CPL Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 2 minutes ago, NWMag said: One of the problems I feel, and it’s not exclusive to Hall but definitely affects him, is I don’t feel our team are very good at movement, plenty of times someone will get possession and there is no options to pass to, but no movement either. So when Hall gets the ball under pressure and has no one to really pass to, I’m not sure that’s his fault. I thought that a few times yesterday. When Tonali and Bruno have a bigger understanding, I'm hoping it will be much better. Joelinton tends to like to receive the ball with the defender right behind him rather than finding space. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzza Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 It is very simple; he is good with the ball and when we are moving forward, but he is a little bit suspect when defending and passing out under pressure. To be xpected with a 19 yr old. Just need to pick the games he will play i.e. not against fast and tricky wingers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibierski Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 9 hours ago, RobS said: It’s a tough one really, he needs to play to learn and develop and gain experience, but he will make mistakes while doing this still. He’s 19, got a great touch and a ton of talent, we need to cut him some slack at times I think this season. 100%. Take the good with the bad, because long term, he’s going to be such an asset. It’s great having a LB pop up around the box who’s still looking to cross / pass forward / shoot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prophet Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 On a positive note, I enjoy that he always wants or shows for the ball and will always try to progress it forward, perhaps a bit too eagerly at times. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groundhog63 Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 22 minutes ago, The Prophet said: On a positive note, I enjoy that he always wants or shows for the ball and will always try to progress it forward, perhaps a bit too eagerly at times. This. Looks hungry and confident. Not sure he's trying to shift the ball a bit faster than some of his colleagues can manage. With Botman/Schar along the back line he'd not be exposed as much as the ball would always be shifted quicker. Definitely needs to work on reading where his opponent is when we're out of possession. Side note.. I don't blame him for the goal much either. Yep he turned his back but he had 2 players to mark there. If anything Bruno got dragged into the melee and it was just sheer luck the ball bounced off that kids back into shit Jota. As was his slice 😂 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
huss9 Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 Just now, Groundhog63 said: This. Looks hungry and confident. Not sure he's trying to shift the ball a bit faster than some of his colleagues can manage. With Botman/Schar along the back line he'd not be exposed as much as the ball would always be shifted quicker. Definitely needs to work on reading where his opponent is when we're out of possession. Side note.. I don't blame him for the goal much either. Yep he turned his back but he had 2 players to mark there. If anything Bruno got dragged into the melee and it was just sheer luck the ball bounced off that kids back into shit Jota. As was his slice 😂 yeah bruno lost concentration and got dragged into an area he didnt need to be in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 (edited) 1 hour ago, KingArthur said: Burn's passes are to Hall, Krafth and Pope. It may be tactical, but almost everytime he gets the ball, he switches it to his left and plays it to Hall. Opponents of course scout this and it puts Hall under more pressure. Opponents can let Krafth and Burn keep the ball, they cannot do anything with it anyway. Difference between Botman/Schär and Burn is huge regarding passing. Burn does not take risks. I'm not seeing this at all tbh Not taking risks also doesn't mean you're not a good passer, Burn might not play long diagonal balls but he plays balls out wide, into midfield, and down the line, in all cases he's very neat and tidy and certainly not anything as daft as someone who 'can't pass it 5 yards' Edited August 29 by Kid Icarus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBG Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 So did we jump the gun when we earmarked him and Tino as England's starting right and left backs for the next 20 years? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Broon Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 The whole team has looked sloppy and disjointed, he had a poor first half last night but improved significantly in the second. Let's not jump on the back of youngest player in the team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoSelecta Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 (edited) I love Burn but how anyone can watch his passing and claim it’s decent is beyond me. It’s consistently the wrong pace and/or onto the wrong foot and that’s the passes he’s completing. Edited August 29 by BoSelecta Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 Just now, BoSelecta said: I love Burn but how anyone can watch his passing and claim it’s decent is beyond me. It’s consistently the wrong pace and/or onto the wrong the foot and that’s the passes he’s completing. What a load of shite Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smal Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 (edited) Burn completed 100% of his 46 passes last night. Lewis Hall had by far the most touches of the ball on the pitch, and completed 61/67 passes (91%). It was his crossing letting him down last night, strangely. Edited August 29 by Smal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geordie_once_removed Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 He really reminds me of Trippier in his playing style. I like him a lot, he's brave on the ball and tries the ambitious pass a lot. I think this will warp people's perception of him a little as naturally a number of these won't work out, with more experience he'll only get better at working out when to be brave and when to play it safe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 I can see the moments when Hall does something a bit careless or too brave and loses the ball, I think those will be concerning Howe more than anything defensive. Just a young lad though and personally I would like to see him play as much as possible. Kelly will really limit the attacks when he receives the ball higher up and has to pass back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HawK Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 12 minutes ago, Smal said: Burn completed 100% of his 46 passes last night. Lewis Hall had by far the most touches of the ball on the pitch, and completed 61/67 passes (91%). It was his crossing letting him down last night, strangely. Am I completely imagining the pass that Burn made through our midfield line that went on the ground directly to their midfielder and started a break for them ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoSelecta Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 17 minutes ago, Kid Icarus said: What a load of shite Can’t believe questioning Burn’s passing output is being deemed a load of shite - it’s quite clearly the weakest part of his game and below PL average for a CB. The bloke is an absolute unit in the air, defensively a monster, fantastic defender but his passing is weak. https://ibb.co/StZxBfn By your own admission he’s not attempting ambitious passes and he’s only completing 80%; that’s not anywhere near ‘decent’ in the premier league. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geogaddi Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 I was raving about him at the back end of last season and even in pre season he looked class , looked worryingly out of his depth against Southampton though and didn't think he was much better last night . He could get exploited easily against Spurs so would be tempted to start Kelly . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoSelecta Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 13 minutes ago, Geogaddi said: I was raving about him at the back end of last season and even in pre season he looked class , looked worryingly out of his depth against Southampton though and didn't think he was much better last night . He could get exploited easily against Spurs so would be tempted to start Kelly . Pretty much my thoughts. I think Howe will try and rotate between him and Kelly to get the best of both worlds - that might look like starting with Kelly to keep things solid and moving to Hall if we need a goal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groundhog63 Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 42 minutes ago, Smal said: Burn completed 100% of his 46 passes last night. Lewis Hall had by far the most touches of the ball on the pitch, and completed 61/67 passes (91%). It was his crossing letting him down last night, strangely. The problem, such as it is, with BDB is the time it takes to receive and proceed some of those passes. More so, perhaps, with Krafu. I do think, atm, our full backs have the ability for swift one touch football that the other 3 (Inc Pope) ain't got. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smal Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 20 minutes ago, BoSelecta said: Can’t believe questioning Burn’s passing output is being deemed a load of shite - it’s quite clearly the weakest part of his game and below PL average for a CB. The bloke is an absolute unit in the air, defensively a monster, fantastic defender but his passing is weak. https://ibb.co/StZxBfn By your own admission he’s not attempting ambitious passes and he’s only completing 80%; that’s not anywhere near ‘decent’ in the premier league. it’s not especially fair to use that data as the majority of it is taken from when he’s played full back, where you’d expect a lower pass completion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 The lad’s fee is the problem - he clearly isn’t worth anything like what we paid for him. There is plenty of potential there, and hopefully he’ll fulfill it. I can’t shake the thought that he is the sort of player you sign when you’ve broken into the big boys club, not when you’re trying to get there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Icarus Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 17 minutes ago, BoSelecta said: Can’t believe questioning Burn’s passing output is being deemed a load of shite - it’s quite clearly the weakest part of his game and below PL average for a CB. The bloke is an absolute unit in the air, defensively a monster, fantastic defender but his passing is weak. https://ibb.co/StZxBfn By your own admission he’s not attempting ambitious passes and he’s only completing 80%; that’s not anywhere near ‘decent’ in the premier league. Do you know how borderline it is between being in the bottom 20% and the top 10% for a centre back? 1 extra pass out of 10. 80.5% pass completion is absolutely decent like, particularly when he's been at fullback most of the time and the average for full backs in 78%. Now do our other defenders... Schar 82% Trippier 75% Botman 90% Livramento 85% Hall 80% Lascelles 85% Krafth 84% Bonus: Guehi 86% Saliba 90% Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingArthur Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 (edited) 1 hour ago, Kid Icarus said: I'm not seeing this at all tbh Not taking risks also doesn't mean you're not a good passer, Burn might not play long diagonal balls but he plays balls out wide, into midfield, and down the line, in all cases he's very neat and tidy and certainly not anything as daft as someone who 'can't pass it 5 yards' True, taking risks does not automatically mean you are a good passer, but in modern football centreback has to have the ability to play to tight spaces to midfielders, and/or in Schär's (and somewhat Botman's) case, the ability to switch play. Playing only the easy short pass towards FB or CB makes the possesion play predictable and slow. Burn very rarely plays the ball to midfield, that is the problem. That is why he might have 100 % passing success, but it leads to nothing. Yesterday you could see especially with Krafth that he does not want to take risks with the ball, and pretty much always chooses the simple pass sideways. He was afraid to even advance with the ball and try to lure the press towards him or step into midfield with possession. That puts us under more pressure if you can never play past the first pressing line. In Burn's case, he can pass the ball more than five yards, I am sure of it. He either is not willing to do it, or by Howe's choice is not doing it. For example, Barnes played very wide in the last 20 minutes, he certainly would have been the out ball from the back if Burn was willing or able to play the long diagonal. Yes, maybe he decides he doesn't want to try those, but then he isn't "a great passer". Regarding Hall: people forget how young he is. He will get better and already has gotten better. Against stronger teams we might see Kelly at LB just because Hall's weaknesses. Hall offers good threat offensively and will come good. Edited August 29 by KingArthur Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBrownBottle Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 Burn is definitely a better player than quite a few give him credit for. He’s also a much better LB than plenty do Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyeDubbleYoo Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 Some teams play far more passes out and around the defence as well. Of course you could argue that's because we don't have the personnel for it. FWIW I've never thought Burn is bad at passing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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