said, it would be fascinating to know what they have in the pipeline and how far down the road stuff such as a new training/academy facility is.

Yeah, perfectly reasonable points.  
 

They’re all welcome improvements, and under other ownership my praise might have been more fulsome.  But we have the owners we have - and they’re the ones who made the bold statements; they set the expectations. 

[r0cafella]

2 hours ago, The Prophet said:

 

Given our revenue is still growing at respectable pace and we've just got Adidas on board, it seems a bit premature to be declaring we're out of ideas.

It’s not a question of being out of ideas, it’s a question of not being successful enough to warrant brands sponsoring us and not Liverpool for example. 
 

If you look at commercial deals across the league, big clubs get big money, the rest get scraps. 

[McDog]

21 minutes ago, r0cafella said:

It’s not a question of being out of ideas, it’s a question of not being successful enough to warrant brands sponsoring us and not Liverpool for example. 
 

If you look at commercial deals across the league, big clubs get big money, the rest get scraps. 

 

 

That's why that game in Paris was so fucking damn important. Got screwed is one view, didn't put it away is another but either way that was a big deal.

[mighty__mag]

2 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said:

‘Do we want to win the Premier League within five to ten years?  Yes’.  Takeover day.

 

Now, of course there is an extended timescale to that - but I would’ve expected to see the bare minimum (new training ground + sponsorship, academy etc) done to date.  Not a peep, which means that any benefits gets pushed further back.  I would’ve expected maximising all commercial income strands possible.  So far we’ve done the basics.  I would’ve expected plans for either a new stadium or significant improvement to the existing - diddly squat (yes, before anyone says, I know that the club is undertaking a feasibility study.  These don’t tend to take two and a half years).  
 

Superb management by Howe and some astute signings in year 1 made it look like this was all part of the plan.

 

Covid? Shave 2/3 years off, puts us back at the start.

 

 

Edited March 18 by mighty__mag

[TheBrownBottle]

54 minutes ago, mighty__mag said:

 

Covid? Shave 2/3 years off, puts us back at the start.

 

 

 

COVID was prior to the takeover

[macphisto]

5 hours ago, Turnbull2000 said:

You do start to wonder what PiF are now looking for in the club. Becoming a major player is possibly beyond them due to ever more severe restrictions, so maybe some modest improvements then sell up at a profit in 5-6 years? Spending £400 million on a stadium expansion and refurbishment or £700 million on a new 65,000 seater is not worthwhile under that scenario. 

 

 

 

Would anyone buy the club for much more than what PIF paid? The true value is in our potential so the question is whether FFP allows us to fulfil our potential? I'm confident we can but it will take time. 

[r0cafella]

7 minutes ago, macphisto said:

Would anyone buy the club for much more than what PIF paid? The true value is in our potential so the question is whether FFP allows us to fulfil our potential? I'm confident we can but it will take time. 

Pif got us for a great price by most valuation metrics.