Yankuba Minteh (now playing for Brighton & Hove Albion)

[Upthemags]

19 minutes ago, joeyt said:

 

I'd like to know what alternatives you're suggesting?

 

People keep saying this but we don't have the youngsters Villa and Chelsea have to sell

You don't get "alternatives" when you wait until a few hours before the deadline mate... That's why we were knocking on doors offering Anthony Gordon to his boyhood club after a fantastic season with us. The alternative was taking steps to remedy PSR issues beforehand, or transacting intelligently so we weren't in the mess in the first place (see Harvey Barnes transfer for 40 million, in a position in which we were already logjammed)

 

Not gonna keep making, and re-making, the same points. But if you think trying to firesale AG with a few minutes to go before the deadline is good policy, then cheers I guess

[joeyt]

6 minutes ago, Upthemags said:

You don't get "alternatives" when you wait until a few hours before the deadline mate... That's why we were knocking on doors offering Anthony Gordon to his boyhood club after a fantastic season with us. The alternative was taking steps to remedy PSR issues beforehand, or transacting intelligently so we weren't in the mess in the first place (see Harvey Barnes transfer for 40 million, in a position in which we were already logjammed)

 

Not gonna keep making, and re-making, the same points. But if you think trying to firesale AG with a few minutes to go before the deadline is good policy, then cheers I guess

 

I don't think anyone is saying selling Gordon would be a good strategy?

 

At least you've provided a different view though regarding not signing Barnes which is more than TCD is doing other than "we should have put a buy back clause in like Real Madrid do"

 

Regarding Barnes though this time last year he was a more established Prem player than Gordon was. And we needed a squad for our extra games

 

 

[The College Dropout]

43 minutes ago, Froggy said:

 

Mourinho did this to Schweinsteiger in 2016 and proceeded to win two trophies. Just saying.

I couldn’t remember who it was I heard it from and it must’ve been Schweinsteiger on the Overlap. I think I’ve heard a couple other players say it happened to them too. Neville was acting like he couldn’t believe it. I’ve definitely heard it happen to other footballers. He’s either acting or totally naive cos of his career at Man U.  

[The College Dropout]

2 minutes ago, joeyt said:

 

I don't think anyone is saying selling Gordon would be a good strategy?

 

At least you've provided a different view though regarding not signing Barnes which is more than TCD is doing other than "we should have put a buy back clause in like Real Madrid do"

 

Regarding Barnes though this time last year he was a more established Prem player than Gordon was. And we needed a squad for our extra games

 

 

I’ve suggested everything the excellent @Upthemags has and more actually.  
 

I think the club agrees with us. Which is why we’ve got Kelly at LB and not a £30m left back to compete with our other £30m left back.  And at the moment we don’t seem to be looking at £55m RWs unless we can sell someone. Because spending a lot of money without several strategies to get us out of trouble - is stupid and won’t be repeated. 

[Jaqen]

Should probably forward this thread to the club so the highly paid professionals don't make the same mistakes again and to teach Eddie how FFP works. 

[timeEd32]

10 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

I’ve suggested everything the excellent @Upthemags has and more actually.  
 

I think the club agrees with us. Which is why we’ve got Kelly at LB and not a £30m left back to compete with our other £30m left back.  And at the moment we don’t seem to be looking at £55m RWs unless we can sell someone. Because spending a lot of money without several strategies to get us out of trouble - is stupid and won’t be repeated. 

 

Kelly and Hall likely cost a very similar amount.

[NE27]

1 minute ago, Jaqen said:

Should probably forward this thread to the club so the highly paid professionals don't make the same mistakes again and to teach Eddie how FFP works. 

 

Also stop him dressing himself, as the tight shirt fiasco and now the dhgate trainers are seriously dragging our classiness levels down a peg or two.

[gdm]

4 hours ago, Upthemags said:

Only reason this debate is still carrying on is because some are pretending like the Minteh sale was some masterstroke from the club, when it was very obviously the result of a series of blunders.

 

We were a Liverpool email away from selling our young England international star until a prospect who quintupled his value agreed to a transfer to save us. I've said it a several times it does not reflect poorly on your fandom/loyalty to say the club was massively negligent in their handling of PSR. This topic is so played out though the thread really should be locked. Will only get worse once real matches start.

there should be an automatic ban for people that ask for threads to be locked because they don’t like what’s in it. It’s pathetic and childish. Be a big boy and just don’t read it

 

as for the post…what a lot of guesswork & bollocks passed off as fact

[The College Dropout]

2 minutes ago, timeEd32 said:

 

Kelly and Hall likely cost a very similar amount.

Is Kelly not free? And Hall £30m? Hall costs the flub about £9 per year and Hall £4m? Amortisation cost and wages.  
 

Highly paid professionals make mistakes all the time. See Boeing and err our political class.  

[Magdad]

10 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Is Kelly not free? And Hall £30m? Hall costs the flub about £9 per year and Hall £4m? Amortisation cost and wages.  
 

Highly paid professionals make mistakes all the time. See Boeing and err our political class.  

Are you sure you dropped out of college with maths like that? 

[The College Dropout]

1 minute ago, Magdad said:

Are you sure you dropped out of college with maths like that? 

6m x 5 year contract - 30m. I guess Hall earns around £3m per year give or take 50%. So £9m for a year on the books. 
 

Kelly free transfer. 3.5-4.5m in wages I guess. Maybe a signing on fee too. 
 

However you shake it Hall’s book value per year would be considerably higher than his medium term squad back up in Kelly. Which for a club with our revenue - is sensible.  

[TRon]

1 hour ago, Chris_R said:

 

That would make me less likely to move, not more likely. And massively so.

 

I'd not be helping out any club that treat me like that, I'd just run my contract down and leave for nothing as a "fuck you" to them.

 

He could still run his contract down, at this point I'd say it's more likely than not. So that will be a double fuck you to the club as we'll have sold Minteh anyway because he thought he'd have less obstacles to the first team there than at Newcastle.

 

 

Edited July 29 by TRon

[Unbelievable]

17 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

6m x 5 year contract - 30m. I guess Hall earns around £3m per year give or take 50%. So £9m for a year on the books. 
 

Kelly free transfer. 3.5-4.5m in wages I guess. Maybe a signing on fee too. 
 

However you shake it Hall’s book value per year would be considerably higher than his medium term squad back up in Kelly. Which for a club with our revenue - is sensible.  

Safe to assume Kelly's wages will be higher, and you're easily looking at a big signing on fee too. In reality Hall might be a bit more expensive over the duration of the contract, but not massively so. Then there is the potential residual/resale value to consider...

[timeEd32]

12 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

Is Kelly not free? And Hall £30m? Hall costs the flub about £9 per year and Hall £4m? Amortisation cost and wages.  
 

Highly paid professionals make mistakes all the time. See Boeing and err our political class.  

 

Kelly's wages have been published anywhere from £90k/wk to well north of £100k. There almost certainly would have been a sign-on bonus. I'd guess he costs at least £6-6.5m per year and quite possibly more.

 

Hall is £28m (not counting add-ons, which presumably haven't been triggered). Wages are a mystery (and the internet is definitely wrong), but I'd be surprised if we gave £60k/wk to an 18 year old prospect. I'd guess he's in the £7.5-8m range.

 

It's much closer than saying one was £30m and one was 'free.'

[tarie4]

1 hour ago, Upthemags said:

You don't get "alternatives" when you wait until a few hours before the deadline mate... That's why we were knocking on doors offering Anthony Gordon to his boyhood club after a fantastic season with us. The alternative was taking steps to remedy PSR issues beforehand, or transacting intelligently so we weren't in the mess in the first place (see Harvey Barnes transfer for 40 million, in a position in which we were already logjammed)

 

Not gonna keep making, and re-making, the same points. But if you think trying to firesale AG with a few minutes to go before the deadline is good policy, then cheers I guess

That's an interesting view, but like I said before, this argument is useless considering the current state of the club.

 

We have all our star players, we follow the PSR rules, and we don't need to replace anyone. We can only get better from here.

In reference to the ongoing discussion, I understand that the primary focus of your argument is the retention of Minteh as a valuable asset to the team like@The College Dropout In your perspective, you believe that acquiring Barnes was not essential, and to some degree, that is accurate. However, I would personally prefer to have Barnes in the current squad rather than Minteh. I believe most individuals would share this sentiment. What are your thoughts on this matter?

 

We are compliant with the PSR and have retained all of our star players. This is a significant achievement for the board, and while we can speculate about potential outcomes, the reality is that we are in a strong position at present. This is a major success and a testament to the skill and expertise of Staveley and the board.

[The College Dropout]

7 minutes ago, Unbelievable said:

Safe to assume Kelly's wages will be higher, and you're easily looking at a big signing on fee too. In reality Hall might be a bit more expensive over the duration of the contract, but not massively so. Then there is the potential residual/resale value to consider...

You think Kelly earns over £5m per year - £97k? I don't. I hope not tbh.

 

Anything higher than £80-90k is crazy IMO. And will likely mean we'll not be able to sell him for a fee.

 

I don't know about the signing-on fee going rate but that's at least a one-off payment.

 

In any case Kelly @ 100k per week is 5.2m per year. Any more as a base salary is crazy IMO because he'll be impossible to resale.

 

Hall's £27m fee is more than that for 1 year @ £5.6m. If Hall earns £50k @ 2.6m per year. That's £8.2m, still higher than your top end @timeEd32 and that's before any of the add-ons Chelsea apparently have.

 

5.2m for Kelly vs 8.2m for Hall seems about right.

 

If Kelly is going to cost the same as wonderkid from a top club in accounting numbers..... we might as well get another wonderkid from a top club. At least 1 has resale value and won't kill the clubs wage structure.

 

If Kelly earns £6m p/a how much should Botman get for an extension? 

 

Staveley maths might have Gordon on a 3.5 year contract, Kelly on 100k, Targett on 100k, Joelinton on 150k and a £60m bid for Olise on June 8th 2024. But I can't believe that to be true.

[Coffee_Johnny]

1 hour ago, Upthemags said:

You don't get "alternatives" when you wait until a few hours before the deadline mate... That's why we were knocking on doors offering Anthony Gordon to his boyhood club after a fantastic season with us. The alternative was taking steps to remedy PSR issues beforehand, or transacting intelligently so we weren't in the mess in the first place (see Harvey Barnes transfer for 40 million, in a position in which we were already logjammed)

 

Not gonna keep making, and re-making, the same points. But if you think trying to firesale AG with a few minutes to go before the deadline is good policy, then cheers I guess

Why do people persist in the belief that we touted Gordon to Liverpool? Is it solely Liverpool Echo/press? 

[Unbelievable]

There is a reason players run down their contracts (hint: $£¥€)

[tarie4]

5 hours ago, Upthemags said:

Only reason this debate is still carrying on is because some are pretending like the Minteh sale was some masterstroke from the club, when it was very obviously the result of a series of blunders.

 

We were a Liverpool email away from selling our young England international star until a prospect who quintupled his value agreed to a transfer to save us. I've said it a several times it does not reflect poorly on your fandom/loyalty to say the club was massively negligent in their handling of PSR. This topic is so played out though the thread really should be locked. Will only get worse once real matches start.

May I ask, what do you think the club could have done differently? I have asked. @The College Dropoutthe same thing but won't get a response. 

 

We had a deficit of approximately 60 million that needed to be addressed. If we exclude the acquisitions of Hall, Gordon, Barnes, Tino, and Tonali, which total around 50 million, we still require an additional 10 million. However, let us consider our current squad Without these players It would be unfair to solely criticize the acquisition of Barnes, as his value is only around 9 million, we would still have a shortfall of 50 million.

 

A possible solution could have been to refrain from making any purchases from Gordon to Hall, with the exception of Minteh. I believe that you and TCD are only addressing a superficial aspect of the issue. It would be more beneficial to identify which specific players should not have been acquired.

Unfortunately, discussing player sales is not relevant as there was a lack of interest in our players, despite our efforts to facilitate transfers.

 

To summarize, we faced a significant financial gap of 60 million. I kindly request your assistance and @The College Dropout in identifying potential solutions to address this deficit, while retaining Minteh in our squad.

[timeEd32]

28 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

You think Kelly earns over £5m per year - £97k? I don't. I hope not tbh.

 

Anything higher than £80-90k is crazy IMO. And will likely mean we'll not be able to sell him for a fee.

 

I don't know about the signing-on fee going rate but that's at least a one-off payment.

 

In any case Kelly @ 100k per week is 5.2m per year. Any more as a base salary is crazy IMO because he'll be impossible to resale.

 

Hall's £27m fee is more than that for 1 year @ £5.6m. If Hall earns £50k @ 2.6m per year. That's £8.2m, still higher than your top end @timeEd32 and that's before any of the add-ons Chelsea apparently have.

 

5.2m for Kelly vs 8.2m for Hall seems about right.

 

If Kelly is going to cost the same as wonderkid from a top club in accounting numbers..... we might as well get another wonderkid from a top club. At least 1 has resale value and won't kill the clubs wage structure.

 

If Kelly earns £6m p/a how much should Botman get for an extension? 

 

Staveley maths might have Gordon on a 3.5 year contract, Kelly on 100k, Targett on 100k, Joelinton on 150k and a £60m bid for Olise on June 8th 2024. But I can't believe that to be true.

 

Most reports have him at or over £100k/wk. Some sources go as high as £150k, which I don't believe. We'll amortise his bonus, so let's say it was £5m (this is a total guess, but at least one year's wages is a reasonable guess). There's almost no way he's less than £6m.

 

The difference between them is less than a Paul Dummett.

[huss9]

4 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

If reports are true.  I don’t think Howe fully understands FFP or at the very least is extremely loyal to his players. Which is perhaps why some feel like they can dig in their heels.  
 

It’s a dickhead thing to do but I’ve heard so many stories of clubs completely isolating players for no other reason than they want them to leave. Howe wouldn’t do that to Miggy.  
 

It’s bad. But I would get all Miggys stuff and move it to the U16s. Don’t even get to see the first team training staff or players. YOU HAVE TO GO TO SAUDI LAD! they’ll let you go wherever your agent can find you a spot in January. You don’t even have to go to Saudi personally.  But you gotta sign that contract.  

howay, man. really?

[nufc123]

7 minutes ago, timeEd32 said:

 

Some sources go as high as £150k

Didn't Chelsea blew us out of the deal offering Tosin 130?

[The College Dropout]

35 minutes ago, huss9 said:

howay, man. really?

If he was upset by the Anderson sale given the circumstances.  He must not understand the circumstances.  

[Super Duper Branko Strupar]

3 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

If he was upset by the Anderson sale given the circumstances.  He must not understand the circumstances.  

 

He can't be upset at losing a player he likes, despite our need to free up funds? 

[KaKa]

5 minutes ago, The College Dropout said:

If he was upset by the Anderson sale given the circumstances.  He must not understand the circumstances.  

 

Woah ... so the people upset about the Minteh sale, don't understand the circumstances?