MrRaspberryJam Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 5 minutes ago, relámpago blanco said: That's because of fitness levels. Our team is ultra fit to play the way we do and you can't do that overnight. Yeah. With tonali being a few weeks behind given he’s at an international tournament then he’ll have some catching up to do. Plus, given Longstaff had an outstanding season last year I don’t think he’ll be immediately binned from the first xi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 Just now, MrRaspberryJam said: Yeah. With tonali being a few weeks behind given he’s at an international tournament then he’ll have some catching up to do. Plus, given Longstaff had an outstanding season last year I don’t think he’ll be immediately binned from the first xi Longstaff isn't going to be binned though. I don't know why you are using such dramatic language. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 11 minutes ago, pormag said: Isak was straight in for the first few games then got injured. Again through necessity. Once Wilson was back, he was eased back in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRaspberryJam Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 Just now, TRon said: Longstaff isn't going to be binned though. I don't know why you are using such dramatic language. binned/dropped/moved to the bench/used to make way for tonali. Sorry if the term binned got you a little aggravated there mate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackflap Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 Burn had been outstanding for us, hard to break up a settled CB partnership etc, plus I don't think we were as certain that Botman would be as much of a sure thing upgrade as we are with Tonali. Isak got thrown straight in because of Wilson's injury in fairness and I don't he would've been otherwise, but Wilson guarantees points with his goals so you're not going to sacrifice that as willingly to get a potentially better player into the side. The argument with Tonali and Longstaff is different IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
relámpago blanco Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 1 minute ago, jackflap said: Burn had been outstanding for us, hard to break up a settled CB partnership etc, plus I don't think we were as certain that Botman would be as much of a sure thing upgrade as we are with Tonali. Isak got thrown straight in because of Wilson's injury in fairness and I don't he would've been otherwise, but Wilson guarantees points with his goals so you're not going to sacrifice that as willingly to get a potentially better player into the side. The argument with Tonali and Longstaff is different IMO. I don't think Eddie treats any player different whether they cost 100m or free. Irrespective of the talent. If they can't fit in his system they won't start until they can. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRaspberryJam Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 2 minutes ago, jackflap said: Burn had been outstanding for us, hard to break up a settled CB partnership etc, plus I don't think we were as certain that Botman would be as much of a sure thing upgrade as we are with Tonali. Isak got thrown straight in because of Wilson's injury in fairness and I don't he would've been otherwise, but Wilson guarantees points with his goals so you're not going to sacrifice that as willingly to get a potentially better player into the side. The argument with Tonali and Longstaff is different IMO. surely the club knew botman was going to be a significant upgrade on what we had. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackflap Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 3 minutes ago, relámpago blanco said: I don't think Eddie treats any player different whether they cost 100m or free. Irrespective of the talent. If they can't fit in his system they won't start until they can. But Tonali is a perfect fit and a big upgrade. Couple of pre season friendlies will show that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pormag Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 Botman was one of the most sought after CB's in europe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackflap Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 11 minutes ago, MrRaspberryJam said: surely the club knew botman was going to be a significant upgrade on what we had. I'd say they were very hopeful but not certain. He came from a lesser league, going to the quickest in the world and wasn't renowned for his pace. Think we can all agree he's exceeded expectations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
relámpago blanco Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 (edited) 32 minutes ago, jackflap said: But Tonali is a perfect fit and a big upgrade. Couple of pre season friendlies will show that He is but I don't think Eddie gives a fuck. I honestly think he would sign prime Messi assess his fitness, familiarity with our system and if it wasn't perfect he would start Murphy over him. We are a team, a functioning unit. Edit: that's nothing against Murphy, I think we actually have a higher win% when he started this season. He has been great under Eddie and I think he'll be here for a while and I would like him to be. Edited June 25, 2023 by relámpago blanco Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnes23 Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 Think people are setting themselves up for disappointment if they expect Tonali to come straight into the team. Howe doesn't tend to operate that way from what we've seen so far, and at this point I have no qualms with it tbh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrRaspberryJam Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 1 minute ago, jackflap said: I'd say they were very hopeful but not certain. He came from a lesser league, going to the quickest in the world and wasn't renowned for his pace. Think we can all agree he's exceeded expectations. I’m pretty sure the club knew they were getting a significant upgrade like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 Just now, Barnes23 said: Think people are setting themselves up for disappointment if they expect Tonali to come straight into the team. Howe doesn't tend to operate that way from what we've seen so far, and at this point I have no qualms with it tbh I think he might and might not. Could easily see him playing a couple out of the first five. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaqen Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 He may well ease him in purely down to the difficult start to the season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
greydos Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 2 hours ago, madras said: "Best as the left hand no8" ? Haven't seen that anywhere like. Most of the sites fbref and the like have him central and he played mainly on the right for Italy the other night. In the title-winning year he played LCM mostly and did his best work there Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaydnNUFC Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 52 minutes ago, Barnes23 said: Think people are setting themselves up for disappointment if they expect Tonali to come straight into the team. Howe doesn't tend to operate that way from what we've seen so far, and at this point I have no qualms with it tbh Hmm, maybe. But he threw Isak straight in as soon as he was eligible. Only injury stopped him getting more minutes before Christmas. Botman also started 4 of the first 6 matches of last season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, jackflap said: And we play City, Liverpool, Brighton after Villa. If we don't start him against Villa at home they'd be tough games to throw him straight into. That's the point though, we have the hardest start in the league and we would be playing it without our £60m midfielder (and I assume whoever else we sign). Our main problem since Howe picked up form 2 seasons ago has been picking up points against the top sides as we're just short of quality. Edited June 25, 2023 by Hanshithispantz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alberto2005 Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 I don't mind Howe's approach of easing the players in, same time I believe players like Bruno and Botman would have looked good from the get go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 (edited) 34 minutes ago, greydos said: In the title-winning year he played LCM mostly and did his best work there I think you're getting this the wrong way around. He mainly played on the left side last season: And right the title winning season: Edited June 25, 2023 by Hanshithispantz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Hanshithispantz said: I think you're getting this the wrong way around. He mainly played on the left side last season: And right the title winning season: And even tgen was it a left/right split or fulfilling roles. Tonali playing the deeper playmaker role and Kessie more box to box ? Edited June 25, 2023 by madras Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crayola Kid Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 Hoping/expecting that we reach the position in terms of squad strength that we are able to take a Bruno (example) out of the team a few times in autumn and winter with the aim of being in good shape through the spring run in. Pep is a master at this, as has been Klopp. Get the numbers, up get the quality up, forget about a ‘first 11’, and use the fact that we can afford to have 15 or 16 top quality players. Great season ahead! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawalls Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 2 hours ago, jackflap said: Nah, Tonali will go straight in IMO, we're probably going to sign 3 first teamers this window, unlikely we'll drip feed all of them in. Every single signing since the initial ones that were essential to us staying up have been dropped in and he won’t be any different in my opinion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 2 minutes ago, Crayola Kid said: Hoping/expecting that we reach the position in terms of squad strength that we are able to take a Bruno (example) out of the team a few times in autumn and winter with the aim of being in good shape through the spring run in. Pep is a master at this, as has been Klopp. Get the numbers, up get the quality up, forget about a ‘first 11’, and use the fact that we can afford to have 15 or 16 top quality players. Great season ahead! I'd imagine most managers would be good at it if they had a squad where there isn't a huge drop off when you pull out fist choice players for a game or two. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crayola Kid Posted June 25, 2023 Share Posted June 25, 2023 1 minute ago, madras said: I'd imagine most managers would be good at it if they had a squad where there isn't a huge drop off when you pull out fist choice players for a game or two. Yes that’s fair but people are suggesting taking, as an example - Longstaff, out of the starting side as some kind of demotion or a significant move for day 1 of the season. We will hopefully be able to swap a few in and out during the busy periods in a way we haven’t managed before. Was clear to see we had a few tired players in certain games late last season, hopefully the plans this summer are not just to replace people but to increase our options week by week Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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