Financial Fair Play / Profit & Sustainability

[Wolfcastle]

What an absolute load of shit they've created here. 10years ago if you'd said Villa fans were cock a hoop about selling their women's team to themselves to avoid financial breaches and punishment despite not being in any financial difficulty in any meaningful sense, and that it would advantage them over clubs that didn't do that and had no need to people would think they were in fever dream cos on no level, even allowing for idiocy, does that sound anything but ridiculous.

 

 

Edited 9 hours ago by Wolfcastle

[BrianSwan]

They need a league wide Financial Fair Play ruling on what can be spent, and not linked to income if they want to be fair.

 

The smaller clubs can naturally then put more money in to close the gap and spend their capital, whilst the top teams can work to bring down wages and fight back against player power.

[TheBrownBottle]

6 minutes ago, BrianSwan said:

They need a league wide Financial Fair Play ruling on what can be spent, and not linked to income if they want to be fair.

 

The smaller clubs can naturally then put more money in to close the gap and spend their capital, whilst the top teams can work to bring down wages and fight back against player power.

Agreed - if FFP is a thing, it should be to balance the league out, not to crystallise the existing hierarchy.  

[The Prophet]

46 minutes ago, gjohnson said:

We are literally watching our competion bend every financial rule going while we sit in the corner like goody little two shoes making things difficult for ourselves by chasing domestic players from clubs we know are never going to sell

 

To ne fair, I'd rather be in our financial position than Villa's.

[Shays Given Tim Flowers]

We just need a cap on player registrations (25) for players over 18 years of age, no more multi club model and all loans to include an option to buy. 

[Teslact]

What grates me with the selling the infrastructure to yourself is that we know how it ends, and it's not good. Look at Derby. The intent of PSR here is completely broken.

[TheBrownBottle]

1 hour ago, Teslact said:

What grates me with the selling the infrastructure to yourself is that we know how it ends, and it's not good. Look at Derby. The intent of PSR here is completely broken.

Yep - and there’s nothing to suggest that the rules are going anywhere.  Ultimately you do run out of assets to sell, and find that the club doesn’t actually own anything.  Sales of stadiums is the next step. 

[r0cafella]

5 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Yep - and there’s nothing to suggest that the rules are going anywhere.  Ultimately you do run out of assets to sell, and find that the club doesn’t actually own anything.  Sales of stadiums is the next step. 

It should also be noted all of these ffp workarounds are inflating the transfer market as well. 

 

If we or anyone isn't doing these things we in a worst position than you would initially think due to the second order affects. 

[BennyBlanco]

We know why our owners are being whiter than white when it comes to the old end of year balance sheet. They’ve a much bigger picture in mind than little old Newcastle, we were just their foot in the door. Fuck knows what their overall strategy for the club is (if there is one at all) but what’s certain is it’ll take an age to implement and reap the rewards from. 
 

Im not moaning like, I’d much prefer the situation we’re in now to Ashley but by Christ it would be nice to see us properly kick on and turbo charge this squad.

[TheBrownBottle]

The thoughts about the owners playing games with FFP need to stop tbh - it’s not going to happen.  If they’re serious about their stated ambitions, it’ll be done by the book - the stadium plans will tell us just how serious they are.  The talk of a multi-billion pound stadium just looks like pie in the sky at the moment. 

[r0cafella]

5 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

The thoughts about the owners playing games with FFP need to stop tbh - it’s not going to happen.  If they’re serious about their stated ambitions, it’ll be done by the book - the stadium plans will tell us just how serious they are.  The talk of a multi-billion pound stadium just looks like pie in the sky at the moment. 

#wait

[TheBrownBottle]

Just now, r0cafella said:

#wait

Happy to wait, but I’ve seen numbers bandied about on here like they’re fact

[oldtype]

3 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Agreed - if FFP is a thing, it should be to balance the league out, not to crystallise the existing hierarchy.  

 

It's been a long and winding road, but happy to see that you Brits are finally coming around to salary caps.

[TheBrownBottle]

1 minute ago, oldtype said:

 

It's been a long and winding road, but happy to see that you Brits are finally coming around to salary caps.

I suspect the PFA would have the PL in court in a heartbeat if they tried introducing a salary cap  

[oldtype]

3 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

I suspect the PFA would have the PL in court in a heartbeat if they tried introducing a salary cap  

 

It would be no different from PSR. Just run revenue numbers for the clubs the same way, but instead of setting a separate ceiling for each club, you add everything up and divide it by twenty.

 

Presto, there's your salary cap. 

 

 

Edited 5 hours ago by oldtype

[r0cafella]

1 minute ago, oldtype said:

 

It would be no different from PSR. Just run revenue numbers for the clubs the same way, but instead of setting a separate ceiling for each club, you add everything up and divide it by twenty.

 

Presto, there's your salary cap. 

 

 

 

Not so simply sadly, the PFA actually have an agreement with the premier league and the FA preventing this. 

 

Believe me, the owners of the clubs would love nothing more than a cap on how much they have to pay. 

 

Solutions are very easy but ultimately want happen because the members lack the will to implement any. 

[oldtype]

1 minute ago, r0cafella said:

Not so simply sadly, the PFA actually have an agreement with the premier league and the FA preventing this. 

 

Believe me, the owners of the clubs would love nothing more than a cap on how much they have to pay. 

 

Solutions are very easy but ultimately want happen because the members lack the will to implement any. 

I’m talking about what is fair rather than what is realistic.

But from a purely technical standpoint, there are plenty of ways to implement a salary cap where the players would not be making any less money in the aggregate.

[Pandamninator]

13 minutes ago, oldtype said:

I’m talking about what is fair rather than what is realistic.

But from a purely technical standpoint, there are plenty of ways to implement a salary cap where the players would not be making any less money in the aggregate.

Yep.

 

For anyone who follows the NBA, the owners have effectively snuck a hard cap into effect in all but name with the second apron nonsense.  The most hilarious/depressing part is they even hoodwinked the players association to ratify it in the last deal. 

 

If the Premier League owners put their mind to it, there would be nothing stopping them achieving the same outcome over time.

 

 

[r0cafella]

28 minutes ago, oldtype said:

I’m talking about what is fair rather than what is realistic.

But from a purely technical standpoint, there are plenty of ways to implement a salary cap where the players would not be making any less money in the aggregate.

Yeah I know what your saying and I agree. 

 

As I said coming up with measures to increase fairness is easy, the issue is the league has absolutely no will to do so. 

[TheBrownBottle]

43 minutes ago, Pandamninator said:

Yep.

 

For anyone who follows the NBA, the owners have effectively snuck a hard cap into effect in all but name with the second apron nonsense.  The most hilarious/depressing part is they even hoodwinked the players association to ratify it in the last deal. 

 

If the Premier League owners put their mind to it, there would be nothing stopping them achieving the same outcome over time.

 

 

The US sports have an advantage - they aren’t big enough outside of the US to provide any effective competition.  So if NBA players don’t like the deal they’re getting, what’s their options - do they go to play in Lithuania?  No-one will come close to the salaries that the NBA, NFL, MLB etc will pay

 

The PL could insert these rules and watch as all the players head to one of the many other leagues which don’t.  

[oldtype]

1 minute ago, TheBrownBottle said:

The US sports have an advantage - they aren’t big enough outside of the US to provide any effective competition.  So if NBA players don’t like the deal they’re getting, what’s their options - do they go to play in Lithuania?  No-one will come close to the salaries that the NBA, NFL, MLB etc will pay

 

The PL could insert these rules and watch as all the players head to one of the many other leagues which don’t.  

Again, a salary cap would not necessarily depress the wages of players as long as it’s implemented properly. You can build it so that the total spending power of the 20 PL clubs combined is more or less the same as it is now.

 

Also, there is already a league that can blow every PL team out of the water in terms of wages in Saudi Arabia, but that hasn’t led to some kind of mass exodus. I think we’re living in an era that has proven that the whole “any kind of spending limitations will result in top talent deserting the PL” theory is false.

[Harveys Barn]

I'd go super simple:

 

- Whatever the highest-spending club spent in a calendar year, is the cap for all clubs the following year.

 

*This allows for teams to at least aspire to catch up.

 

- if a club's debt exceeds X amount, they then come under 'sustainability' rules, ie something more like what the current rules are.

 

*This prevents clubs from using endless borrowing to try and catch up.

 

[et tu brute]

2 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said:

The thoughts about the owners playing games with FFP need to stop tbh - it’s not going to happen.  If they’re serious about their stated ambitions, it’ll be done by the book - the stadium plans will tell us just how serious they are.  The talk of a multi-billion pound stadium just looks like pie in the sky at the moment. 

Go on Custer get those horses ready for the charge 

[TheBrownBottle]

Just now, et tu brute said:

Go on Custer get those horses ready for the charge 

Still waiting on those commercial deals to come rolling in ETB  

[et tu brute]

2 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Still waiting on those commercial deals to come rolling in ETB  

Still waiting for APT to be resolved