Financial Fair Play / Profit & Sustainability

[Fezzle]

Just now, Ben said:

I can't see how fair market value can ever be challenged 

If we bid £40m for todibo, it's rejected and he signed for man utd for £25m I'd say that's a stone waller

[Ben]

1 minute ago, Fezzle said:

If we bid £40m for todibo, it's rejected and he signed for man utd for £25m I'd say that's a stone waller

Eh ?

[gbandit]

Sick to fucking death of this shit. The PL is killing itself in so many different ways right now, it’s remarkable to see

[duo]

Just now, gbandit said:

Sick to fucking death of this shit. The PL is killing itself in so many different ways right now, it’s remarkable to see

They have overcomplicated what needs to be just a simple rule - want to spend? provide proof of funds.  Have the money? fill ya boots. End of.

[Fezzle]

3 minutes ago, Pokerprince2004 said:

This financial expert has been saying we need to sell by June 30th for a few months now. Looks like we've got 72 hours 😬

 

 

It was always 30 June til Ashley added a COVID month and still filed them late. Us moving it back suggests it's the normal way. Given player contracts nigh on always run to that date surely any psr would follow that?

[madras]

Older folk will remember there is some form for this sort of benefitting certain clubs, Chris Waddles transfer to Spurs (fee decided by an independent tribunal) for a laughable £590,000.

[Fezzle]

3 minutes ago, Ben said:

Eh ?

You are talking about fair market value. Man utd is related to his club so if we offered more that should be the fair market value not what poxy deal they decide between themselves. How could you defend turning down an external bid for one your owner makes at a much lower fee? 🤣

[Jonas]

They're weirdly disproportionately hell bent on either massively holding clubs back or punishing them for things that until a few years ago nobody would have batted an eye-lid at.

The amount of legislature and how quickly they're coming up with it seems so unlike them

 

 

Edited Thursday at 19:14 by Jonas

[gjohnson]

This fmv stuff is garbage. If i recall basic economics in any way shape or form, the market is shaped by what people are willing to pay and how much demand there is for a certain product or service not what someone might have paid you in the past.

 

I used to pay £15 a month for electric, so in my view that's fair market value. Oddly my electric company disagrees. I should go to to the ombudsman and get them to change the rules

[Keegans Export]

22 minutes ago, Pokerprince2004 said:

This financial expert has been saying we need to sell by June 30th for a few months now. Looks like we've got 72 hours 😬

 

 

Doesn't make a difference when our accounting period is, the PL assess the PSR figures from 1st July to 30th June.

 

Does that "financial expert" think avoiding a PSR breach is as simple as going "Oh no, our accounting period runs until the end of July"...

 

 

Edited Thursday at 19:18 by Keegans Export

[Ben]

12 minutes ago, Fezzle said:

You are talking about fair market value. Man utd is related to his club so if we offered more that should be the fair market value not what poxy deal they decide between themselves. How could you defend turning down an external bid for one your owner makes at a much lower fee? 🤣

Arh OK, my issue with it is who judges that a transfer is fair market value ?

[Jaqen]

What even is fair market value? Chelsea spent £200m+ on Enzo and Caicedo. Man U paying £80m for Anthony. Who decides what the going rate is? 

[Fezzle]

Just now, Ben said:

Arh OK, my issue with it is who judges that a transfer is fair market value ?

Well I'd imagine in that case it's obvious. Clearly a murky area IE ASM when nobody else wanted him

 

[Fezzle]

Just now, Jaqen said:

What even is fair market value? Chelsea spent £200m+ on Enzo and Caicedo. Man U paying £80m for Anthony. Who decides what the going rate is? 

It's only related transfers though isn't it? None of them come remotely close to anything but terrible business 

[Pokerprince2004]

3 minutes ago, Keegans Export said:

Doesn't make a difference when our accounting period is, the PL assess the PSR figures from 1st July to 30th June.

 

Does that "financial expert" think avoiding a PSR breach is as simple as going "Oh no, our accounting period runs until the end of June"...

 

Reading the replies it seems moving the accounting date does effect PSR. Aston Villa moved it from May to June to give themselves an extra month apparently 

[Ben]

1 minute ago, Fezzle said:

Well I'd imagine in that case it's obvious. Clearly a murky area IE ASM when nobody else wanted him

 

Another example of a rule brought in to temper Newcastles spending power that is just unworkable 

[Fezzle]

Just now, Ben said:

Another example of a rule brought in to temper Newcastles spending power that is just unworkable 

Strangely ignored during city/savio surprisingly 

[Jonas]

4 minutes ago, gjohnson said:

This fmv stuff is garbage. If i recall basic economics in any way shape or form, the market is shaped by what people are willing to pay and how much demand there is for a certain product or service not what someone might have paid you in the past.

 

I used to pay £15 a month for electric, so in my view that's fair market value. Oddly my electric company disagrees. I should go to to the ombudsman and get them to change the rules

FMV should see the TV money reduced since they'll be paying for a league that no longer has an unlimited amount of clubs theoretically able to challenge and win it and prospectively only a big 3. No further superclubs, no changes and outlawed ambition.

[gjohnson]

1 minute ago, Jonas said:

FMV should see the TV money reduced since they'll be paying for a league that no longer has an unlimited amount of clubs theoretically able to challenge and win it and prospectively only a big 3. No further superclubs, no changes and outlawed ambition.

Not necessarily. Barring the odd upset most leagues only have a couple of teams that can or do win their domestic leagues.

 

Scotland...Rangers or Celtic without fail

Spain...R.Madrid or Barcelona with Atletico occasionally interfering

France...closed shop for PSG barring a massive balls up

Germany...as France barring Bayern having a shocker

Italys got a bit of variety now, but it's hard to get past Juventus or one of the Milans

Portugal has a few at the minute, but still the same candidates..Benfica, Porto, SP Lisbon

Netherlands...barring that one off Alkmaar season a while back it's always been Ajax, PSV or Feyenoord

[Upthemags]

1 minute ago, gjohnson said:

Not necessarily. Barring the odd upset most leagues only have a couple of teams that can or do win their domestic leagues.

 

Scotland...Rangers or Celtic without fail

Spain...R.Madrid or Barcelona with Atletico occasionally interfering

France...closed shop for PSG barring a massive balls up

Germany...as France barring Bayern having a shocker

Italys got a bit of variety now, but it's hard to get past Juventus or one of the Milans

Portugal has a few at the minute, but still the same candidates..Benfica, Porto, SP Lisbon

Netherlands...barring that one off Alkmaar season a while back it's always been Ajax, PSV or Feyenoord

Not really sure this is apropos - all the top-heavy leagues you listed have revenues that pale in comparison to the prem... I think it goes almost without saying that the more inequitable the league comes (ie, the more it starts to look like La Liga), the more its revenues will take a hit.

[Ben]

1 minute ago, Upthemags said:

Not really sure this is apropos - all the top-heavy leagues you listed have revenues that pale in comparison to the prem... I think it goes almost without saying that the more inequitable the league comes (ie, the more it starts to look like La Liga), the more its revenues will take a hit.

But do those leagues force smaller clubs to sell players to bigger clubs so they don't have points deductions 

[Keegans Export]

15 minutes ago, Pokerprince2004 said:

Reading the replies it seems moving the accounting date does effect PSR. Aston Villa moved it from May to June to give themselves an extra month apparently 

I don't think that's correct. They did move their accounting period to 30th June, but PSR is going to be assessed 1st July to 30th June regardless. 

 

We already know that clubs profit & loss is not the same as their PSR calculation. The club's accounts for P&L purposes can start/end whenever they like but 30th June is the cut-off for the PSR calculation. 

 

Looking at Companies House, every club I looked at originally had accounts ending 31st May and shifted it to 30th June at some point in the last five years or so. That suggests a simple tidying up exercise. Not a single one went beyond 30th June. 

[gjohnson]

More the point that even before these stupid rules, it's always been the way that there's a certain group of clubs that always win their leagues no matter which league or rules it is

[et tu brute]

I'd still be very surprised if we have went over the PSR restraints. If for some reason we have, then I think PIF will (and should) be asking some very serious questions. Still think it's a load of shit and media are scaremongering. 

[andycap]

I don't understand why the Premier league are trying there best to discipline clubs by not letting them trade with each other to get out of the mess there in. Surely they should welcome the plan.