Sandro Tonali

[Kimbo]

We don’t know how many civilians have been killed in occupied Ukraine, but whether a team gets banned has nothing to do with civilian deaths really. North Korea is the world’s biggest concentration camp but everyone seems happy for them to compete. The biggest slaughter of civilians is probably taking place in Sudan, but it’s not affecting their football.
 

Countries boycotting Russia was more about self-interest, Russia was invading a friendly European country and threatening the rest, so naturally Europe had a strong reaction to this, while most of the rest of the world shrugged. Israel would probably have the same response if it played in AFC qualifying, as they should be. So it seems to me the problem is letting countries compete in continents they don’t belong to. If Russia was being judged by another continent, they would never have got banned.

[The College Dropout]

22 minutes ago, Kimbo said:

We don’t know how many civilians have been killed in occupied Ukraine, but whether a team gets banned has nothing to do with civilian deaths really. North Korea is the world’s biggest concentration camp but everyone seems happy for them to compete. The biggest slaughter of civilians is probably taking place in Sudan, but it’s not affecting their football.
 

Countries boycotting Russia was more about self-interest, Russia was invading a friendly European country and threatening the rest, so naturally Europe had a strong reaction to this, while most of the rest of the world shrugged. Israel would probably have the same response if it played in AFC qualifying, as they should be. So it seems to me the problem is letting countries compete in continents they don’t belong to. If Russia was being judged by another continent, they would never have got banned.

Israel has been banned from whatever section it would otherwise have been because none of this is new. Israel being a UEFA country, has always been about whitewashing that country's PR - particularly within Europe.

 

Why are they in Eurovision?

[Optimistic Nut]

Will be an honour seeing him strike for 6 weeks to get a discounted move to Barcelona next summer.

[IndonesianToon]

Nice, so that's 4 of our 1st team player scored in international break.

Hopefully it continue to build up within the club

 

Anyway, agreed that Israel should not be included in euro area for wc qualificafion. 

They should play with their neighbor as anyone else. 

That way, at least they can learn how to be a good and respected neighbor in the region. 

[enthusiast]

1 hour ago, The College Dropout said:

Why are they in Eurovision?

because entry is open to any nation containing a member of the european broadcasting union, which is how you get algeria/morocco/libya etc. having entered in the past. 

 

in terms of football, federation affiliation only really shows up how shaky the definition of a continent is: are georgia and kazakhstan in europe? are suriname and guyana not in south america? why is australia in asia but new zealand isn't? there's loads of good reasons that israel shouldn't be playing in uefa competition: "not being in europe" isn't really one of them.

 

edit: 

 

 

Edited September 9, 2025 by enthusiast

[Disco]

 

[enthusiast]

wouldn't want to be an italian school/hospital/orphanage right about now

[Vinny Green Balls]

7 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

Russia are banned.

 

But a genocidal country literally not in or close to Europe is all-in.

Exactly.

 

But it is a country that identifies strongly with Europe, because the vast vast majority who have held the levers of power for the entirety of its inception, are the children and grandchildren of European settlers.

[TheBrownBottle]

8 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

Israel has been banned from whatever section it would otherwise have been because none of this is new. Israel being a UEFA country, has always been about whitewashing that country's PR - particularly within Europe.

 

Why are they in Eurovision?

 

 

3 hours ago, Vinny Green Balls said:

Exactly.

 

But it is a country that identifies strongly with Europe, because the vast vast majority who have held the levers of power for the entirety of its inception, are the children and grandchildren of European settlers.

Israel being part of UEFA rather than AFC was the result of AFC kicking them out in 1974, and has nothing to do with viewing themselves as a European country.

 

I’ve no issue with them being suspended by FIFA for their current human rights violations if this were to happen. 

[The College Dropout]

Their current human rights violations - aye.  

[Vinny Green Balls]

3 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

Their current human rights violations - aye.  

Current being since before 1948 of course.

[TheBrownBottle]

4 hours ago, The College Dropout said:

Their current human rights violations - aye.  

 

30 minutes ago, Vinny Green Balls said:

Current being since before 1948 of course.

Granted, though the Arab states which booted them from the AFC in 1974 hardly have a flawless record in that regard

[McDog]

Isn't there a fucking thread for this? I'd really prefer to talk football in the football forum. I mean, really.

[BlueStar]

On 09/09/2025 at 00:30, Kanj said:

Needs to be a Kappa one. Would be pure taste. 

 

Popper-pants shorts 

[Vinny Green Balls]

29 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

 

Granted, though the Arab states which booted them from the AFC in 1974 hardly have a flawless record in that regard

That's deflecting the point. Israel was founded on the the rubble of Palestinian villages they destroyed (between 400-700 according to Israel historians Ilan Pappe and Benny Morris). Since the original ethnic cleansing of 750,000 Palestinians in 47-48, they removed another 250,000 in 67, and have built more and more constricting settlements since. The very project resembles more what the American government and settlers did to the Native Americans, but this is the modern era. Of course the Arab States have absolutely horrible human rights track records, but the expulsion of many Jews in the Arab states was a result of the combination of Arab nationalist movements with the then recent ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians during the foundation of Israel, and again in 1967. There is also plenty of direct documentary evidence of early Israeli agent provocateurs operating in those countries to help accelerate the expulsion, including planting bombs. It was actually in the playbook to replace Arabs with Mizrahi labor so they could keep demographic supremacy. The only other example of ethnic cleansing that is anywhere near that level in the Arab states has been the persecution of the Kurds in Iraq, and the genocide of non-Arabs in Darfur (which resulted in millions being displaced and half a million killed).

 

They should have been in the football wilderness like they were from 74-94 many years ago. Their response to the 2nd Intifada, the continued settlement building, turning Palestinian enclaves into walled apartheid camps, the 2006 invasion of Lebanon, the 2007 -2023 blockade of Gaza, Operation Cast Lead (2008), the murder of activists on the 2010 flotilla, Operation Protective Edge (2014), the shooting of hundreds of peaceful protesters during the nonviolent march in 2018, the targeting of Al Jazeera offices in 2021...take your pick, and it would be worthy of banning from all sport. And now we are in full on genocide, and the weaponization of starvation. And now, Israel is committing the greatest atrocities that humans can inflict upon one another. They should be proscribed from every major international event at this point, not just international football. And this should have happened well before October 7th.

[Vinny Green Balls]

Anyway, good on Tonali for sinking these pricks.

[Roids]

22 hours ago, Kimbo said:

We don’t know how many civilians have been killed in occupied Ukraine, but whether a team gets banned has nothing to do with civilian deaths really. North Korea is the world’s biggest concentration camp but everyone seems happy for them to compete. The biggest slaughter of civilians is probably taking place in Sudan, but it’s not affecting their football.
 

Countries boycotting Russia was more about self-interest, Russia was invading a friendly European country and threatening the rest, so naturally Europe had a strong reaction to this, while most of the rest of the world shrugged. Israel would probably have the same response if it played in AFC qualifying, as they should be. So it seems to me the problem is letting countries compete in continents they don’t belong to. If Russia was being judged by another continent, they would never have got banned.

Western bias and hypocrisy is something else, the power of propaganda
NK is no where near to being the biggest concentration camp or even one
USA has the the number one spot by miles accounting for prison population, occupied Palestine is also one we can unfortunately observe, challenge yourself to think why you might think NK is (in absence of any evidence)

 

 

Edited September 10, 2025 by Roids

[Roids]

8 hours ago, McDog said:

Isn't there a fucking thread for this? I'd really prefer to talk football in the football forum. I mean, really.

We've had 3 months of dull transfer whining, a minor pivot to  reality shouldn't be so disconcerting

 

Besides, politics and sports are and have always been entwined, can't indulge in escapism indefinitely

 

 

Edited September 10, 2025 by Roids

[Kimbo]

22 minutes ago, Roids said:

Western bias and hypocrisy is something else, the power of propaganda
NK is no where near to being the biggest concentration camp or even one
USA has the the number one spot by miles accounting for prison population, occupied Palestine is also one we can unfortunately observe, challenge yourself to think why you might think NK is (in absence of any evidence)

 

 

 

There’s been plenty of testimony over the years from people that have defected, but I’m open to evidence that contradicts my view.

 

 

Edited September 10, 2025 by Kimbo

[Roids]

2 minutes ago, Kimbo said:

There’s been plenty of testimony over the years from people that have defected, but I’m open to evidence that contradicts my view.

 

 

 

I don't doubt people defect but it's nowhere being a concentration camp, it's a functioning country that's striving despite being heavily sanctioned for decaded by having the temerity to withstand Western occupation unlike their brothers and sisters in the South. 

I could show you videos upon videos of American citizens being oppressed by the state but most don't view them as the hell-ish country that they are 

[Kimbo]

1 minute ago, Roids said:

I don't doubt people defect but it's nowhere being a concentration camp, it's a functioning country that's striving despite being heavily sanctioned for decaded by having the temerity to withstand Western occupation unlike their brothers and sisters in the South. 

I could show you videos upon videos of American citizens being oppressed by the state but most don't view them as the hell-ish country that they are 

My impression of NK is that they have extreme restrictions on what people can do or what information they can access, the ability to come and go from the country, and of course all employment is strictly controlled by the state. Also punishments for breaking laws can involve torture and be multigenerational (ie your kids and grandkids can be punished as well). But I’m open to anything showing this is nonsense, there’s a lot we don’t know about NK.

[ponsaelius]

N-O shills for North Korea was not on my bingo today. 

[Roids]

12 minutes ago, Kimbo said:

My impression of NK is that they have extreme restrictions on what people can do or what information they can access, the ability to come and go from the country, and of course all employment is strictly controlled by the state. Also punishments for breaking laws can involve torture and be multigenerational (ie your kids and grandkids can be punished as well). But I’m open to anything showing this is nonsense, there’s a lot we don’t know about NK.

No different to any country. In the UK for instance, people protesting Palestine are labelled 'terrorists', imprisoned and have their lives ruined, what a free and liberated society.

You're right about the second half, most (myself included) know little about NK.

Most however will happily and uncritically accept all the propaganda they've been fed since birth.

[Roids]

14 minutes ago, ponsaelius said:

N-O shills for North Korea was not on my bingo today. 

Please list the top 10 murderous nations in the world over the last 10/50/100 years.

Let me know where NK ranks (and where your noble, morally good fav countries do in comparison)

[ponsaelius]

Nice and completely irrelevant straw man 

 

I met actual North Korean defectors when I lived in South Korea. I've probably read more first hand accounts than I have any other subject. Including from those that lived and were even born in labour camps.

 

I'm sure many people there live happy fulfilled lives just like anybody else in any other country in the world and they shouldn't be turned into caricatures just for having the misfortune of being born there - but it is a police state where the citizens have less freedom than anywhere else on the planet and are subject to some of the worst human rights abuses imaginable. 

 

 

Edited September 10, 2025 by ponsaelius