Brighton & Hove Albion 3-1 Newcastle United (02/09/23)

[The College Dropout]

1 hour ago, Magpie said:

This is what I've been saying since the final whistle. And losing my rag most times!!

 

Yes, we weren't at our best, nowhere fucking near, but they were unreal at times. Too many people massively underestimating them. 

I don't think they were especially brilliant. They did what they always want to do. We just did nothing to stop it. Tactically we got it wrong so they could do what they intended with relative ease. And it's a good way of playing and they have talented players.

[The Bonk]

I’m still more upset at the Liverpool loss than what happened at Brighton. We were pretty good up until their goal and you could see our confidence go to shit immediately after. We haven’t been great in the final third, have missed chances early in games, but that will change and I feel sorry for the team we unload on when it happens.

 

Good timing with the break for Howe and to reset for the Brentford match. 

[Conjo]

Last season whenever I watched analysis from Alcott, it always seemed like we had a good structure within the team when he went over the player's average positions. Compare last seasons average player position in our away game to Brighton to this one:

 

 

It does look like we were all over the place, which it felt like we were when watching.

 

My own analysis only stretches as far as "the one from last season looks nicer than the one from this weekend" though

[TRon]

1 hour ago, Kid Icarus said:

Not to ram it home or owt, but I would definitely make a point of watching Brighton in the match just as much as you watch us. We weren't bad just because we were bad, we were bad largely because they were brilliant. 

 

 

 

 

I guess I'm having a hard time accepting that we could look so inferior after two years of Howe, whereas they've changed their manager and sold off players, yet still seem to be purring like a Rolls Royce.

 

I will be interested to watch their future results to see if they do that to other teams, but I think they caught us on a bad day which made us less well equipped to deal with them. Joelinton not being fully fit, and Burn deputising for Botman.

[Vinny Green Balls]

3 hours ago, Dr Jinx said:

They shared the job at the same time. My suggestion is slightly different, you just have a different coach to come in and keep things fresh.

 

I’ll explain my line of thinking. When keeping much of the same squad, take Leeds back in the early 00’s as an example. George Graham was in there and had a well drilled defence but with a side with little flair. O’Leary came in and added that, yet the side didn’t lose the defensive fundamentals.

 

It takes about a season and a half for a squad to forget what a previous manager had implemented. Yet can pick up new idea fairly quickly.

 

It’s nothing new, Man Utd did this for years. SAF wasn’t a coach and didn’t do any coaching. He was a shop steward.. he ran everything aside from the playing bit. He gave more responsibility to coaches and took the credit for their work.

 

He also knew exactly when a refresh was needed. You have to give him that.

Good luck convincing any decent managers of this. SAF was always 100% the boss, and not told to leave for half a year to have a rethink. This is just crazy, dude.

[Kanji]

4 hours ago, Conjo said:

Last season whenever I watched analysis from Alcott, it always seemed like we had a good structure within the team when he went over the player's average positions. Compare last seasons average player position in our away game to Brighton to this one:

 

 

It does look like we were all over the place, which it felt like we were when watching.

 

My own analysis only stretches as far as "the one from last season looks nicer than the one from this weekend" though

Matty Targett’s positioning, wow. 

[The Prophet]

Where are you chaps getting those average player position maps from? Sofascore? 

 

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by The Prophet

[RobsonsWonderland]

4 hours ago, TRon said:

 

I guess I'm having a hard time accepting that we could look so inferior after two years of Howe, whereas they've changed their manager and sold off players, yet still seem to be purring like a Rolls Royce.

 

I will be interested to watch their future results to see if they do that to other teams, but I think they caught us on a bad day which made us less well equipped to deal with them. Joelinton not being fully fit, and Burn deputising for Botman.

To be fair they pulled west ham apart and lost by counter attacks.

 

Not sure if they learnt from that or we just didn't have the ability to breakaway

[Gallowgate Toon]

Don't think full backs being sat that deep is uncommon against Brighton. Think part of De Zerbi's plan is to leave wingers high and very wide to open up space. So you either leave them be and push up or mark them. Seems like Howe thought we could leave 4 on 4 and let the midfielders pull into wider spots to compensate.

[Teslact]

20 hours ago, Dr Jinx said:

If I was a club owner I’d have 2 managers who rotate every season. Slightly different attributes etc.. and let each one take time out from the game to up-skill after every second season. Howe would benefit massively from this. And would keep things fresh.

 

Flash backs to JJ Abrams handing over to Rian Johnson 

[Lish007]

Watched the highlights again. Brighton obviously played very well and we seemed lacklustre. Reminded me of Aston Villa away last season, completely overrun.. So as long as we bounce back I'm not too concerned.

 

The 3 goals though... All could have been prevented. I'd argue that we had the better chances overall but again, poor finishing just lets us down. We need to get Wilson and Barnes on the pitch to finish these opportunities. 

 

Luck needs to fall our way at some point and I'd argue that we've not had any luck on our side in the last 3 games. 

[Lush Vlad]

Only seen the brief highlights, as I was at wedding on Saturday.  I somehow feel a bit more positive after watching them.  I expected more of a bloodbath, to be honest.

 

The first goal was a clusterfuck of errors, Pope really having a howler and Tonali lazy as fuck with the attempted clearance and then not closing the shot down.

The second, the midfield and defence was non-existent and stuck in reverse. 

The third was awful from Schar, but also incredibly lucky for them.

 

I know from reading bits and pieces and speaking with mates.  We were off it again and the same midfield concerns were being flagged up.  Of course 3 minutes of highlights doesn't tell the whole story.  But we were extremely lucky to escape with a 0-0 there last season and were second best for 90 minutes then.  Ironically it was only the heroics of Pope and their wastefulness that kept them out, from memory.  They do dominate the game for large spells at home against most teams and just had a helping hand with our capitulation for all 3 of their goals. 

 

Yet again, though.  We just didn't take our chances when it mattered.  I suppose there are positives there in that we are still creating good openings.  Just a worry that we are still wasteful when we do get decent chances, especially when the game is in the balance at the time. 

 

I think the run of games coming up will show whether we are going the wrong way as a team or if it is just a mini-wobble off the back of the Liverpool defeat. 

[TRon]

15 hours ago, RobsonsWonderland said:

To be fair they pulled west ham apart and lost by counter attacks.

 

Not sure if they learnt from that or we just didn't have the ability to breakaway

 

Our goal also came from a long ball which released Wilson early for the counter.

 

I know it's not the way we want to set up, but if we aren't good enough to match Brighton pass for pass, then sometimes you have to look at how to attack other teams's weak areas. If they are pressing aggressively that means there will be space behind.

[Myleftboot]

10 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

Our goal also came from a long ball which released Wilson early for the counter.

 

I know it's not the way we want to set up, but if we aren't good enough to match Brighton pass for pass, then sometimes you have to look at how to attack other teams's weak areas. If they are pressing aggressively that means there will be space behind.

Wilson’s goal also came after Brighton had took 5 of their best players off.

[TRon]

5 minutes ago, Myleftboot said:

Wilson’s goal also came after Brighton had took 5 of their best players off.

 

Ok let's ignore the goal, fair enough the Brighton coach wasn't arsed at that point. When Brighton had their five best players on the pitch we couldn't get near them, and their aggressive press would still have left room in behind for the counter. Given they passed us off the park over 90 mins I think sitting deeper and hitting on the break would have been a better option.

[RobsonsWonderland]

I feel like this applies to us last year... We beat at lot of teams with our hard work and high press.

 

I'm not saying they did not work hard but against Brighton we needed everyone at 100% fitness.. not sure if any of our midfield three are quite there yet be it fitness, injury or getting used to the pace of the game.

 

We are then relying on other less talented players to play above themselves.. and sadly we know that didn't happen 

 

 

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by RobsonsWonderland

[madras]

4 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

Ok let's ignore the goal, fair enough the Brighton coach wasn't arsed at that point. When Brighton had their five best players on the pitch we couldn't get near them, and their aggressive press would still have left room in behind for the counter. Given they passed us off the park over 90 mins I think sitting deeper and hitting on the break would have been a better option.

Except we could and maybe should have been a goal or two up before they scored.

[RobsonsWonderland]

7 minutes ago, madras said:

Except we could and maybe should have been a goal or two up before they scored.

Would Wilson have scored them... 

[TRon]

3 minutes ago, madras said:

Except we could and maybe should have been a goal or two up before they scored.

 

Chances will come and go, I agree that it can make a difference if they are taken, but I am looking at the overall pattern of the game. Those chances came in the first 5 minutes, after that we were never at the races. They were far superior in just about every area of the pitch. They pressed better, they passed better and they finished better. If we could have competed in a more even manner I would have said fair enough, you win some you lose some.

[Kanji]

A more clinical team has 9 points and not 3 this season. 

[Dr Jinx]

On 04/09/2023 at 17:27, Vinny Green Balls said:

Good luck convincing any decent managers of this. SAF was always 100% the boss, and not told to leave for half a year to have a rethink. This is just crazy, dude.

SAF wasn’t a sucker for loyalty. Even if things were going pear shaped, I think Eddie Howe would stick with his tried and trusted staff.. it’s commendable and I cannot for a second fault him as a person but I just can’t see him getting in any way mean or ruthless when it’s a true requirement of the job.

 

He’s far too polite to be a cunt.

 

The problem is that half decent managers are rare.. there’s fuck all of them. You have 3 or 4 truly great managers and then a handful of best of the rest. Eddie is that tier.. he’s got potential to grow but I don’t think he has the imagination to try something so new that it’s almost impossible to play against (aka Pep)

 

So the tactics and subs will get more and more predictable and the results will more often become poor. It’s the way I see it going. Something needs to change.. whether it’s a new coach coming in idk ?‍♂️

 

I really want to be wrong.

[Vinny Green Balls]

57 minutes ago, Dr Jinx said:

SAF wasn’t a sucker for loyalty. Even if things were going pear shaped, I think Eddie Howe would stick with his tried and trusted staff.. it’s commendable and I cannot for a second fault him as a person but I just can’t see him getting in any way mean or ruthless when it’s a true requirement of the job.

 

He’s far too polite to be a cunt.

 

The problem is that half decent managers are rare.. there’s fuck all of them. You have 3 or 4 truly great managers and then a handful of best of the rest. Eddie is that tier.. he’s got potential to grow but I don’t think he has the imagination to try something so new that it’s almost impossible to play against (aka Pep)

 

So the tactics and subs will get more and more predictable and the results will more often become poor. It’s the way I see it going. Something needs to change.. whether it’s a new coach coming in idk ?‍♂️

 

I really want to be wrong.

Your initial comment about trying not to overreact is utterly trumped  by this impressive overreaction after 4 games of the new season, the prior one being one where he somehow got us into the champions league. Wood for the trees and all that.

[Groundhog63]

8 hours ago, Vinny Green Balls said:

Your initial comment about trying not to overreact is utterly trumped  by this impressive overreaction after 4 games of the new season, the prior one being one where he somehow got us into the champions league. Wood for the trees and all that.

Ffs don't mention Wood ?

[Lish007]

9 hours ago, Dr Jinx said:

SAF wasn’t a sucker for loyalty. Even if things were going pear shaped, I think Eddie Howe would stick with his tried and trusted staff.. it’s commendable and I cannot for a second fault him as a person but I just can’t see him getting in any way mean or ruthless when it’s a true requirement of the job.

 

He’s far too polite to be a cunt.

 

The problem is that half decent managers are rare.. there’s fuck all of them. You have 3 or 4 truly great managers and then a handful of best of the rest. Eddie is that tier.. he’s got potential to grow but I don’t think he has the imagination to try something so new that it’s almost impossible to play against (aka Pep)

 

So the tactics and subs will get more and more predictable and the results will more often become poor. It’s the way I see it going. Something needs to change.. whether it’s a new coach coming in idk ?‍♂️

 

I really want to be wrong.

How is he not ruthless? 

 

- Pope came in and he immediately replaced Dubravka, no questions asked. 

 

- Ryan Frazer demoted to the u21s.

 

- Almiron out of starting 11, Murphy in. 

 

- Switching Wilson in and Isak in when on a bad scoring run. 

 

- Hauling off Tonali at 55 mins against Brighton. 

 

- Lacelles, our CAPTAIN, not getting a look in the starting line up. 

 

We are in the early stages, we are not yet an elite team. I haven't seen any signs that Eddie is not ruthless when he has to be, he just doesn't throw his players under a bus like ETH. Which, IMO, is bad for morale. Even though we've bought some elite personell now, we've still got mediocre players playing above their level so it's not going to go swimmingly all the time. 

 

And I'm sorry but even if Bruno is off form, who the fuck are you gonna replace him with? We would almost certainly lose without him, it's a good fact that last season we won more games with him and lost most without. Until Eddie Howe has elite players all over the pitch, I'll judge him then.