NUFC Transfer Rumours

[timeEd32]

4 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

I honestly think signing Barnes has triggered more criticism than if we’d signed nobody. It’s way over the top and it’s not even a big mistake  We’re obsessed about it. 

 

I’m never going to criticise signing two brilliant young players, so have to agree to disagree on that one. 

 

 

 

 

None of the summer 2023 signings were a mistake in a vacuum (bar maybe Tonali, but I have no interest in that debate), but our planning has been flawed since that summer. The kindest, most explainable version of events is that they were part of a longer term plan that went up in smoke when Ashworth left. But even that version relied on selling someone in June so ultimately there's no excuse for the financial mismanagement. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

1 minute ago, timeEd32 said:

 

None of the summer 2023 signings were a mistake in a vacuum (bar maybe Tonali, but I have no interest in that debate), but our planning has been flawed since that summer. The kindest, most explainable version of events is that they were part of a longer term plan that went up in smoke when Ashworth left. But even that version relied on selling someone in June so ultimately there's no excuse for the financial mismanagement. 

 

You mean because we nearly breached PSR? Fair point yeah, but that's more an argument that we should've sold someone (or just spent less) I suppose. 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

2 minutes ago, kingxlnc said:

Gordon is quite opinionated - like Bellamy - and Barnes seems more of a team player - so can imagine Gordon would prefer to optimise where he feels he plays best. But it might be to the detriment of the team. B-I-G has always performed well, the few times it has been played. 

Then subs, bringing Murphy and Almiron on against tired legs can also do the job - better than if they start. 

 

Yeah, it might be more about doing what Gordon wants and looking after him as much as anything else. 

[Kanji]

I’m not suprisied but am genuinely disturbed by the manic reaction to every bit of news, non news, and transfer window by our fan base these days. 

[TRon]

8 minutes ago, JEToon said:

 

Open to question statement that. 

 

A squad that becomes bloated and loaded with 5th, 6th, 7th choice signing targets likely ends up missing out on Europe often 

 

I think that can run for a window or two, but to still be resorting to Murphy or Miggy 3 years after Benitez left is disappointing. It's also inevitable that players who are top tier will want to play top tier football if we aren't staying ahead of the chasing pack.

[JEToon]

3 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

I think that can run for a window or two, but to still be resorting to Murphy or Miggy 3 years after Benitez left is disappointing. It's also inevitable that players who are top tier will want to play top tier football if we aren't staying ahead of the chasing pack.

 

I think that statement sounds great without context and in the form Miggy is in, but doesn't account for the form he was in, the PSR constraints placed on us to both make an addition in that area and also strip us of a player who would have played there 

 

I don't think top tier is our marker at the moment so don't have great concerns about missing out on players who are currently top tier, we haven't for the most part really bought players of that profile, we are a club looking to sign players projecting to be that and given the league we play in, wages we can offer and what the club threatens to be I am pretty confident we will be able to sign players of that profile for a fair while yet before they starting seeing us as a no go situation. 

 

 

Edited Friday at 13:47 by JEToon

[SUPERTOON]

8 minutes ago, kingxlnc said:

I honestly don't get why Gordon can't play there until January. Barnes is quality and I'd prefer Barnes goalscoring from the left prioritised, (and also Gordon's crossing ability from the right), rather than vice versa. 

Personally would be against moving Gordon. He was our best player last season and his numbers were brilliant. I’d prefer to play the best players in their best position.

[SUPERTOON]

5 minutes ago, Kanji said:

I’m not suprisied but am genuinely disturbed by the manic reaction to every bit of news, non news, and transfer window by our fan base these days. 

Pretty fair discussion on here imo.

[TRon]

Just now, JEToon said:

 

I think that statement sounds great without context and in the form Miggy is in, but doesn't account for the form he was in. 

 

I don't think top tier is our marker at the moment so don't have great concerns about missing out on players who are currently top tier, we haven't for the most part really bought players of that profile, we are a club looking to sign players projecting to be that and given the league we play in, wages we can offer and what the club threatens to be I am pretty confident we will be able to sign players of that profile for a fair while yet before they starting seeing us as a no go situation. 

 

I was thinking more of the players already here who might start getting itchy feet, like Isak or Bruno. I guess we just sell them at a (hopefully) hefty profit and rebuild if that happens.

[JEToon]

6 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

I was thinking more of the players already here who might start getting itchy feet, like Isak or Bruno. I guess we just sell them at a (hopefully) hefty profit and rebuild if that happens.

 

There is a pretty reasonable chance they will, it is going to a period of sustained success which will likely mean titles and CL finals before players will solely wish to play for us. It won't be a great shock if either want to move on to other things, they could have done that even if we had signed Olise, Guehi and Guler, it will take a long time before we are the absolute pinnacle of players careers 

 

 

 

Edited Friday at 13:54 by JEToon

[kingxlnc]

I can definitely see Isak moving on and trying elsewhere - he's more clinical, logical and focused on himself and his career. Bruno because of his emotions I think is quite loyal and also quite connected to the fans. I wouldn't want either of them to leave. 

Gordon is more like Isak but acts like a Bruno. I don't mind if he moves on personally, as good as he is, for Grealish-type money. 

Botman and Tonali owe us so can see another season or two at the very least from them. 

Joelinton, Willock, Longstaff, Almiron, Murphy, Trippier, Kelly, Krafth are all those who can attract double digit millions and therefore open to them leaving to free up funds. 

 

The squad actually does need a major refresh, like 4-5 players at least. 

 

[Monters]

8 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

I was thinking more of the players already here who might start getting itchy feet, like Isak or Bruno. I guess we just sell them at a (hopefully) hefty profit and rebuild if that happens.

If they are playing to their maximum and we miss out and they leave then I'll be disappointed but as you say hopefully the rebuild from the sales would lessen the blow but if they play all season in poor form then I would question if they really wanted to be here anyway or are they as good as we hope \ believe.

Personally from the two mentioned I think, if they are both at maximum then they can drag us to Europe and if it's the latter then they would be honest enough to hold their hands up and have another go the following year. Either way as talented as they are, not one player is bigger than the club

 

 

Edited Friday at 13:57 by Monters

[PauloGeordio]

12 minutes ago, Monters said:

If they are playing to their maximum and we miss out and they leave then I'll be disappointed but as you say hopefully the rebuild from the sales would lessen the blow but if they play all season in poor form then I would question if they really wanted to be here anyway or are they as good as we hope \ believe.

Personally from the two mentioned I think, if they are both at maximum then they can drag us to Europe and if it's the latter then they would be honest enough to hold their hands up and have another go the following year. Either way as talented as they are, not one player is bigger than the club

 

 

 

Easy Tiger. Bruuunno is the club! 

[timeEd32]

22 minutes ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

 

You mean because we nearly breached PSR? Fair point yeah, but that's more an argument that we should've sold someone (or just spent less) I suppose. 

 

We almost certainly should have spent less or we should have sold high on Wilson / Miggy (but I can completely understand why we didn't). There are many paths we could have taken and people will have different opinions about what would have been optimal, some of which are easier to see with hindsight, but the path we chose was flawed. It's why we had no money in January, why we had to panic sell in June and also take on additional costs in the process, it's why our budget this past summer was small, it's why we have mediocre options at RW, and it's why we have an imbalanced squad. This is why summer 2023 was ultimately a failure.

[The College Dropout]

6 hours ago, AyeDubbleYoo said:

I must have missed us turning our nose up at the foreign market

 

The whole spine of Botman, Bruno and Isak (plus Tonali) came from…? 

These are mammoth signings tbf both in terms of reputation and fee. Deluxe signings. What's the phrase for this type of signing again?

 

IMO, we shouldn't make those types of signings either or make them a season-on-season thing like we did with those 2.

 

I don't know why we pivoted from the Botman & Bruno approach but we did pivot.

3 hours ago, Erikse said:

 

Likewise we can play Gordon on the right and Barnes on the left. It's not ideal, but it's not exactly ideal to play some of the ones you mentioned out of position either, especially when we lack depth in several positions. I suppose the perfect scenario would've been to sign a player who was best at right wing, but could also cover left wing pretty well when needed.

 

 

 

But the manager refuses. He views them both as LWs, knowing he was also willing to play Isak, Willock, and Joelinton LW but unwilling to consistently play anyone bar Mutphy and Almiron at RW.

 

That didn't make any sense.

 

Injury crisis or injury crisis because they leave the team short. But the squad would've been more balanced with a RW for half the cost of Barnes and a CM for half the cost of Tonali and we'd have one of Minteh or Anderson on the books too.

 

 

You have to remember - nobody knew that spending spree would put us in position to. breach FFP. We didn't even know points deduction was a thing. We didn;'t even get going on making silly transfers until the last 9-10 days. We mismanaged our spending and sales 100%. Right up to June too.

 

 

Edited Friday at 14:23 by The College Dropout

[Kanji]

43 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

Pretty fair discussion on here imo.

I love discussion. I don’t necessarily love how the mood swings fuel slagging or posters being nasty to one another. 

[kingxlnc]

I did like the one purple per window / or summer strategy. 

 

It should be this type of formula every summer: 

 

1 elite, spine-level (future-proof position) player - (Tonali, Isak, Bruno, possibly Botman) (40-60m)

1 high-potential English young player (Tino, Hall, Gordon category) (30-40m)

1-2 good PL level player - (Barnes, Kelly, Pope, Targett level) (take advantage of frees and contract running down) (20-40m)

1-2 young players with potential to play ASAP (Osula, Minteh, Ashby) (12-25m)

2-3 academy players with promising futures (Sanusi, Sahar, Pivas, Kuol etc) (10m)

 

I don't mind letting 1 big player/2 mid players and 1-2 youngsters go each season to fund if required. (40-60m)

It freshens up the squad, and keeps improving by both raising the ceiling and the floor. 
 

[Ronson333]

1 hour ago, SUPERTOON said:

I’d argue RW was more of a priority than signing Barnes, Hall and Tino last summer mind. 

Hall and Tino were cracking signings imo, not just for now but also the next decade. But think we should have signed a right winger ahead of Barnes.

 

We need to look at the championship more, some cracking players there and not for stupid fees either.

[SUPERTOON]

38 minutes ago, Ronson333 said:

Hall and Tino were cracking signings imo, not just for now but also the next decade. But think we should have signed a right winger ahead of Barnes.

 

We need to look at the championship more, some cracking players there and not for stupid fees either.

Hall definitely, I think Tino has looked better at LB for us than at RB tbh.

[Mikky]

25 minutes ago, SUPERTOON said:

Hall definitely, I think Tino has looked better at LB for us than at RB tbh.

I made the exact comment about Tino a few weeks back aswell - the more I see him, the more I think he’s better a LB - I haven’t seen the final 3rd Tino that I saw at Southampton when he was really progressive, seems to lack composure at the moment 

[Upthemags]

3 hours ago, timeEd32 said:

 

None of the summer 2023 signings were a mistake in a vacuum (bar maybe Tonali, but I have no interest in that debate), but our planning has been flawed since that summer. The kindest, most explainable version of events is that they were part of a longer term plan that went up in smoke when Ashworth left. But even that version relied on selling someone in June so ultimately there's no excuse for the financial mismanagement. 

"None of our signings were a mistake" is frankly the wrong way of analyzing transfer business. The question we should be asking is, did we conduct intelligent transfer business? Did we invest smartly? Did we set ourselves up for success? Did we find bargains?

 

The answer to all of those is, uniformly, no. Did we need 100m worth two left wingers? Has Tino been a productive member of the side? Has Tonali lived up to his price tag? Has Osula contributed anything at all?

 

The only piece of business that I think reflects kindly on our strategy is Lewis Hall.

 

Where is our CDM? Our RW? Our cover for Isak? Our replacement for Longstaff? The list goes on. Looking at a player in a vacuum, eg, Barnes, and thinking yea hes a nice player, simply doesn't cut the mustard when it comes to appraising our success. As compared to our peers, the Brightons and Villas of the world, we've be roundly outclassed as far as incomings and outgoings. Hell, the club and fanbase nearly imploded when it received an offer for Trippier, and that's not even mentioning our selling of Elliot and Minteh to cover our asses when it became clear we had royally fucked up strategically.

 

Does no one any good when we pat each other on the back because Harvey Barnes scores a few screamers every season. We need a drastic facelift in the winter, or we'll have to start thinking about a rebuild come the summer when Isak dips out, and potentially others follow.

[Dr.Spaceman]

2 hours ago, Ronson333 said:

Hall and Tino were cracking signings imo, not just for now but also the next decade. But think we should have signed a right winger ahead of Barnes.

 

We need to look at the championship more, some cracking players there and not for stupid fees either.

 

What happened to Morgan Whittaker? Looked canny for two seasons but I haven't seen him this season. Stats suggest he's gone off the boil a little. I still hate the fact that Crystal Palace signed both Eze and Olise from the Championship for relatively little.

[Sibierski]

2 hours ago, kingxlnc said:

I did like the one purple per window / or summer strategy. 

 

It should be this type of formula every summer: 

 

1 elite, spine-level (future-proof position) player - (Tonali, Isak, Bruno, possibly Botman) (40-60m)

1 high-potential English young player (Tino, Hall, Gordon category) (30-40m)

1-2 good PL level player - (Barnes, Kelly, Pope, Targett level) (take advantage of frees and contract running down) (20-40m)

1-2 young players with potential to play ASAP (Osula, Minteh, Ashby) (12-25m)

2-3 academy players with promising futures (Sanusi, Sahar, Pivas, Kuol etc) (10m)

 

I don't mind letting 1 big player/2 mid players and 1-2 youngsters go each season to fund if required. (40-60m)

It freshens up the squad, and keeps improving by both raising the ceiling and the floor. 
 

Shouldn’t need to be bringing in that many players each window, and with such a high turnover  Would end up a disaster.

 

Main thing is slimming down squad, having quality concentrated in 15-16 core outfield players, with others made up of promising / raw youngsters of the 18-22 age. Allows you to keep your stars on competitive wages and a clear pathway for the promising talent over the bigger clubs. 
 

Just we can’t do the latter still, because squad is still bloated with likes of Hayden on books  And need to get rid of many more players. 

[Sibierski]

24 minutes ago, Dr.Spaceman said:

 

What happened to Morgan Whittaker? Looked canny for two seasons but I haven't seen him this season. Stats suggest he's gone off the boil a little. I still hate the fact that Crystal Palace signed both Eze and Olise from the Championship for relatively little.

Wayne Rooney.

[SUPERTOON]

27 minutes ago, Dr.Spaceman said:

 

What happened to Morgan Whittaker? Looked canny for two seasons but I haven't seen him this season. Stats suggest he's gone off the boil a little. I still hate the fact that Crystal Palace signed both Eze and Olise from the Championship for relatively little.

Jonathan Rowe would have been another worth a look as well.